6 ms·

Precisely. Amazon is a sweatshop. The expectation is salaried employees put in ungodly hours. All this is doing is giving people more freedom to burn themsel

by zzalpha 10y ago

Precisely. Amazon is a sweatshop. The expectation is salaried employees put in ungodly hours. All this is doing is giving people more freedom to burn themselves out at home, while further blurring the lines between work and life and throwing in a 25% pay cut as the cherry on top. It's like the opposite of Google campus life, but with the same goal.

ycombinatorMan 10y ago
I hope most places arent
BinaryIdiot 10y ago
I've worked at places exactly like this. You go to the office, get work done, get home after an 8+ hour day...and then work until midnight. It's exhausting and honestly not healthy. I gained a majority of my current weight doing that and went to the hospital twice for what ended up being severe anxiety (physically thought I was having a heart attack; worst pain ever). I now work at a much better place where I feel more valued and my work life balance is simply amazing in comparison.
whateveracct 10y ago
I work 40 hour weeks at Amazon as an SDE and never feel pressured to put in more. I don't take my work with me. It varies by team ofc I'm sure there are bad ones.
- BookingPotions 10y ago
  How long have you worked there though?
  - whateveracct 10y ago
    2 years and I've gotten a promotion and gotten no comments about the hours I work in any performance review so I guess those hours aren't considered bad in my org at least.
abbasaamer 10y ago
"Amazon is a sweatshop" I wouldn't agree with this broad generalization. I work in Alexa and the work environment on my team is pretty awesome. Lots of freedom to try new things, good work life balance, and generally a high level of respect for engineers. I turned down Google to come here and I have no regrets (though not to imply that Google isn't equally awesome).
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  > I wouldn't agree with this broad generalization. https://www.google.com/#q=amazon+sweatshop https://www.google.com/#q=amazon+sweatshop
  - Buge 10y ago
    Many of those are not about programmers, they are about the employees physically moving products around in warehouses.
    - theDoug 10y ago
      That's not better, it's just a different class of employee.
      - smb06 10y ago
        Exactly. Most of the people who say "Oh its not that bad at Amazon" are white collared workers who are living in their bubble and don't know the hardships of different class of employees.
        nostrebored 10y ago
        Most of the white collar people here have never been to a town that Amazon opened a warehouse in and actually talked to people there. I have, and reception is generally quite good. Anti-Amazonism is something I associate with upper middle class people.
chaostheory 10y ago
I like choices. I don't mind choosing where I will work. I don't think this is a bad thing.
dzhiurgis 10y ago
And Jeff Bezos is proud of this culture. He turned sweatshop definition (watch Recode interview) around into a good sign of a culture they want to promote (cost cutting). While I would not like such workplace, it sort of makes sense. It's similar to what Elon Musk said once - if you work more then everyone else, over time it becomes noticeable. Perhaps Musk shops reward you better?
crazy_ant 10y ago
>The expectation is salaried employees put in ungodly hours. I am not US based and I've always wondered about this. In virtually every other western country, it doesn't matter if you're "salaried" or not - your employer is legally prohibited from not paying overtime. If your employment contract says you work 9-5, then anything outside those hours must be compensated, often at a higher rate (1.2x-1.5x is not uncommon in many European countries). In the context of the US labor law, does being "salaried" functionally equal "being required to work unlimited overtime"?
- elbows 10y ago
  The US has overtime laws as well, but certain types of job are exempt from them. I don't know all the details of the law but in practice, basically all white-collar jobs are exempt. Here's a list of exemptions: https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/screen75.asp https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/screen75.asp
- nommm-nommm 10y ago
  There's two classes of employees in US labor law, exempt and non-exempt. It's called exempt/non-exempt because a class of employees is exempt from the Fair Labor Standards Act which defines rules for overtime. To be exempt you have to be paid on a salary basis, you have to make over a certain wage (which, until a few months ago, was a comically low $23,600/yr), and have certain job duties. These job duties that are required are defined in the FLSA. There's executive employees, administrative employees, professional employees, computer employees, and outside sales employees. The text is here: http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title29/29cfr541_main_02.tpl http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title29... In general, most salaried employees do not regularly work unpaid overtime in the US. For example, the one time I ever worked overtime in my software engineering career it was paid overtime (paid at my normal salary). I had a friend who was an (I think?) accountant and she had to work on her vacation otherwise she'd fall behind. Some workplaces are abusive and the law allows it for some classes of employees but it's not the norm outside of the bay area software industry.

by zzalpha 10y ago

ycombinatorMan 10y ago

I hope most places arent

BinaryIdiot 10y ago

I've worked at places exactly like this. You go to the office, get work done, get home after an 8+ hour day...and then work until midnight. It's exhausting and honestly not healthy. I gained a majority of my current weight doing that and went to the hospital twice for what ended up being severe anxiety (physically thought I was having a heart attack; worst pain ever). I now work at a much better place where I feel more valued and my work life balance is simply amazing in comparison.

whateveracct 10y ago

I work 40 hour weeks at Amazon as an SDE and never feel pressured to put in more. I don't take my work with me. It varies by team ofc I'm sure there are bad ones.

BookingPotions 10y ago
How long have you worked there though?
- whateveracct 10y ago
  2 years and I've gotten a promotion and gotten no comments about the hours I work in any performance review so I guess those hours aren't considered bad in my org at least.

abbasaamer 10y ago

"Amazon is a sweatshop" I wouldn't agree with this broad generalization. I work in Alexa and the work environment on my team is pretty awesome. Lots of freedom to try new things, good work life balance, and generally a high level of respect for engineers. I turned down Google to come here and I have no regrets (though not to imply that Google isn't equally awesome).

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
toomuchtodo 10y ago
> I wouldn't agree with this broad generalization. https://www.google.com/#q=amazon+sweatshop https://www.google.com/#q=amazon+sweatshop
- Buge 10y ago
  Many of those are not about programmers, they are about the employees physically moving products around in warehouses.
  - theDoug 10y ago
    That's not better, it's just a different class of employee.
    - smb06 10y ago
      Exactly. Most of the people who say "Oh its not that bad at Amazon" are white collared workers who are living in their bubble and don't know the hardships of different class of employees.
      - nostrebored 10y ago
        Most of the white collar people here have never been to a town that Amazon opened a warehouse in and actually talked to people there. I have, and reception is generally quite good. Anti-Amazonism is something I associate with upper middle class people.

chaostheory 10y ago

I like choices. I don't mind choosing where I will work. I don't think this is a bad thing.

dzhiurgis 10y ago

And Jeff Bezos is proud of this culture. He turned sweatshop definition (watch Recode interview) around into a good sign of a culture they want to promote (cost cutting). While I would not like such workplace, it sort of makes sense. It's similar to what Elon Musk said once - if you work more then everyone else, over time it becomes noticeable. Perhaps Musk shops reward you better?

crazy_ant 10y ago

>The expectation is salaried employees put in ungodly hours. I am not US based and I've always wondered about this. In virtually every other western country, it doesn't matter if you're "salaried" or not - your employer is legally prohibited from not paying overtime. If your employment contract says you work 9-5, then anything outside those hours must be compensated, often at a higher rate (1.2x-1.5x is not uncommon in many European countries). In the context of the US labor law, does being "salaried" functionally equal "being required to work unlimited overtime"?

elbows 10y ago
The US has overtime laws as well, but certain types of job are exempt from them. I don't know all the details of the law but in practice, basically all white-collar jobs are exempt. Here's a list of exemptions: https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/screen75.asp https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/screen75.asp
nommm-nommm 10y ago
There's two classes of employees in US labor law, exempt and non-exempt. It's called exempt/non-exempt because a class of employees is exempt from the Fair Labor Standards Act which defines rules for overtime. To be exempt you have to be paid on a salary basis, you have to make over a certain wage (which, until a few months ago, was a comically low $23,600/yr), and have certain job duties. These job duties that are required are defined in the FLSA. There's executive employees, administrative employees, professional employees, computer employees, and outside sales employees. The text is here: http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title29/29cfr541_main_02.tpl http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title29... In general, most salaried employees do not regularly work unpaid overtime in the US. For example, the one time I ever worked overtime in my software engineering career it was paid overtime (paid at my normal salary). I had a friend who was an (I think?) accountant and she had to work on her vacation otherwise she'd fall behind. Some workplaces are abusive and the law allows it for some classes of employees but it's not the norm outside of the bay area software industry.