9 ms·

I'm skeptical of claims that developers are underpaid. Maybe I feel differently about this because I'm not in a major tech hub and am not faced with the prospec

by nilkn 10y ago

I'm skeptical of claims that developers are underpaid. Maybe I feel differently about this because I'm not in a major tech hub and am not faced with the prospect of buying a multimillion dollar cottage, but when I compare my life as a software developer to that of more or less anyone else I know, including doctors and lawyers, I struggle to find a single person who seems to have a more comfortable life than me. I'm not the highest paid person I know, of course. My low six-figure income can't compete with $300k+ salaries that many surgeons get. I couldn't afford the $1.2M Mediterranean mansion that my dentist lives in. And I'll never get the sort of pay package that big law firm partners can command. But I'm not performing life-altering surgery. I didn't even have to go to medical school, let alone complete a residency. I didn't have to start up my own dental practice. And I'm not in my hypothetical dental practice every Saturday morning at 8AM taking care of patients who couldn't make it during the week or couldn't afford to take off work. I never had to go to law school. I didn't have to pass a single licensing exam. I took out no loans to get to where I am. And I was never worked 80+ hours a week as a young associate. I worked less than these people to get to where I am, and I continue to work less than them. My work is easier than theirs too. It's less stressful. Even if a problem does consume me for days, including outside of work, it's just not that big of a deal. I started making this income when these other folks were doing nothing but accruing debt. My lifetime earnings won't be all that different from theirs because I got such a tremendous head start. If I look at friends who are not in any of the above three professions, not a single person comes to mind who makes as much money as I do. Many make half as much as I do but have much more stressful jobs, fewer perks, etc. And yet apparently I'm underpaid. I don't buy it.

icelancer 10y ago
Underpaid is an interesting term, I guess. When you think about it, software (in its many forms) isn't like retail or hard goods; it can be sold - usually - an infinite amount of times. The upside is massive since all hard overhead is eliminated. Where then should that overhead go? To management? It's all about ratios, of course. If the owners/management of a company are grossly overpaid in comparison to the workers who produce - especially if physical overhead is nearly eliminated - then yes, developers are indeed underpaid. And I would posit this is true in many areas of software development. Perhaps not your situation, but overall? I buy it.
- nilkn 10y ago
  I will admit that my situation may be more unique than I realize. After all, there are vastly more software companies out there than I could ever work at, so my own experiences can never be more than mere anecdata, no matter how much I'd like to extrapolate from them. And I've only ever worked at small companies, so a relatively tiny number of developers have also worked at the same places as me. This is in stark contrast to huge corporations like Google and Amazon, where I could at least extrapolate my experience to thousands of other employees at the same company. I have not had the sense at my own jobs that the upper management was overcompensated. I can't prove this of course as I didn't and don't have access to the company's financial statements and bank accounts, but the norm has seemed to be to reinvest profits in the company in order to remain competitive. It's worth pointing out that I've only (so far) worked at companies that have been self-sustained, not requiring any VC funding. My impression is that many bootstrapped software companies are not actually making that much money; revenue figures in the $10M-$20M range are not uncommon. This money is easily spent on a staff of 50+, office space, etc.
lettergram 10y ago
You can usually just do the math. Let's assume last year I decreases the loading time of our website by 50%, taking it from 2 seconds to 1 second. This reduces the drop off rate of customers (people who switch websites before it loads) by about 15%. That means a 15% increase in overall sales. Now let's assume it was a $10 million a year business. That means it's now making $11.5 million dollars a year because a software engineer optimized the loading time. That engineer probably makes $100k or so, and he might get a 10% raise since he did such a good job. The remaining $1.49 million gets distributed amongst execs and investors. Hardly seems fair, when most executives have no idea what's going on, and provide zero value add for that case.
- Dwolb 10y ago
  Why does everyone talk like the leverage of the business is the leverage of the developer when discussing compensation? That's not how it works. Compensation is set by the market: what is the next person who can do this same job willing to be paid? If we go out into the market to find all the people that can decrease page loading time by 50% and have them bid against each other, we will probably end up paying the lowest bidder who is capable of the job about the median salary of the profession. And another point on >the remaining $1.49 million gets distributed amongst execs and investors. People who own equity in the company have legal claim on the cash flows of the business. They balance free cash flows with reinvested capital (assets,, SGA) to sustain free cash flows into the future.
  - dap 10y ago
    At least in microeconomics 101, companies hire as long as the marginal revenue equals the marginal cost of the employee. If the marginal revenue per engineer is high, companies will try to keep hiring them. The demand for engineers goes up, and so does compensation.
    - sokoloff 10y ago
      In microeconomics, the firm would use marginal gross profit not marginal revenue [sales]. Think of Amazon, Walmart, or any firm with significant COGS [cost of goods sold]. It's clear that they can't hire employees inline with marginal revenue.
ta_donk_gt 10y ago
As an opposing anecdote, I've spent a significant percentage of my software development years in the medical arena. The overwhelming majority of doctors that I have worked with do not work as hard, anywhere near as many hours, or under as much stress and the overwhelming majority of software developers I have worked with. The stressful period for most doctors is getting into medical school, getting through medical school, and getting into and through internships and residencies. That is roughly 10 years or so, and during that time it is absolutely at the pace and pressure I see in software development..but once they finish, for most of them, it is pretty smooth sailing. Those at the top of the game are a different story, but that's true anywhere. The real difference is that doctors have a powerful lobby that artificially limits their numbers, essentially providing a benefit similar to unionization. You can't massively up the numbers of doctors being trained in the U.S., and you can't import massive numbers of foreign workers to increase supply. No matter how many capable people there are, the numbers will remain artificially constrained. Software development doesn't have this protection. The only lobby in software development is regularly pushing for massive increases in supply through various channels. Doctors' salaries have continued to rise year after year..not so sure software development salaries will fare as well in the coming years..especially after we convince software devs they are already overpaid ;)
- xapata 10y ago
  Software will continue its bifurcation into two income distributions, similar to lawyers. No lawyer earns average salary. That industry is split into low wage work and high wage work. I expect software will be the same.
  - jtfairbank 10y ago
    This seems to be a trend among many highly paid fields: - Many doctors earn 100k or 3-400k depending on their field. - Many small business owners earn <100k or make a killing, depending on their field, goals, and success/luck. - 9 out of 10 startups outright fail or aren't successful enough to compensate founders & employees for the opportunity cost.
Gorbzel 10y ago
What I don't buy is why it's okay to generalize your imposter syndrome to an industry as a whole. "Maybe I feel differently about this because I'm not in a major tech hub" Read: "I can afford to live in a comfortable place and not a closet, so let me generalize such that no dev can afford to live in historically relevant software hubs either." Next, lest this selfish hot take get too tonedeaf, time to write off our 6 figure privilege! Since this is a recent accomplishment, let's ditch any sort of humility toward the the talented software minds who came before who made the efficiencies of our day jobs possible. Instead, we'll roll with some terrible analogies to completely non-sequitur professional industries! • I'm not performing life-altering surgery, because emotional hyperbolic appeals will distract from the fact I base my insight into the most valuable industry in the world on 7 paragraphs of anecdotes. Forget that the fundamentals of medicine and the practice thereof bear almost no relation to that of computer science and software development. • Wheee! I love talking about dentists with mansions. I got my teeth cleaned last Saturday, and I've never had to be on call for any sort of systems admin role. Speaking of things I've never had to do, thank god I come from an ever increasing minority of people who can afford to live a comfortable lifestyle without taking on student loan debt early in life. • I don't need a graduate degree to get precious time in a lab with equipment I absolutely must have to do my job. Unclear if I've ever met anyone who's tried to further themselves with a IT licensure, but since those aren't in vogue any more, I'll just make dreamy comparisons to one of the most antiquated, regulated industries out there. I've worked less, but people I know are stuck in debt forever working 80+ hour weeks in BigLaw! Despite the option of a meaningful career alternative to the above, developers shouldn't try to build on their gains. Let's just foreclose even the notion that there are people working out there who are underpaid because they don't have coworker peers, or they are just the "IT guy", or are a woman or minority, or because some doctor, dentist, or lawyer has an idea. "My lifetime earnings won't be that different because I got such a tremendous head start" ...so why should I try to build others up? In these kind of discussions, I often point out how software is pretty unique in that due to supply/demand, there's no labor unions or collective bargaining. But maybe it's a good thing, because I'd never want you speaking for me when it comes to how much any of us are being paid.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
barrkel 10y ago
Plenty of people work much harder than dentists, lawyers etc and get paid an order of magnitude less. Supply and demand sets prices, not worthiness or fairness. Personally, I feel like I sold my teenage years as a price for my edge in tech. I'm not always sure it was worth it.
- abalashov 10y ago
  > Personally, I feel like I sold my teenage years as a price for my edge in tech. Yes, this. That's how I got here, too. And have the same ruminations from time to time.
- lordnacho 10y ago
  Sold them? What do you regret? As far as I can tell, spending my teen years learning stuff was the right move. Short of becoming a professional sportsman, which was never on the table for me, I don't see anything that I could have now if I had acted differently.
  - initram 10y ago
    I agree. I learned a bunch of tech and then used it to socialize, make friends, meet women, etc. I don't feel I missed out on either the teenage part or the learning part.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
erklik 10y ago
I sort of agree with what you're saying but just wanna point out that you may not have gone to school and have have a loan etc. But many many software engineers do. Many of us go to uni and study a traditional degree and therefore, have a lot of loans etc as well as spend 3 to 4 years in University. Also, learning for a software engineer is pretty much forever since the moment you stop learning is your downfall in software development.
- nommm-nommm 10y ago
  I went to school and graduated with large loans because my parents didn't pay for my schooling. And I agree with the parent poster 100%. Saying software developers are underpaid is on of the silliest and out of touch things I've ever heard.
- satysin 10y ago
  Becoming a doctor, for example, is a lot longer than 3-4 years and is going to involve a lot more debt. Also if you want to be a doctor you have no choice but to do all of that formal education and pay the huge sums. If you want to learn software development you can do so for free (excluding time but that is true of all learning). All you need is a computer and an internet connection. All of the software you need can be free, there are loads of excellent free resources and even the non-free things like books are not very expensive. I know people many people who learnt to code in their own time for ~6 months and landed a decent first job. Over the next couple of years they learnt a lot more and now have great jobs earning within 20% of what a doctor usually earns however they don't have the debt and saved a few years of their lives as well. Not saying everyone can do this and become a software developer but it is very possible. I don't have a degree, I had to leave school at 16 (I am now 32) and worked in a shop to get by. I self-taught and now I earn a few £ under £100k making software. I have a super comfy life. I have zero debt (well a mortgage but no other debt), a nice house, family, a fair amount in savings, etc. Honestly I couldn't ask for more especially considering the rather small investment I put into getting this lifestyle.
frostburg 10y ago
Honestly, medical school is intellectually easier than a compsci degree, even if it takes more time and more rote learning. My friends who are doctors tend to have terrible work schedules which they can hardly escape, on the other hand. Not that this actually matters a lot in compensation, given that in the circumstances it probably doesn't have a lot of effect on the supply of doctors.
- deathandtexas 10y ago
  As someone who completed medical school but has a bachelor's degree in CS, I have to disagree with your first statement.
  - frostburg 10y ago
    I actually did the reverse (decided that I wouldn't have been good at actually being a doctor, dealing with patients, etc.); I happen to still help friends with exams and, well, there is basically nothing in there that is harder to understand than the first year calculus exam that you have to take in a computer science or engineering course. You need to acquire a working multi-level understanding of very complex systems, but I have found the chemistry->biochemistry->cell signaling and regulation->tissue etc. chain more intuitive for most people than the electronics->system architecture->machine code->programming language-> etc. chain. I'm interested in reading what made you feel that the opposite was true; maybe the issues with incomplete understanding of many processes that pop up in medicine?
dikdik 10y ago
Looking at people who seem "more impressive" in their work is not a way to gauge your worth. It's really as simple as that. Surgeons appear (and have the social capita) of being the utmost important, but salaries have little to do with that. In the digital age, where dotcom millionaires and billionaires can easily be minted...everyone should strive to take what is rightfully theirs. Because capitalism.
galfarragem 10y ago
Completely agree. I know several overworked and really smart individuals that struggle to make a decent living. Not surprisingly all of them happen to work in different fields.. By the other hand, all developers I know have an easy life. Is it a coincidence? Hardly ever you'll find anybody saying that earns too much or works too little. Be humble and enjoy.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
cema 10y ago
I agree with the main message: we are not underpaid. Considering the risks we are taking (both in life and in career) we live comfortable lives indeed. A side note: when you said "I didn't have to pass a single licensing exam" I immediately thought of the way our profession tends to have that kind of exam every time we interview each other. A big part of interview for a software developer is based on the exam-type material; this is very different from the way other professionals, even engineers, have their interviews. (Does not contradict your message, just a note.)
- rayiner 10y ago
  I'd rather take the bar exam (a uniform, objective, standardized test), than do as-hoc interview puzzles.
dv_dt 10y ago
I'm always surprised when we have this double standard of valuation of people vs companies. Companies rarely sit back and independently say - hey my products are making too much of a profit margin, maybe I should lower the price? On the flip side, there is this push to beat down the valuation of people - or at least to apply a completely different set of measures on the income of people. Why does it matter if the income is generated by something "too easy"? If anything there is an argument that labor in the overall economy is undervalued, and it is destabilizing the long term strength of the economy.
Retric 10y ago
A doctor impacts one person at a time, a software developer can impact millions. Now, people are bad when dealing with large numbers, but regularly adding removing stress from millions of people will shorten / lengthen people's lives. For less used software this might not seem like a big deal, but targeted software can have a larger indicidual impact even if it's only making 50+ people redundant.

by nilkn 10y ago

icelancer 10y ago

Underpaid is an interesting term, I guess. When you think about it, software (in its many forms) isn't like retail or hard goods; it can be sold - usually - an infinite amount of times. The upside is massive since all hard overhead is eliminated. Where then should that overhead go? To management? It's all about ratios, of course. If the owners/management of a company are grossly overpaid in comparison to the workers who produce - especially if physical overhead is nearly eliminated - then yes, developers are indeed underpaid. And I would posit this is true in many areas of software development. Perhaps not your situation, but overall? I buy it.

nilkn 10y ago
I will admit that my situation may be more unique than I realize. After all, there are vastly more software companies out there than I could ever work at, so my own experiences can never be more than mere anecdata, no matter how much I'd like to extrapolate from them. And I've only ever worked at small companies, so a relatively tiny number of developers have also worked at the same places as me. This is in stark contrast to huge corporations like Google and Amazon, where I could at least extrapolate my experience to thousands of other employees at the same company. I have not had the sense at my own jobs that the upper management was overcompensated. I can't prove this of course as I didn't and don't have access to the company's financial statements and bank accounts, but the norm has seemed to be to reinvest profits in the company in order to remain competitive. It's worth pointing out that I've only (so far) worked at companies that have been self-sustained, not requiring any VC funding. My impression is that many bootstrapped software companies are not actually making that much money; revenue figures in the $10M-$20M range are not uncommon. This money is easily spent on a staff of 50+, office space, etc.

lettergram 10y ago

You can usually just do the math. Let's assume last year I decreases the loading time of our website by 50%, taking it from 2 seconds to 1 second. This reduces the drop off rate of customers (people who switch websites before it loads) by about 15%. That means a 15% increase in overall sales. Now let's assume it was a $10 million a year business. That means it's now making $11.5 million dollars a year because a software engineer optimized the loading time. That engineer probably makes $100k or so, and he might get a 10% raise since he did such a good job. The remaining $1.49 million gets distributed amongst execs and investors. Hardly seems fair, when most executives have no idea what's going on, and provide zero value add for that case.

Dwolb 10y ago
Why does everyone talk like the leverage of the business is the leverage of the developer when discussing compensation? That's not how it works. Compensation is set by the market: what is the next person who can do this same job willing to be paid? If we go out into the market to find all the people that can decrease page loading time by 50% and have them bid against each other, we will probably end up paying the lowest bidder who is capable of the job about the median salary of the profession. And another point on >the remaining $1.49 million gets distributed amongst execs and investors. People who own equity in the company have legal claim on the cash flows of the business. They balance free cash flows with reinvested capital (assets,, SGA) to sustain free cash flows into the future.
- dap 10y ago
  At least in microeconomics 101, companies hire as long as the marginal revenue equals the marginal cost of the employee. If the marginal revenue per engineer is high, companies will try to keep hiring them. The demand for engineers goes up, and so does compensation.
  - sokoloff 10y ago
    In microeconomics, the firm would use marginal gross profit not marginal revenue [sales]. Think of Amazon, Walmart, or any firm with significant COGS [cost of goods sold]. It's clear that they can't hire employees inline with marginal revenue.

ta_donk_gt 10y ago

As an opposing anecdote, I've spent a significant percentage of my software development years in the medical arena. The overwhelming majority of doctors that I have worked with do not work as hard, anywhere near as many hours, or under as much stress and the overwhelming majority of software developers I have worked with. The stressful period for most doctors is getting into medical school, getting through medical school, and getting into and through internships and residencies. That is roughly 10 years or so, and during that time it is absolutely at the pace and pressure I see in software development..but once they finish, for most of them, it is pretty smooth sailing. Those at the top of the game are a different story, but that's true anywhere. The real difference is that doctors have a powerful lobby that artificially limits their numbers, essentially providing a benefit similar to unionization. You can't massively up the numbers of doctors being trained in the U.S., and you can't import massive numbers of foreign workers to increase supply. No matter how many capable people there are, the numbers will remain artificially constrained. Software development doesn't have this protection. The only lobby in software development is regularly pushing for massive increases in supply through various channels. Doctors' salaries have continued to rise year after year..not so sure software development salaries will fare as well in the coming years..especially after we convince software devs they are already overpaid ;)

xapata 10y ago
Software will continue its bifurcation into two income distributions, similar to lawyers. No lawyer earns average salary. That industry is split into low wage work and high wage work. I expect software will be the same.
- jtfairbank 10y ago
  This seems to be a trend among many highly paid fields: - Many doctors earn 100k or 3-400k depending on their field. - Many small business owners earn <100k or make a killing, depending on their field, goals, and success/luck. - 9 out of 10 startups outright fail or aren't successful enough to compensate founders & employees for the opportunity cost.

Gorbzel 10y ago

What I don't buy is why it's okay to generalize your imposter syndrome to an industry as a whole. "Maybe I feel differently about this because I'm not in a major tech hub" Read: "I can afford to live in a comfortable place and not a closet, so let me generalize such that no dev can afford to live in historically relevant software hubs either." Next, lest this selfish hot take get too tonedeaf, time to write off our 6 figure privilege! Since this is a recent accomplishment, let's ditch any sort of humility toward the the talented software minds who came before who made the efficiencies of our day jobs possible. Instead, we'll roll with some terrible analogies to completely non-sequitur professional industries! • I'm not performing life-altering surgery, because emotional hyperbolic appeals will distract from the fact I base my insight into the most valuable industry in the world on 7 paragraphs of anecdotes. Forget that the fundamentals of medicine and the practice thereof bear almost no relation to that of computer science and software development. • Wheee! I love talking about dentists with mansions. I got my teeth cleaned last Saturday, and I've never had to be on call for any sort of systems admin role. Speaking of things I've never had to do, thank god I come from an ever increasing minority of people who can afford to live a comfortable lifestyle without taking on student loan debt early in life. • I don't need a graduate degree to get precious time in a lab with equipment I absolutely must have to do my job. Unclear if I've ever met anyone who's tried to further themselves with a IT licensure, but since those aren't in vogue any more, I'll just make dreamy comparisons to one of the most antiquated, regulated industries out there. I've worked less, but people I know are stuck in debt forever working 80+ hour weeks in BigLaw! Despite the option of a meaningful career alternative to the above, developers shouldn't try to build on their gains. Let's just foreclose even the notion that there are people working out there who are underpaid because they don't have coworker peers, or they are just the "IT guy", or are a woman or minority, or because some doctor, dentist, or lawyer has an idea. "My lifetime earnings won't be that different because I got such a tremendous head start" ...so why should I try to build others up? In these kind of discussions, I often point out how software is pretty unique in that due to supply/demand, there's no labor unions or collective bargaining. But maybe it's a good thing, because I'd never want you speaking for me when it comes to how much any of us are being paid.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

barrkel 10y ago

Plenty of people work much harder than dentists, lawyers etc and get paid an order of magnitude less. Supply and demand sets prices, not worthiness or fairness. Personally, I feel like I sold my teenage years as a price for my edge in tech. I'm not always sure it was worth it.

abalashov 10y ago
> Personally, I feel like I sold my teenage years as a price for my edge in tech. Yes, this. That's how I got here, too. And have the same ruminations from time to time.
lordnacho 10y ago
Sold them? What do you regret? As far as I can tell, spending my teen years learning stuff was the right move. Short of becoming a professional sportsman, which was never on the table for me, I don't see anything that I could have now if I had acted differently.
- initram 10y ago
  I agree. I learned a bunch of tech and then used it to socialize, make friends, meet women, etc. I don't feel I missed out on either the teenage part or the learning part.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

erklik 10y ago

I sort of agree with what you're saying but just wanna point out that you may not have gone to school and have have a loan etc. But many many software engineers do. Many of us go to uni and study a traditional degree and therefore, have a lot of loans etc as well as spend 3 to 4 years in University. Also, learning for a software engineer is pretty much forever since the moment you stop learning is your downfall in software development.

nommm-nommm 10y ago
I went to school and graduated with large loans because my parents didn't pay for my schooling. And I agree with the parent poster 100%. Saying software developers are underpaid is on of the silliest and out of touch things I've ever heard.
satysin 10y ago
Becoming a doctor, for example, is a lot longer than 3-4 years and is going to involve a lot more debt. Also if you want to be a doctor you have no choice but to do all of that formal education and pay the huge sums. If you want to learn software development you can do so for free (excluding time but that is true of all learning). All you need is a computer and an internet connection. All of the software you need can be free, there are loads of excellent free resources and even the non-free things like books are not very expensive. I know people many people who learnt to code in their own time for ~6 months and landed a decent first job. Over the next couple of years they learnt a lot more and now have great jobs earning within 20% of what a doctor usually earns however they don't have the debt and saved a few years of their lives as well. Not saying everyone can do this and become a software developer but it is very possible. I don't have a degree, I had to leave school at 16 (I am now 32) and worked in a shop to get by. I self-taught and now I earn a few £ under £100k making software. I have a super comfy life. I have zero debt (well a mortgage but no other debt), a nice house, family, a fair amount in savings, etc. Honestly I couldn't ask for more especially considering the rather small investment I put into getting this lifestyle.

frostburg 10y ago

Honestly, medical school is intellectually easier than a compsci degree, even if it takes more time and more rote learning. My friends who are doctors tend to have terrible work schedules which they can hardly escape, on the other hand. Not that this actually matters a lot in compensation, given that in the circumstances it probably doesn't have a lot of effect on the supply of doctors.

deathandtexas 10y ago
As someone who completed medical school but has a bachelor's degree in CS, I have to disagree with your first statement.
- frostburg 10y ago
  I actually did the reverse (decided that I wouldn't have been good at actually being a doctor, dealing with patients, etc.); I happen to still help friends with exams and, well, there is basically nothing in there that is harder to understand than the first year calculus exam that you have to take in a computer science or engineering course. You need to acquire a working multi-level understanding of very complex systems, but I have found the chemistry->biochemistry->cell signaling and regulation->tissue etc. chain more intuitive for most people than the electronics->system architecture->machine code->programming language-> etc. chain. I'm interested in reading what made you feel that the opposite was true; maybe the issues with incomplete understanding of many processes that pop up in medicine?

dikdik 10y ago

Looking at people who seem "more impressive" in their work is not a way to gauge your worth. It's really as simple as that. Surgeons appear (and have the social capita) of being the utmost important, but salaries have little to do with that. In the digital age, where dotcom millionaires and billionaires can easily be minted...everyone should strive to take what is rightfully theirs. Because capitalism.

galfarragem 10y ago

Completely agree. I know several overworked and really smart individuals that struggle to make a decent living. Not surprisingly all of them happen to work in different fields.. By the other hand, all developers I know have an easy life. Is it a coincidence? Hardly ever you'll find anybody saying that earns too much or works too little. Be humble and enjoy.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

cema 10y ago

I agree with the main message: we are not underpaid. Considering the risks we are taking (both in life and in career) we live comfortable lives indeed. A side note: when you said "I didn't have to pass a single licensing exam" I immediately thought of the way our profession tends to have that kind of exam every time we interview each other. A big part of interview for a software developer is based on the exam-type material; this is very different from the way other professionals, even engineers, have their interviews. (Does not contradict your message, just a note.)

rayiner 10y ago
I'd rather take the bar exam (a uniform, objective, standardized test), than do as-hoc interview puzzles.

dv_dt 10y ago

I'm always surprised when we have this double standard of valuation of people vs companies. Companies rarely sit back and independently say - hey my products are making too much of a profit margin, maybe I should lower the price? On the flip side, there is this push to beat down the valuation of people - or at least to apply a completely different set of measures on the income of people. Why does it matter if the income is generated by something "too easy"? If anything there is an argument that labor in the overall economy is undervalued, and it is destabilizing the long term strength of the economy.

Retric 10y ago

A doctor impacts one person at a time, a software developer can impact millions. Now, people are bad when dealing with large numbers, but regularly adding removing stress from millions of people will shorten / lengthen people's lives. For less used software this might not seem like a big deal, but targeted software can have a larger indicidual impact even if it's only making 50+ people redundant.