4 ms·

It's hard to believe that no rumors were circulated among the players or coaches of different teams, or at least, they were never strong enough for a single per

It's hard to believe that no rumors were circulated among the players or coaches of different teams, or at least, they were never strong enough for a single person to investigate seriously. Especially with the amount of money they must have been paying for nothing. Although I guess if the fans are happy, the money is well spent...?

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
mathattack 10y ago
Repeat con men thrive on their victims being too embarrassed to publicly call them out.
- jjnoakes 10y ago
  I'm not talking about publicly calling anyone out. I'm surprised the coaches and players on teams taking him in didn't hear enough rumors from the coaches and players on the teams he was leaving to make them suspicious enough to investigate his ability themselves (or even watch him work the ball for more than a few seconds).
  - mathattack 10y ago
    Even then, coaches wouldn't want to fess up being hoodwinked. Looks bad!
RubyPinch 10y ago
It might of been like, when he was starting out, no one really cared to look, after he was famous, anyone who noticed anything would of just assumed it was a stint of bad luck, otherwise he wouldn't be famous!
caseysoftware 10y ago
There's an emperor looking for his new clothes too..
wnevets 10y ago
Reminds me the story of the con man who tried to buy the Islanders. People were told he was rich and just believed whatever terrible excuse he came up with about why he didn't have the money. "If he wasn't rich how'd he make it this far? Surely someone must've checked" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Spano https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Spano
notahacker 10y ago
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he earned little or no money from most of his clubs, posing as an injured player desperately hoping to resurrect his career who was willing to train with them on a contract structured mostly on a pay-as-you-play basis. I suspect his limitations as a footballer were slightly exaggerated too: Brazilian Wikipedia records him as having made 15 appearances for Fluminense, one of Brazil's bigger clubs, at one stage of his career. As for the fans, I doubt many of them cared about or even knew the name of a free transfer signing in the reserve squad. That theory doesn't fit with the narrative that well, but if there's one thing we know for sure about him it's that he knows how to spin a good story to the media.
- icebraining 10y ago
  Not sure if the Wikipedia page is true; it has no reference for the 15 appearances, as far as I can tell. Globo[1] says he only lasted a week in Fluminense. [1] http://globoesporte.globo.com/futebol/noticia/2011/05/briga-com-torcedor-bolas-na-galera-celular-falso-aventuras-de-kaizer.html http://globoesporte.globo.com/futebol/noticia/2011/05/briga-...
  - notahacker 10y ago
    Globo seems to credit Ronaldo Torres with unmasking him as a fraud at both Botafogo and Fluminense... Separating the reality from the fantasy is difficult when the sources from the period can't be relied upon: the Globo article also includes an clipping from a Brazilian newspaper - presumably written by one of his journalist friends - discussing him being the top scorer in the French third tier in 86/7! Which I'm pretty sure he wasn't. Various accounts of him as a footballing charlatan have this stint in France as a brief year in the middle of his career or an extended stint in its twilight; have his career begin as a promising teenager or as a 23 year old socialite. Attempts to total up his career appearances seem to agree he played in around 30 first team matches for professional clubs but disagree about whether these were only overseas or mostly in Brazil Above all, even in the internet age you can see why some of his taller stories might have been believed...
- tome 10y ago
soneca 10y ago
The players that are mentioned at the beginning of the article were very big shots, incredibly good and powerful players. They would basically run their teams. Romario, one of the greatest forwards of all time was known for "owning" the team. He, not the coach, would say who would play and who would be on the bench. Any antagonist would soon be fired or negotiated to other team. And these guys most certainly knew he was a fraud. If i recall correctly, they outright admitted so in the brazilian articles I read about his guy. They just didn't care because he was part of the gang.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

mathattack 10y ago

Repeat con men thrive on their victims being too embarrassed to publicly call them out.

jjnoakes 10y ago
I'm not talking about publicly calling anyone out. I'm surprised the coaches and players on teams taking him in didn't hear enough rumors from the coaches and players on the teams he was leaving to make them suspicious enough to investigate his ability themselves (or even watch him work the ball for more than a few seconds).
- mathattack 10y ago
  Even then, coaches wouldn't want to fess up being hoodwinked. Looks bad!

RubyPinch 10y ago

It might of been like, when he was starting out, no one really cared to look, after he was famous, anyone who noticed anything would of just assumed it was a stint of bad luck, otherwise he wouldn't be famous!

caseysoftware 10y ago

There's an emperor looking for his new clothes too..

wnevets 10y ago

Reminds me the story of the con man who tried to buy the Islanders. People were told he was rich and just believed whatever terrible excuse he came up with about why he didn't have the money. "If he wasn't rich how'd he make it this far? Surely someone must've checked" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Spano https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Spano

notahacker 10y ago

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he earned little or no money from most of his clubs, posing as an injured player desperately hoping to resurrect his career who was willing to train with them on a contract structured mostly on a pay-as-you-play basis. I suspect his limitations as a footballer were slightly exaggerated too: Brazilian Wikipedia records him as having made 15 appearances for Fluminense, one of Brazil's bigger clubs, at one stage of his career. As for the fans, I doubt many of them cared about or even knew the name of a free transfer signing in the reserve squad. That theory doesn't fit with the narrative that well, but if there's one thing we know for sure about him it's that he knows how to spin a good story to the media.

icebraining 10y ago
Not sure if the Wikipedia page is true; it has no reference for the 15 appearances, as far as I can tell. Globo[1] says he only lasted a week in Fluminense. [1] http://globoesporte.globo.com/futebol/noticia/2011/05/briga-com-torcedor-bolas-na-galera-celular-falso-aventuras-de-kaizer.html http://globoesporte.globo.com/futebol/noticia/2011/05/briga-...
- notahacker 10y ago
  Globo seems to credit Ronaldo Torres with unmasking him as a fraud at both Botafogo and Fluminense... Separating the reality from the fantasy is difficult when the sources from the period can't be relied upon: the Globo article also includes an clipping from a Brazilian newspaper - presumably written by one of his journalist friends - discussing him being the top scorer in the French third tier in 86/7! Which I'm pretty sure he wasn't. Various accounts of him as a footballing charlatan have this stint in France as a brief year in the middle of his career or an extended stint in its twilight; have his career begin as a promising teenager or as a 23 year old socialite. Attempts to total up his career appearances seem to agree he played in around 30 first team matches for professional clubs but disagree about whether these were only overseas or mostly in Brazil Above all, even in the internet age you can see why some of his taller stories might have been believed...
tome 10y ago

soneca 10y ago

The players that are mentioned at the beginning of the article were very big shots, incredibly good and powerful players. They would basically run their teams. Romario, one of the greatest forwards of all time was known for "owning" the team. He, not the coach, would say who would play and who would be on the bench. Any antagonist would soon be fired or negotiated to other team. And these guys most certainly knew he was a fraud. If i recall correctly, they outright admitted so in the brazilian articles I read about his guy. They just didn't care because he was part of the gang.