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Once you have the standard library split apart, you might as well split it up, though, and then you don't really have a standard library any more. You could go

Once you have the standard library split apart, you might as well split it up, though, and then you don't really have a standard library any more. You could go the Haskell Platform route... which isn't a wonderful idea.

rubber_duck 10y ago
I think if Python was developed from scratch now you would have a very small classic standard library and then stuff like HTTP server/client and JSON parsers would be separate libraries handled by package manager, but since python is a scripting language it would make sense to ship with some packages by default (so not a standard library, but say core packages) - this would let you version the core packages like any other package, but it would still let you run scripts without internet access/need to pull random dependencies for a script run.
- vertex-four 10y ago
  That is pretty much the Haskell Platform. Haskell people have issues with it because it contains a whole bunch of really useful packages, but essentially pins them at old versions globally. Upgrading them, then, is a global thing, and if someone depends on an older version... you're stuck. The solution to this, of course, is sandboxing - never install libraries globally, only on a project-specific basis, and then their dependencies can override global ones. But it's fiddly to get the UX right - in Python, managing that involves two separate tools. And you'd need to create a project directory to get a repl with some library in it, unless you had extensions to the repl to install things temporarily - and then you'd likely have two separate UXes for installing things, whether you're doing it for a REPL or a project.
marcosdumay 10y ago
> Haskell Platform route... which isn't a wonderful idea It's a bad idea, on short timeframes. But it's a hell of an adaptability bonus that ensures the language will keep improving. Just like Haskell's extension system, or its loose dependency on Prelude, or its multiparadigm emulation. I keep hopping something better than Haskell appears and people move on - but it probably won't happen any time soon, as soon as something better gets traction, Haskell will simply devour it and keep growing.

rubber_duck 10y ago

I think if Python was developed from scratch now you would have a very small classic standard library and then stuff like HTTP server/client and JSON parsers would be separate libraries handled by package manager, but since python is a scripting language it would make sense to ship with some packages by default (so not a standard library, but say core packages) - this would let you version the core packages like any other package, but it would still let you run scripts without internet access/need to pull random dependencies for a script run.

vertex-four 10y ago
That is pretty much the Haskell Platform. Haskell people have issues with it because it contains a whole bunch of really useful packages, but essentially pins them at old versions globally. Upgrading them, then, is a global thing, and if someone depends on an older version... you're stuck. The solution to this, of course, is sandboxing - never install libraries globally, only on a project-specific basis, and then their dependencies can override global ones. But it's fiddly to get the UX right - in Python, managing that involves two separate tools. And you'd need to create a project directory to get a repl with some library in it, unless you had extensions to the repl to install things temporarily - and then you'd likely have two separate UXes for installing things, whether you're doing it for a REPL or a project.

marcosdumay 10y ago

> Haskell Platform route... which isn't a wonderful idea It's a bad idea, on short timeframes. But it's a hell of an adaptability bonus that ensures the language will keep improving. Just like Haskell's extension system, or its loose dependency on Prelude, or its multiparadigm emulation. I keep hopping something better than Haskell appears and people move on - but it probably won't happen any time soon, as soon as something better gets traction, Haskell will simply devour it and keep growing.