9 ms·

Get Your Fucking Feet Off The Table

161 points by tl 17y ago

iamwil 17y ago
I could never figure out why kids in sitcoms wore shoes in bed.
ojbyrne 17y ago
This kind of reads like its written by a future Howard Hughes (not the rich part, the insane part). Seeing shit on the ground naturally leads to an aversion to feet. Nothing insane there.
- zedshaw 17y ago
  I prefer Emperor Nero as a good model of future-crazy-but-maybe-brilliant. :-)
__david__ 17y ago
Some people are really obsessed with dirt and germs. Some people aren't. Some people find legs stretched out is quite comfortable. Some people really don't care about your dumb hangups and like to be comfortable. Trying to say this is some passive aggressive dominance thing is really, really stretching.
- dschobel 17y ago
  Yeah I don't know about the passive aggressiveness thing but it definitely shows a level of casualness that I'd be surprised to see in an interview or in a meeting with a potential investor. We once had a candidate bust an apple out of his cargo pants in the middle of an interview and start chomping away. While obviously we're not hiring people to be polite, it does show a certain level of social tone-deafness which often portends trouble down the road.
  - nitrogen 17y ago
    Was the candidate diabetic or just inconsiderate?
    - TheSOB88 17y ago
      Insulint bastard.
- tjpick 17y ago
  > Trying to say this is some passive aggressive dominance thing is really, really stretching. True. > Some people are really obsessed with dirt and germs. Some people aren't. Some people find legs stretched out is quite comfortable. Some people really don't care about your dumb hangups and like to be comfortable. A poor excuse for bad manners.
  - __david__ 17y ago
    Perhaps, if you consider the gesture to never be appropriate. But I think it is fine. I do think it is very casual and probably not appropriate in certain formal situations. And so perhaps it is "bad manners" merely by being overly casual in certain settings...
  - kelnos 17y ago
    Who said putting your feet up is bad manners? It may be overly casual, familiar, or informal, but that's only bad manners in a setting that requires formality or involves people with whom you aren't familiar. Manners are relative, anyway. Some people think it's bad manners to put your elbows on the dining table. Others couldn't care less.
    - twinwing 17y ago
      Who said putting your feet up is bad manners? A sizable* chunk of society? We're talking about "social conducts or rules defined by society" here. They may make no sense, you may not like them, but you still have to live in a human and social world. It may be overly casual, familiar, or informal And I'm fine with that, just as long as you also understand it's unhygienic and, after being brought up to your attention, selfish (I'm comfortable) and inconsiderate (live with it). *I do not have exact numbers, but judging from this thread, >15%?
      - kelnos 17y ago
        > A sizable chunk of society? > I do not have exact numbers, but judging from this thread, >15% 1) 15% is a sizable chunk? Really? 2) Hacker News posters are about as unrepresentative a sample as you can get. > And I'm fine with that, just as long as you also understand it's unhygienic and, after being brought up to your attention, selfish (I'm comfortable) and inconsiderate (live with it). How unhygienic is it when compared with the conditions of the rest of the world around you that you interact with (voluntarily or otherwise) day by day? I don't know. I suspect you (and the blog poster) don't either. It may very well be that -- as usual -- humans are just really bad at risk analysis and stuff-from-feet just really isn't a big deal. Regardless, it's been a week or so since this post, and I've been somewhat-consciously more aware of the situations where I put up my feet. I noticed that I never put my feet up on desks (that's kinda uncomfortable; I tried it [shoeless] out of curiosity), and never on conference tables (ditto?). My favorite kind of place to put up my feet is on one of the lower supports under a table. So it appears in general I avoid putting my feet up on the actual surface of things where people might put food, or put their hands, or rest their heads, etc. Having said that, I put my feet on top of my coffee table in my living room all the time. But I never have my shoes on in my apartment, so at least that's something. Still, though, I think the obsession some people have with "public hygiene" is a bit excessive. Being conscious of personal hygiene is great, but the world is a dirty, gross, germ-ridden place. Get used to it, or go around in a giant hamster ball. On a side note, I noticed that quite a few posts here didn't present hygiene arguments. Many were from people of Indian or Middle-Eastern cultures where showing someone your feet is considered rude (a fact I was not aware of; thanks to HN for teaching me something new). Now, personally, knowing that, I would certainly avoid putting my feet up in front of people who may be culturally sensitive to that sort of thing. But, directed at people of those cultures: you're (presumably) in the US, or a place where your culture is not the dominant one. You have to understand that other cultures are different from yours, and people may not know that things they find innocuous will offend you. The onus is on you to be accommodating toward them, not the other way around. Just as when they are in your country, they should be sensitive of your culture.
- sern 17y ago
  I like to be comfortable and lying down is comfortable, but I don't take my bed in and lie down during a meeting. I like farting but I don't do it in people's faces. Wanking feels good too but I don't do it at work. Do you really not see how abhorrent it is to be inconsiderate of other people? It may not be passive-aggressive but it's certainly rude.
  - justin 17y ago
    Nice. This has me laughing so hard I'm crying. In all seriousness, I think having a wank at work is a bit more off-putting than putting your feet up. I definitely can see how you'd think this was nasty, being totally anal about other, similar things, but what can I say? I'm just not thinking too hard about how whether I'm pissing someone off. Don't do it in a meeting with someone you're really trying to impress.
  - evansolomon 17y ago
    I like drinking coffee, I do that at work. A nice big stretch from time to time is great, I do at least one each day at my desk. Several times each week I'll take off my glasses and rub my eyes a bit, I don't care who's around! Sure, there are things you like to do that shouldn't be done at work, but the two are not correlated--or at least not as correlated as you suggest. While you've found some very amusing examples, they're tangentially relevant at best and used more for hyperbole, just like most of the article.
    - netcan 17y ago
      Why don't you explain why feet on table is a dumb hangup while farting is a rational one.
      - kelnos 17y ago
        Farting smells. Feet on the table doesn't (well, hopefully not).
        btilly 17y ago
- Confusion 17y ago
  Well, I think it definitely is a cultural thing. I've never seen anyone prop their feet up on a table during a meeting and judging from the appearance of the gesture in various kinds of videos, I don't think it is common anywhere in Europe at all. This means that any explanation that calls on something crosscultural like 'wanting to relax' falls short. There is something more behind it, even if no one that does it realizes it.
  - thomasz 17y ago
    > I don't think it is common anywhere in Europe at all. It's considered very, very rude.
aaronbrethorst 17y ago
I'm tempted to send in a rant to Zed's new site entitled 'where's your fucking atom feed?'
- zedshaw 17y ago
  Damn! I forgot to put that back in the headers. Thanks man, I'll add that.
  - aaronbrethorst 17y ago
    hah, happy to be of assistance :)
tumult 17y ago
Hahaha, I started reading this straight away without glancing at the sidebar. Nodding my head in agreement with the grossness of SF (even though I live here and love it) and then after a few paragraphs thought, "man, this guy does a pretty good impression of Zed Shaw." Oh. I guess he just moved here from New York.
- X-Istence 17y ago
  Had I seen the sidebar before I read the article I would have stopped reading after the first paragraph. Let me add that after reading the article I found it to be lacking in any real valuable content that would have made this a hacker news story. It seems like he is rambling on about something, that yes I agree it is rude, it is not that big of a deal and is part of the American culture. Also, swear words were thrown in not because they added anything to the piece, but rather because he could. Shame really.
  - fleitz 17y ago
    The world according to Zed: Putting your shoes on the table: Arrogant & impolite Swearing a lot: A OK! I don't know why he's so upset with feces on the table when you consider what comes out of his mouth. Note: I like to swear as well, but I don't go around being miss manners.
    - rms 17y ago
      Swearing in English doesn't upset people not from the USA
      - nollidge 17y ago
        And it doesn't upset half the people FROM the US, either.
      - omaranto 17y ago
        Don't you think swearing in English could potentially offend anyone who speaks English whether or not they're from the USA?
boryas 17y ago
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
ax0n 17y ago
While it's aimed at Silicon Valley culture, I see some of this pretty much everywhere I go, and I'm not afraid to call someone out on it. Quote of the day: "It's kind of like if I went over to your desk, grabbed you by your greasy hair, yanked your neckbeard to my backside, and farted straight in your face while yelling, "I had Kung Pao chicken for lunch! HAHAHAAH!". Yes, that's what putting your feet up on shit is like to other people." Putting your feet up on your own shit in your own home to get comfortable? Sure. Or maybe even on your own desk at the office. In a meeting, a professional setting and/or around people who aren't good friends? Please. I would personally walk out.
- mscarborough 17y ago
  Choose one, either 'call someone out on it', or 'walk out'. Or, do like Zed and write a big passive-aggressive blog post about something that clearly bothers you, but that you won't deal with in person. Nowhere in the article did he describe a reaction from any of these 'passive-aggresive dominants', after they were 'called out' on their offensive behavior. Neither in Zed's article or this thread, has anyone done so much as mentioned their problem with the offending party. Sheesh, people. I'm not throwing my feet up on the table, but if those who do bother you so much, then let them know when it happens right in front of you, instead of waiting and venting on the Internet.
  - ax0n 17y ago
    I'm with you all the way. Also, I could (and likely would) call them out by telling them why I'm leaving. I see it from both sides. In general, I feel most comfortable on my laptop with my feet elevated and my ear-cans on. I can go for hours upon hours at a time without taking a break, in the zone. Desk life just never seems to work quite that well for me.
ryandvm 17y ago
Meh. Sounds like he's harboring the same kind of OCD as the schmuck that writes notes to his co-workers about clearing the "extra" time off the microwave. Nobody is getting cholera from feet on desks, Monk. Double up on hand sanitizer and deal with it.
- zedshaw 17y ago
  Right, just put up with it like a REAL MAN! I'll shrug it off, and like a real man, bust out that masculine hand sanitizer just like mommy uses. It's not about just the cleanliness, it's about going out of your way to rudely put your damn feet where other people have to put their hands. It's offensive and it's doubly stupid because it takes effort to do. So, if your lazy ass has to do this, then rock on manly man. You hardly earned it.
  - erlanger 17y ago
    > bust out that masculine hand sanitizer just like mommy uses. Sounds like someone has a little germaphobia. And I don't get the whole hand sanitizer thing..."Yea, I'll clean my hands by rubbing the existing crap in there real well, and by killing all but the most serious bacteria so that it has no competition." > It's not about just the cleanliness, it's about going out of your way to rudely put your damn feet where other people have to put their hands. No, it's my desk. If someone wants to take their chances around it, that's their call. No different from eating at my desk, really.
blizkreeg 17y ago
I'm Indian and I know this about many other cultures too - pointing your feet at someone is really an incredibly offensive gesture. And given how the workplace here in tech is a myriad mix of cultures, I'd avoid it. While it clearly isn't considered offensive in the US, it's still a pretty rude gesture. You may think you're just being chill and laid back but the other person is thinking (unless you both have feet pointed at each other lol) you're a moron. My first week in grad school I went to meet a professor and the fucker puts his feet up on his desk pointing them right at my face. Since I was a fob at the time, I wasn't quite sure how to take this. I lost respect for him that day. Unsurprisingly, he turned out to be an asshole of a professor too. In a professional setting, most people wouldn't tell you to put them down, but it reflects badly on you. Do it in India and your boss would fire you, instantly.
- rdtsc 17y ago
  I think they were not doing this to offend you. They don't even know this is an offensive gesture. In US the idea of of feet on the table might seem rude and unsanitary but it is not considered as an offensive gesture (like say, giving someone the middle finger). > I lost respect for him that day. Unsurprisingly, he was an asshole of a professor too. Hmm. Why do you say 'unsurprisingly'? Did you assume that he did it on purpose? If he did, then yes he is a douche bag, but I doubt he did it on purpose. Then your logic breaks down. The fact that he likes to put his feet on the table is independent of the fact that he is an asshole. And when you say you immediately "lost respect", that probably means you started to act towards him disrespectfully, and he was probably thinking "What a rude student, he is such an asshole. I don't understand why he acts like that towards me?" So to you he ended up being an asshole you probably seemed just as rude to him, all because he put his feet on the table and you mis-understood the gesture. I think your university should have had some kind of cultural orientation for incoming international students to let them know that some gestures they find terribly insulting are just the norm. There is little hope the majority will change to your particular culture's sensibilities. I speak from experience, I lived half of my life in another country with different customs. There was some cultural orientation at the university, but there were also a lot of embarrassments and misunderstandings on both sides. I wish I had more silly little pointers and tips at the orientation rather than overgeneralized stuff like 'be prepared for new experiences and new things' -- instead something like this would be nice: "Americans feel strongly about their personal space. Stay the fuck away at an arm's length! Otherwise you creep them out" -- stuff like that.
JCThoughtscream 17y ago
I can understand putting your feet on the table if A. you're at home, B. nobody else's gonna be using that desk, and C. you DON'T have company. Otherwise, it's a goddamn pair of smelly feet you're sticking within nasal range of somebody else. It doesn't matter what culture you're from - sniff it yourself and see how much you like it!
sown 17y ago
When I was in school, this sort of happened to me at a school clinic waiting room. I was crossing my legs in the American style. Without realizing my feet were pointed at what appeared to be two middle eastern men and I noticed they were giggling. I noticed and put both feet down and immediately apologized to them. They were impressed that I knew and it made for a good ice breaker (however culturally risky).
- tsuraan 17y ago
  By pointing, do you mean the soles of your shoes were facing them, or were the feet pointed in the direction of the men in the normal use of the word pointing? If it was the normal use of pointing, how do you avoid having your feet pointing towards whomever is in front of you when you walk? I'm really just trying to get a picture of the situation here.
  - sown 17y ago
    The bottom of my shoe was facing them.
antidaily 17y ago
Well meaning, well said. However, keyboards and mice supposedly have more germs on them then a toilet seat. So feet on desks probably isn't that big of a deal. Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7377002.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7377002.stm
Daniel_Newby 17y ago
I want to see this guy's expression when somebody introduces him to a dog or a toddler for the first time.
- zedshaw 17y ago
  Yes, because a 10 paragraph rant full of hyperbole about something I found funny is totally a description of my mental health. Truth is, most guys are disgusting pigs. If you think that what I wrote is totally alright, then you're just proving that.
  - look_lookatme 17y ago
    You (possibly) don't agree with me, therefore you and the majority of men are pigs. Nice.
    - zedshaw 17y ago
      You (possibly) think rhetoric should always be a cohesive proof and therefore fail at logic.
      - look_lookatme 17y ago
        Whatever works for you.
  - ableal 17y ago
    I keep under my desk about 5 euros worth of folding stool (looks like this: http://www.amazon.com/Inch-Cushioned-Folding-Stool-Safety/dp/B001QVROTC http://www.amazon.com/Inch-Cushioned-Folding-Stool-Safety/dp... ). Actually better for putting feet up at a comfortable height. I imagine that a few of those, perhaps with a printout of your post taped, might be a good investment in workplace improvement.
- Tichy 17y ago
  The main thing I don't like about dog (owners) is that you are supposed to tolerate them licking and rubbing against your trousers. Dog owners and non-dog owners would get along a lot better if dog owners would simply keep their dogs to themselves. I don't want to be introduced to dogs, thanks.
jrockway 17y ago
I read this and thought, "oh, Zed Shaw has another fucking blog". Then I realized that this is another of Zed Shaw's fucking blogs. Incidentally, most gut flora does not live so well on sidewalks and the bottoms of shoes. Anything that does will just be killed by your immune system. If you are this afraid of disease, never use a sponge or your keyboard. BTW, I don't normally put my feet on the table... but now that I know it annoys so many people, I am going to start doing it.
- zedshaw 17y ago
  Well, you got loads of class dude. But you know what? At least my blog works: http://blog.jrock.us/ http://blog.jrock.us/
  - joshu 17y ago
    his does too! it says so RIGHT THERE.
    - zedshaw 17y ago
      Oh, my bad, I guess he just reduced scope until it worked.
      - jrockway 17y ago
        Yeah, the extent of my computing knowledge is getting the default Apache 2 page up and running. Installing MT or Wordpress from apt is way beyond me. I'm so dumb that sometimes I want to cry...
  - akkartik 17y ago
    Why is this getting upvoted? It is exemplary ad hominem. I prefer Zed when he isn't ranting.
    - jrockway 17y ago
      Who cares? I know my blog is down. After Zed's stream of hate here and on Twitter, I'm a little ashamed to admit that I enjoy his writing. So in addition to putting my feet on the table, I guess I will have to pretend I don't like "Zed's fucking blog" too now. Sigh. The internets...
guelo 17y ago
I work/party/hang out in San Francisco, I'm there almost everyday, I don't remember ever seeing a human sized turd on a sidewalk. In fact, SF streets are some of the cleanest of any big city I've ever seen.
- justin 17y ago
  >> In fact, SF streets are some of the cleanest of any big city I've ever seen. False. SF is a cesspit in any part of downtown, tenderloin, SOMA, the Mission, and pretty bad in many of the other parts. Every day for the past week I've watched a mountain sized pile of shit slowly grind down (by being kicked, stepped on, and rained on) into nothingness outside of our office. It's quite frankly repellent. Now that I think of it, one time a (presumably) homeless man took a shit on the wall of our office building. It was there for weeks. *Further SF horror stories: I've also witnessed a homeless man take a dump on the fence down the street from us in broad daylight. Also a coworker has seen a pile of dump propped up against a neighbor's door, and witnessed the shock of said neighbor as they came home to discover it.
  - andrewtj 17y ago
    I can't help but wonder why you let a pile of shit sit outside your office for a week.
  - sailormoon 17y ago
    I find it quite incredible that so many Americans, mostly from SF, report seeing such things, indeed talking about them as if they're a normal part of everyday life. I have lived in a few places, mostly in Australia and Asia, all of them big cities and all of them with significant homeless populations, and have never, ever seen that kind of thing. What is it about American homeless that they lack even the basic human dignity to find a toilet to take a dump in? Or hell, at least a drain or somewhere their shit will wash away? Are they that disconnected from society? Or is it a calculated thing, like vandalism, revenge against a society they hate? It's nuts. Sure, I've seen people shit in public. Once a friend had severe stomach cramps while walking through a park in central Sydney; she rushed into the bushes to relieve the pain. And while I was living around there I regularly saw women (it always seems to be women) crouching over drains in the street outside my apartment. Hey, I understand, when you gotta go, you gotta go, and severe diarrhoea makes people desperate. That's fine. But never with this total lack of dignity and respect that SF residents seem to experience.
sailormoon 17y ago
If your shoes are so disgustingly dirty, I wouldn't bring them into the home/office at all. Take them off at the door like asians do. Then, of course, people would put their feet up in socks, and Zed would have to come up with another token justification for why he doesn't like people relaxing too ostentatiously in front of him.
itjitj 17y ago
Settle down, Francis.
callmeed 17y ago
Are those first 2 paragraphs accurate? I haven't been to the bay area (save for the airport) in a couple years.
jacoblyles 17y ago
Lighten up. You got any proof that people in offices where they are allowed to relax get sick more?
ct 17y ago
calm down -- it's not the end of the world
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
asnyder 17y ago
That's very interesting, living in New York I really don't see much shit on the ground, even when commuting into the office. Though, when I visit San Francisco I don't remember that much shit, but I do remember lots of homeless people. I suppose the weather makes it the homeless mecca. Not too hot, not too cold.
- lrm242 17y ago
  The weather--maybe. The local laws--absolutely.
nazgulnarsil 17y ago
it amazes me that people put up with living around poor people and their disgusting habits. this guy chooses to live in a city where there is human fecal matter on the ground as a matter of course.
car 17y ago
Some cultural observations about shoes on the table, feces on the sidewalk, and what it all means. a) shoes on table Western Europeans also find the gesture of shoes on chairs and tables repulsive, both in public and in private. In my experience, shoes on the table in public seems to be a US specific behavior, but please correct me if I'm wrong. You know, something you'd see in a Western. It's a very laissez faire gesture, of a confident and free people, unlike the stuck up Europeans with all their rules. The most memorable experience for me was with the CEO of a company where I worked. He would do this in every meeting, even when we met with executives of another company. It could have been a dominance gesture, but more likely his hippy attitude. I've also observed that people in the US tend to put their shoes where others will sit or put their hands, e.g. chairs, benches etc. b) dog poo People in the US pick up after their dogs, I find this great! A lot of Europeans don't, which is super nasty. The memory of dogshit in Paris and Berlin, especially on a hot summer day, makes me want to puke. Google for Paris and dogshit and see what I mean. a + b) what it means Now, to each their own, but from a hygiene/medical standpoint, shoes on chairs and tables should not be done. Let me explain why. Even with no visible dogshit under your shoe, there are myriad diseases that can be transferred this way. It does not have to be as horrible as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echinococcus_multilocularis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echinococcus_multilocularis, but there are many others. Eggs of parasitic worms hosted by domestic animals are quite hardy. That's why I'd say, leave you shoes (not necessarily feet) of chairs and tables. Why risk infecting yourself and others? Like wearing a seatbelt, a simple behavior that can save your life.
- chunkyslink 17y ago
  A lot of what you are saying is a sweeping generalisation. > People in the US pick up after their dogs, I find this great! Europeans don't, which is super nasty. I live in Yorkshire in the UK and you can get fined £1000 for not picking up your dog turd. I'm not sure how well it is policed but my town is fairly free of dog turd. Parks, pavements etc are clear. I dont see much at all. Please dont make sweeping generalistions like this. You are just plain wrong.
  - car 17y ago
    Agreed, and corrected. Sorry to draw with a broad brush, these are late night ramblings of my very subjective observations. I have not lived in all of Europe to know local laws. Would actually be curious how this problem (dog poo) is handled in different countries.
Keyframe 17y ago
Hygienic or not. Zed or not. Poor manners can tell you a lot about what to expect from that person in a business relationship. I avoid people with poor manners.
- erlanger 17y ago
  So putting my feet up on my own desk, in my own cubicle, is a sign of poor manners? Well I think anyone with that opinion can screw themselves with whichever implement they've lodged up their rectum. I sit in the same damn posture all day hammering at a keyboard, and one of my small luxuries is _printing out_ some documentation on whatever it is that I have to learn about, adjusting my chair to recline a bit, and kicking my feet up. I may do this for ten minutes or a half hour, and certainly not on a daily basis, and I certainly don't leave them on the desk if I have company. Live and let live, people. If something doesn't harm you, and isn't deliberately malicious, you have nothing to whine about. Go get some work done.
  - infinite8s 17y ago
    They aren't talking about putting up your feet in your own cubicle when nobody is around. The whole rant is about people who do it in communal settings. You yourself said you would take them down if you have company in your cubicle.
wooster 17y ago
Oh, I'm sure they did. Are you a virgin? http://www.flickr.com/photos/awooster/4483136943/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/awooster/4483136943/
- pistoriusp 17y ago
  This was the first thing I thought of when I read the article. Do you think they don't get the reference to the movie? P.S. This is a grab from a movie called "The Pirates of Silicon Valley." This guy is supposed to be Steve Jobs and he's interviewing a guy in a suit who works for IBM. I can't find the quote; but this was funny -- From wikipedia: Steve Jobs indirectly commented on the film during a practical joke at the 1999 Macworld Expo. This involved actor Noah Wyle (who portrays Jobs in the film). Wyle impersonates Jobs during the keynote speech, something which only becomes apparent when Jobs himself appears on the stage (to the wild applause of the audience). He corrects Wyle's interpretation of him and tells the audience that he "invited [Wyle] here today so he could see how I really act and plus because he's a better me than me." Wyle responds, "Thank you, thank you, I'm just glad you're not mad about the movie." Jobs laughs and states, "What? Me upset? Hey it's just a movie. But you know if you do want to make things right you could get me a little part on E.R." Then as Noah Wyle goes away, he turns and asks Steve "Are you still a virgin?" quoting a part of the film where Steve asks this to a guy who is being interviewed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirates_of_Silicon_Valley http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirates_of_Silicon_Valley
vital101 17y ago
I read an article yesterday (believe it was in the Times) about the Ipad. The article itself was pretty underwhelming, but there was a part that stuck out at me. The writer mentioned that he had a meeting with Steve Jobs. He comes in to the conference room, and there is Steve with his black turtle neck and his feet on the table. <sarcasm>I mean if Steve Jobs does it then it must be alright.</sarcasm>
dmoney 17y ago
From the title, I was hoping this was some metaphor relating to code or business.
edw519 17y ago
I don't normally care for rants, but I think this one was great. A few more "pet peeves": 1. Don't sit on my desk. I'm a programmer. My desk is also my dining table. 2. If I'm eating at my desk, don't touch my food. I'm so busy that I usually bring what I think I'll need for the day. I didn't factor in your needs too. Go to the vending machine. 3. If your come to my desk and see my typing furiously and I don't look up, that means I'm busy writing code or commenting on hn. Either way, if the building's not on fire, go away and send me an email. 4. If you get upset in a discussion with someone else, don't raise your voice, don't yell profanities, and most of all, don't slam the door or throw anything. That's when I leave for the day. Some of us have had enough of that for one lifetime. 5. If we're talking in my office, face me and take your hand off the doorknob. If it's important, I'm not going to rush through it because you're in a hurry to get somewhere else. If it's not important, then leave me alone. 6. If we're meeting, turn off your cellphone. If it vibrates, don't look at it to see who it is. If I'm not the most important person at that moment, then I don't want to meet with you. 7. I'm always happy to discuss important matters, but I don't do "status" meetings. If you want to know status, email me and I'll reply. Otherwise, my status report would read, "Nothing accomplished. Spent all day in status meetings." 8. If there's cake in the breakroom, have a piece, but leave your Tupperware in your car. This isn't Cheesecake Factory. 9. Don't lie to me. Ever. If you tell me that Joe agreed with these mods, I can easily confirm that with Joe. If he says you never talked to him, I will never listen to anything you ever say again. 10. If you had Mexican for lunch, cut the rest of us a break and use the restroom at the Shell station.
- dabent 17y ago
  >If I'm eating at my desk, don't touch my food. >If there's cake in the breakroom, have a piece, but leave your Tupperware in your car. People actually do that? Where do you work? >If you get upset in a discussion with someone else, don't raise your voice, don't yell profanities, and most of all, don't slam the door or throw anything. If one of the last two happened, that's when I'd leave for good. I've seen people get upset and even raise their voices, but if it ever got even slightly physical, I think I'd have to go. It's just too easy for an object to hit someone "accidentally." The last thing I need is a red Swingline stuck in the back of my head.
marknutter 17y ago
Unless your hanging out with buddies or using an iPad, I think it's pretty common knowledge that propping your feet up is unprofessional at best and rude at worst.
n8agrin 17y ago
It's funny he notices the shit. I always notice all the Rosemary bushes in SF. Not implying anything just pointing out what I see.
julius_geezer 17y ago
Hey! What's the magic word?

161 points by tl 17y ago

I could never figure out why kids in sitcoms wore shoes in bed.

This kind of reads like its written by a future Howard Hughes (not the rich part, the insane part). Seeing shit on the ground naturally leads to an aversion to feet. Nothing insane there.

zedshaw 17y ago
I prefer Emperor Nero as a good model of future-crazy-but-maybe-brilliant. :-)

__david__ 17y ago

Some people are really obsessed with dirt and germs. Some people aren't. Some people find legs stretched out is quite comfortable. Some people really don't care about your dumb hangups and like to be comfortable. Trying to say this is some passive aggressive dominance thing is really, really stretching.

dschobel 17y ago
Yeah I don't know about the passive aggressiveness thing but it definitely shows a level of casualness that I'd be surprised to see in an interview or in a meeting with a potential investor. We once had a candidate bust an apple out of his cargo pants in the middle of an interview and start chomping away. While obviously we're not hiring people to be polite, it does show a certain level of social tone-deafness which often portends trouble down the road.
- nitrogen 17y ago
  Was the candidate diabetic or just inconsiderate?
  - TheSOB88 17y ago
    Insulint bastard.
tjpick 17y ago
> Trying to say this is some passive aggressive dominance thing is really, really stretching. True. > Some people are really obsessed with dirt and germs. Some people aren't. Some people find legs stretched out is quite comfortable. Some people really don't care about your dumb hangups and like to be comfortable. A poor excuse for bad manners.
- __david__ 17y ago
  Perhaps, if you consider the gesture to never be appropriate. But I think it is fine. I do think it is very casual and probably not appropriate in certain formal situations. And so perhaps it is "bad manners" merely by being overly casual in certain settings...
- kelnos 17y ago
  Who said putting your feet up is bad manners? It may be overly casual, familiar, or informal, but that's only bad manners in a setting that requires formality or involves people with whom you aren't familiar. Manners are relative, anyway. Some people think it's bad manners to put your elbows on the dining table. Others couldn't care less.
  - twinwing 17y ago
    Who said putting your feet up is bad manners? A sizable* chunk of society? We're talking about "social conducts or rules defined by society" here. They may make no sense, you may not like them, but you still have to live in a human and social world. It may be overly casual, familiar, or informal And I'm fine with that, just as long as you also understand it's unhygienic and, after being brought up to your attention, selfish (I'm comfortable) and inconsiderate (live with it). *I do not have exact numbers, but judging from this thread, >15%?
    - kelnos 17y ago
      > A sizable chunk of society? > I do not have exact numbers, but judging from this thread, >15% 1) 15% is a sizable chunk? Really? 2) Hacker News posters are about as unrepresentative a sample as you can get. > And I'm fine with that, just as long as you also understand it's unhygienic and, after being brought up to your attention, selfish (I'm comfortable) and inconsiderate (live with it). How unhygienic is it when compared with the conditions of the rest of the world around you that you interact with (voluntarily or otherwise) day by day? I don't know. I suspect you (and the blog poster) don't either. It may very well be that -- as usual -- humans are just really bad at risk analysis and stuff-from-feet just really isn't a big deal. Regardless, it's been a week or so since this post, and I've been somewhat-consciously more aware of the situations where I put up my feet. I noticed that I never put my feet up on desks (that's kinda uncomfortable; I tried it [shoeless] out of curiosity), and never on conference tables (ditto?). My favorite kind of place to put up my feet is on one of the lower supports under a table. So it appears in general I avoid putting my feet up on the actual surface of things where people might put food, or put their hands, or rest their heads, etc. Having said that, I put my feet on top of my coffee table in my living room all the time. But I never have my shoes on in my apartment, so at least that's something. Still, though, I think the obsession some people have with "public hygiene" is a bit excessive. Being conscious of personal hygiene is great, but the world is a dirty, gross, germ-ridden place. Get used to it, or go around in a giant hamster ball. On a side note, I noticed that quite a few posts here didn't present hygiene arguments. Many were from people of Indian or Middle-Eastern cultures where showing someone your feet is considered rude (a fact I was not aware of; thanks to HN for teaching me something new). Now, personally, knowing that, I would certainly avoid putting my feet up in front of people who may be culturally sensitive to that sort of thing. But, directed at people of those cultures: you're (presumably) in the US, or a place where your culture is not the dominant one. You have to understand that other cultures are different from yours, and people may not know that things they find innocuous will offend you. The onus is on you to be accommodating toward them, not the other way around. Just as when they are in your country, they should be sensitive of your culture.
sern 17y ago
I like to be comfortable and lying down is comfortable, but I don't take my bed in and lie down during a meeting. I like farting but I don't do it in people's faces. Wanking feels good too but I don't do it at work. Do you really not see how abhorrent it is to be inconsiderate of other people? It may not be passive-aggressive but it's certainly rude.
- justin 17y ago
  Nice. This has me laughing so hard I'm crying. In all seriousness, I think having a wank at work is a bit more off-putting than putting your feet up. I definitely can see how you'd think this was nasty, being totally anal about other, similar things, but what can I say? I'm just not thinking too hard about how whether I'm pissing someone off. Don't do it in a meeting with someone you're really trying to impress.
- evansolomon 17y ago
  I like drinking coffee, I do that at work. A nice big stretch from time to time is great, I do at least one each day at my desk. Several times each week I'll take off my glasses and rub my eyes a bit, I don't care who's around! Sure, there are things you like to do that shouldn't be done at work, but the two are not correlated--or at least not as correlated as you suggest. While you've found some very amusing examples, they're tangentially relevant at best and used more for hyperbole, just like most of the article.
  - netcan 17y ago
    Why don't you explain why feet on table is a dumb hangup while farting is a rational one.
    - kelnos 17y ago
      Farting smells. Feet on the table doesn't (well, hopefully not).
      - btilly 17y ago
Confusion 17y ago
Well, I think it definitely is a cultural thing. I've never seen anyone prop their feet up on a table during a meeting and judging from the appearance of the gesture in various kinds of videos, I don't think it is common anywhere in Europe at all. This means that any explanation that calls on something crosscultural like 'wanting to relax' falls short. There is something more behind it, even if no one that does it realizes it.
- thomasz 17y ago
  > I don't think it is common anywhere in Europe at all. It's considered very, very rude.

aaronbrethorst 17y ago

I'm tempted to send in a rant to Zed's new site entitled 'where's your fucking atom feed?'

zedshaw 17y ago
Damn! I forgot to put that back in the headers. Thanks man, I'll add that.
- aaronbrethorst 17y ago
  hah, happy to be of assistance :)

tumult 17y ago

Hahaha, I started reading this straight away without glancing at the sidebar. Nodding my head in agreement with the grossness of SF (even though I live here and love it) and then after a few paragraphs thought, "man, this guy does a pretty good impression of Zed Shaw." Oh. I guess he just moved here from New York.

X-Istence 17y ago
Had I seen the sidebar before I read the article I would have stopped reading after the first paragraph. Let me add that after reading the article I found it to be lacking in any real valuable content that would have made this a hacker news story. It seems like he is rambling on about something, that yes I agree it is rude, it is not that big of a deal and is part of the American culture. Also, swear words were thrown in not because they added anything to the piece, but rather because he could. Shame really.
- fleitz 17y ago
  The world according to Zed: Putting your shoes on the table: Arrogant & impolite Swearing a lot: A OK! I don't know why he's so upset with feces on the table when you consider what comes out of his mouth. Note: I like to swear as well, but I don't go around being miss manners.
  - rms 17y ago
    Swearing in English doesn't upset people not from the USA
    - nollidge 17y ago
      And it doesn't upset half the people FROM the US, either.
    - omaranto 17y ago
      Don't you think swearing in English could potentially offend anyone who speaks English whether or not they're from the USA?

boryas 17y ago

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

ax0n 17y ago

While it's aimed at Silicon Valley culture, I see some of this pretty much everywhere I go, and I'm not afraid to call someone out on it. Quote of the day: "It's kind of like if I went over to your desk, grabbed you by your greasy hair, yanked your neckbeard to my backside, and farted straight in your face while yelling, "I had Kung Pao chicken for lunch! HAHAHAAH!". Yes, that's what putting your feet up on shit is like to other people." Putting your feet up on your own shit in your own home to get comfortable? Sure. Or maybe even on your own desk at the office. In a meeting, a professional setting and/or around people who aren't good friends? Please. I would personally walk out.

mscarborough 17y ago
Choose one, either 'call someone out on it', or 'walk out'. Or, do like Zed and write a big passive-aggressive blog post about something that clearly bothers you, but that you won't deal with in person. Nowhere in the article did he describe a reaction from any of these 'passive-aggresive dominants', after they were 'called out' on their offensive behavior. Neither in Zed's article or this thread, has anyone done so much as mentioned their problem with the offending party. Sheesh, people. I'm not throwing my feet up on the table, but if those who do bother you so much, then let them know when it happens right in front of you, instead of waiting and venting on the Internet.
- ax0n 17y ago
  I'm with you all the way. Also, I could (and likely would) call them out by telling them why I'm leaving. I see it from both sides. In general, I feel most comfortable on my laptop with my feet elevated and my ear-cans on. I can go for hours upon hours at a time without taking a break, in the zone. Desk life just never seems to work quite that well for me.

ryandvm 17y ago

Meh. Sounds like he's harboring the same kind of OCD as the schmuck that writes notes to his co-workers about clearing the "extra" time off the microwave. Nobody is getting cholera from feet on desks, Monk. Double up on hand sanitizer and deal with it.

zedshaw 17y ago
Right, just put up with it like a REAL MAN! I'll shrug it off, and like a real man, bust out that masculine hand sanitizer just like mommy uses. It's not about just the cleanliness, it's about going out of your way to rudely put your damn feet where other people have to put their hands. It's offensive and it's doubly stupid because it takes effort to do. So, if your lazy ass has to do this, then rock on manly man. You hardly earned it.
- erlanger 17y ago
  > bust out that masculine hand sanitizer just like mommy uses. Sounds like someone has a little germaphobia. And I don't get the whole hand sanitizer thing..."Yea, I'll clean my hands by rubbing the existing crap in there real well, and by killing all but the most serious bacteria so that it has no competition." > It's not about just the cleanliness, it's about going out of your way to rudely put your damn feet where other people have to put their hands. No, it's my desk. If someone wants to take their chances around it, that's their call. No different from eating at my desk, really.

blizkreeg 17y ago

I'm Indian and I know this about many other cultures too - pointing your feet at someone is really an incredibly offensive gesture. And given how the workplace here in tech is a myriad mix of cultures, I'd avoid it. While it clearly isn't considered offensive in the US, it's still a pretty rude gesture. You may think you're just being chill and laid back but the other person is thinking (unless you both have feet pointed at each other lol) you're a moron. My first week in grad school I went to meet a professor and the fucker puts his feet up on his desk pointing them right at my face. Since I was a fob at the time, I wasn't quite sure how to take this. I lost respect for him that day. Unsurprisingly, he turned out to be an asshole of a professor too. In a professional setting, most people wouldn't tell you to put them down, but it reflects badly on you. Do it in India and your boss would fire you, instantly.

rdtsc 17y ago
I think they were not doing this to offend you. They don't even know this is an offensive gesture. In US the idea of of feet on the table might seem rude and unsanitary but it is not considered as an offensive gesture (like say, giving someone the middle finger). > I lost respect for him that day. Unsurprisingly, he was an asshole of a professor too. Hmm. Why do you say 'unsurprisingly'? Did you assume that he did it on purpose? If he did, then yes he is a douche bag, but I doubt he did it on purpose. Then your logic breaks down. The fact that he likes to put his feet on the table is independent of the fact that he is an asshole. And when you say you immediately "lost respect", that probably means you started to act towards him disrespectfully, and he was probably thinking "What a rude student, he is such an asshole. I don't understand why he acts like that towards me?" So to you he ended up being an asshole you probably seemed just as rude to him, all because he put his feet on the table and you mis-understood the gesture. I think your university should have had some kind of cultural orientation for incoming international students to let them know that some gestures they find terribly insulting are just the norm. There is little hope the majority will change to your particular culture's sensibilities. I speak from experience, I lived half of my life in another country with different customs. There was some cultural orientation at the university, but there were also a lot of embarrassments and misunderstandings on both sides. I wish I had more silly little pointers and tips at the orientation rather than overgeneralized stuff like 'be prepared for new experiences and new things' -- instead something like this would be nice: "Americans feel strongly about their personal space. Stay the fuck away at an arm's length! Otherwise you creep them out" -- stuff like that.

JCThoughtscream 17y ago

I can understand putting your feet on the table if A. you're at home, B. nobody else's gonna be using that desk, and C. you DON'T have company. Otherwise, it's a goddamn pair of smelly feet you're sticking within nasal range of somebody else. It doesn't matter what culture you're from - sniff it yourself and see how much you like it!

sown 17y ago

When I was in school, this sort of happened to me at a school clinic waiting room. I was crossing my legs in the American style. Without realizing my feet were pointed at what appeared to be two middle eastern men and I noticed they were giggling. I noticed and put both feet down and immediately apologized to them. They were impressed that I knew and it made for a good ice breaker (however culturally risky).

tsuraan 17y ago
By pointing, do you mean the soles of your shoes were facing them, or were the feet pointed in the direction of the men in the normal use of the word pointing? If it was the normal use of pointing, how do you avoid having your feet pointing towards whomever is in front of you when you walk? I'm really just trying to get a picture of the situation here.
- sown 17y ago
  The bottom of my shoe was facing them.

antidaily 17y ago

Well meaning, well said. However, keyboards and mice supposedly have more germs on them then a toilet seat. So feet on desks probably isn't that big of a deal. Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7377002.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7377002.stm

Daniel_Newby 17y ago

I want to see this guy's expression when somebody introduces him to a dog or a toddler for the first time.

zedshaw 17y ago
Yes, because a 10 paragraph rant full of hyperbole about something I found funny is totally a description of my mental health. Truth is, most guys are disgusting pigs. If you think that what I wrote is totally alright, then you're just proving that.
- look_lookatme 17y ago
  You (possibly) don't agree with me, therefore you and the majority of men are pigs. Nice.
  - zedshaw 17y ago
    You (possibly) think rhetoric should always be a cohesive proof and therefore fail at logic.
    - look_lookatme 17y ago
      Whatever works for you.
- ableal 17y ago
  I keep under my desk about 5 euros worth of folding stool (looks like this: http://www.amazon.com/Inch-Cushioned-Folding-Stool-Safety/dp/B001QVROTC http://www.amazon.com/Inch-Cushioned-Folding-Stool-Safety/dp... ). Actually better for putting feet up at a comfortable height. I imagine that a few of those, perhaps with a printout of your post taped, might be a good investment in workplace improvement.
Tichy 17y ago
The main thing I don't like about dog (owners) is that you are supposed to tolerate them licking and rubbing against your trousers. Dog owners and non-dog owners would get along a lot better if dog owners would simply keep their dogs to themselves. I don't want to be introduced to dogs, thanks.

jrockway 17y ago

I read this and thought, "oh, Zed Shaw has another fucking blog". Then I realized that this is another of Zed Shaw's fucking blogs. Incidentally, most gut flora does not live so well on sidewalks and the bottoms of shoes. Anything that does will just be killed by your immune system. If you are this afraid of disease, never use a sponge or your keyboard. BTW, I don't normally put my feet on the table... but now that I know it annoys so many people, I am going to start doing it.

zedshaw 17y ago
Well, you got loads of class dude. But you know what? At least my blog works: http://blog.jrock.us/ http://blog.jrock.us/
- joshu 17y ago
  his does too! it says so RIGHT THERE.
  - zedshaw 17y ago
    Oh, my bad, I guess he just reduced scope until it worked.
    - jrockway 17y ago
      Yeah, the extent of my computing knowledge is getting the default Apache 2 page up and running. Installing MT or Wordpress from apt is way beyond me. I'm so dumb that sometimes I want to cry...
- akkartik 17y ago
  Why is this getting upvoted? It is exemplary ad hominem. I prefer Zed when he isn't ranting.
  - jrockway 17y ago
    Who cares? I know my blog is down. After Zed's stream of hate here and on Twitter, I'm a little ashamed to admit that I enjoy his writing. So in addition to putting my feet on the table, I guess I will have to pretend I don't like "Zed's fucking blog" too now. Sigh. The internets...

guelo 17y ago

I work/party/hang out in San Francisco, I'm there almost everyday, I don't remember ever seeing a human sized turd on a sidewalk. In fact, SF streets are some of the cleanest of any big city I've ever seen.

justin 17y ago
>> In fact, SF streets are some of the cleanest of any big city I've ever seen. False. SF is a cesspit in any part of downtown, tenderloin, SOMA, the Mission, and pretty bad in many of the other parts. Every day for the past week I've watched a mountain sized pile of shit slowly grind down (by being kicked, stepped on, and rained on) into nothingness outside of our office. It's quite frankly repellent. Now that I think of it, one time a (presumably) homeless man took a shit on the wall of our office building. It was there for weeks. *Further SF horror stories: I've also witnessed a homeless man take a dump on the fence down the street from us in broad daylight. Also a coworker has seen a pile of dump propped up against a neighbor's door, and witnessed the shock of said neighbor as they came home to discover it.
- andrewtj 17y ago
  I can't help but wonder why you let a pile of shit sit outside your office for a week.
- sailormoon 17y ago
  I find it quite incredible that so many Americans, mostly from SF, report seeing such things, indeed talking about them as if they're a normal part of everyday life. I have lived in a few places, mostly in Australia and Asia, all of them big cities and all of them with significant homeless populations, and have never, ever seen that kind of thing. What is it about American homeless that they lack even the basic human dignity to find a toilet to take a dump in? Or hell, at least a drain or somewhere their shit will wash away? Are they that disconnected from society? Or is it a calculated thing, like vandalism, revenge against a society they hate? It's nuts. Sure, I've seen people shit in public. Once a friend had severe stomach cramps while walking through a park in central Sydney; she rushed into the bushes to relieve the pain. And while I was living around there I regularly saw women (it always seems to be women) crouching over drains in the street outside my apartment. Hey, I understand, when you gotta go, you gotta go, and severe diarrhoea makes people desperate. That's fine. But never with this total lack of dignity and respect that SF residents seem to experience.

sailormoon 17y ago

If your shoes are so disgustingly dirty, I wouldn't bring them into the home/office at all. Take them off at the door like asians do. Then, of course, people would put their feet up in socks, and Zed would have to come up with another token justification for why he doesn't like people relaxing too ostentatiously in front of him.

itjitj 17y ago

Settle down, Francis.

callmeed 17y ago

Are those first 2 paragraphs accurate? I haven't been to the bay area (save for the airport) in a couple years.

jacoblyles 17y ago

Lighten up. You got any proof that people in offices where they are allowed to relax get sick more?

ct 17y ago

calm down -- it's not the end of the world

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

asnyder 17y ago

That's very interesting, living in New York I really don't see much shit on the ground, even when commuting into the office. Though, when I visit San Francisco I don't remember that much shit, but I do remember lots of homeless people. I suppose the weather makes it the homeless mecca. Not too hot, not too cold.

lrm242 17y ago
The weather--maybe. The local laws--absolutely.

nazgulnarsil 17y ago

it amazes me that people put up with living around poor people and their disgusting habits. this guy chooses to live in a city where there is human fecal matter on the ground as a matter of course.

car 17y ago

Some cultural observations about shoes on the table, feces on the sidewalk, and what it all means. a) shoes on table Western Europeans also find the gesture of shoes on chairs and tables repulsive, both in public and in private. In my experience, shoes on the table in public seems to be a US specific behavior, but please correct me if I'm wrong. You know, something you'd see in a Western. It's a very laissez faire gesture, of a confident and free people, unlike the stuck up Europeans with all their rules. The most memorable experience for me was with the CEO of a company where I worked. He would do this in every meeting, even when we met with executives of another company. It could have been a dominance gesture, but more likely his hippy attitude. I've also observed that people in the US tend to put their shoes where others will sit or put their hands, e.g. chairs, benches etc. b) dog poo People in the US pick up after their dogs, I find this great! A lot of Europeans don't, which is super nasty. The memory of dogshit in Paris and Berlin, especially on a hot summer day, makes me want to puke. Google for Paris and dogshit and see what I mean. a + b) what it means Now, to each their own, but from a hygiene/medical standpoint, shoes on chairs and tables should not be done. Let me explain why. Even with no visible dogshit under your shoe, there are myriad diseases that can be transferred this way. It does not have to be as horrible as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echinococcus_multilocularis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echinococcus_multilocularis, but there are many others. Eggs of parasitic worms hosted by domestic animals are quite hardy. That's why I'd say, leave you shoes (not necessarily feet) of chairs and tables. Why risk infecting yourself and others? Like wearing a seatbelt, a simple behavior that can save your life.

chunkyslink 17y ago
A lot of what you are saying is a sweeping generalisation. > People in the US pick up after their dogs, I find this great! Europeans don't, which is super nasty. I live in Yorkshire in the UK and you can get fined £1000 for not picking up your dog turd. I'm not sure how well it is policed but my town is fairly free of dog turd. Parks, pavements etc are clear. I dont see much at all. Please dont make sweeping generalistions like this. You are just plain wrong.
- car 17y ago
  Agreed, and corrected. Sorry to draw with a broad brush, these are late night ramblings of my very subjective observations. I have not lived in all of Europe to know local laws. Would actually be curious how this problem (dog poo) is handled in different countries.

Keyframe 17y ago

Hygienic or not. Zed or not. Poor manners can tell you a lot about what to expect from that person in a business relationship. I avoid people with poor manners.

erlanger 17y ago
So putting my feet up on my own desk, in my own cubicle, is a sign of poor manners? Well I think anyone with that opinion can screw themselves with whichever implement they've lodged up their rectum. I sit in the same damn posture all day hammering at a keyboard, and one of my small luxuries is _printing out_ some documentation on whatever it is that I have to learn about, adjusting my chair to recline a bit, and kicking my feet up. I may do this for ten minutes or a half hour, and certainly not on a daily basis, and I certainly don't leave them on the desk if I have company. Live and let live, people. If something doesn't harm you, and isn't deliberately malicious, you have nothing to whine about. Go get some work done.
- infinite8s 17y ago
  They aren't talking about putting up your feet in your own cubicle when nobody is around. The whole rant is about people who do it in communal settings. You yourself said you would take them down if you have company in your cubicle.

wooster 17y ago

Oh, I'm sure they did. Are you a virgin? http://www.flickr.com/photos/awooster/4483136943/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/awooster/4483136943/

pistoriusp 17y ago
This was the first thing I thought of when I read the article. Do you think they don't get the reference to the movie? P.S. This is a grab from a movie called "The Pirates of Silicon Valley." This guy is supposed to be Steve Jobs and he's interviewing a guy in a suit who works for IBM. I can't find the quote; but this was funny -- From wikipedia: Steve Jobs indirectly commented on the film during a practical joke at the 1999 Macworld Expo. This involved actor Noah Wyle (who portrays Jobs in the film). Wyle impersonates Jobs during the keynote speech, something which only becomes apparent when Jobs himself appears on the stage (to the wild applause of the audience). He corrects Wyle's interpretation of him and tells the audience that he "invited [Wyle] here today so he could see how I really act and plus because he's a better me than me." Wyle responds, "Thank you, thank you, I'm just glad you're not mad about the movie." Jobs laughs and states, "What? Me upset? Hey it's just a movie. But you know if you do want to make things right you could get me a little part on E.R." Then as Noah Wyle goes away, he turns and asks Steve "Are you still a virgin?" quoting a part of the film where Steve asks this to a guy who is being interviewed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirates_of_Silicon_Valley http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirates_of_Silicon_Valley

vital101 17y ago

I read an article yesterday (believe it was in the Times) about the Ipad. The article itself was pretty underwhelming, but there was a part that stuck out at me. The writer mentioned that he had a meeting with Steve Jobs. He comes in to the conference room, and there is Steve with his black turtle neck and his feet on the table. <sarcasm>I mean if Steve Jobs does it then it must be alright.</sarcasm>

dmoney 17y ago

From the title, I was hoping this was some metaphor relating to code or business.

edw519 17y ago

I don't normally care for rants, but I think this one was great. A few more "pet peeves": 1. Don't sit on my desk. I'm a programmer. My desk is also my dining table. 2. If I'm eating at my desk, don't touch my food. I'm so busy that I usually bring what I think I'll need for the day. I didn't factor in your needs too. Go to the vending machine. 3. If your come to my desk and see my typing furiously and I don't look up, that means I'm busy writing code or commenting on hn. Either way, if the building's not on fire, go away and send me an email. 4. If you get upset in a discussion with someone else, don't raise your voice, don't yell profanities, and most of all, don't slam the door or throw anything. That's when I leave for the day. Some of us have had enough of that for one lifetime. 5. If we're talking in my office, face me and take your hand off the doorknob. If it's important, I'm not going to rush through it because you're in a hurry to get somewhere else. If it's not important, then leave me alone. 6. If we're meeting, turn off your cellphone. If it vibrates, don't look at it to see who it is. If I'm not the most important person at that moment, then I don't want to meet with you. 7. I'm always happy to discuss important matters, but I don't do "status" meetings. If you want to know status, email me and I'll reply. Otherwise, my status report would read, "Nothing accomplished. Spent all day in status meetings." 8. If there's cake in the breakroom, have a piece, but leave your Tupperware in your car. This isn't Cheesecake Factory. 9. Don't lie to me. Ever. If you tell me that Joe agreed with these mods, I can easily confirm that with Joe. If he says you never talked to him, I will never listen to anything you ever say again. 10. If you had Mexican for lunch, cut the rest of us a break and use the restroom at the Shell station.

dabent 17y ago
>If I'm eating at my desk, don't touch my food. >If there's cake in the breakroom, have a piece, but leave your Tupperware in your car. People actually do that? Where do you work? >If you get upset in a discussion with someone else, don't raise your voice, don't yell profanities, and most of all, don't slam the door or throw anything. If one of the last two happened, that's when I'd leave for good. I've seen people get upset and even raise their voices, but if it ever got even slightly physical, I think I'd have to go. It's just too easy for an object to hit someone "accidentally." The last thing I need is a red Swingline stuck in the back of my head.

marknutter 17y ago

Unless your hanging out with buddies or using an iPad, I think it's pretty common knowledge that propping your feet up is unprofessional at best and rude at worst.

n8agrin 17y ago

It's funny he notices the shit. I always notice all the Rosemary bushes in SF. Not implying anything just pointing out what I see.

julius_geezer 17y ago

Hey! What's the magic word?