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Just an interesting related tangent here: My father in law is dying of heart disease (will probably die in < 1 month) and we run into the same thing. People se

Just an interesting related tangent here: My father in law is dying of heart disease (will probably die in < 1 month) and we run into the same thing. People see me upset and the first thing they say is he will get better, or, it will be ok. When I explain the situation, it's something like, "oh, well, I just KNOW he will get better. Don't worry" What? In case you are wondering: He has already had open heart 2 years ago, 4 of 5 arteries are completely blocked again (and those are already bypasses that are blocked again) and the remaining 1 is at 40% blocked. He found all this out when he went to one of the best heart hospitals in the world and they sent him home: "There is nothing we can do." Again, the open heart to bypass all 5 was only 2 years ago, so the math is pretty straightforward on how long the one artery will last. He has something in his genetics in his family that makes it so this will happen pretty much no matter what he does. The advice is endless. He has done his research and I believe he has had some real success in delaying this, he has outlived his younger brother by ~20 years (who died in a similar situation at 34). But it's over now. I am trying to help his family get everything in order. And while it's sobering, it can be a very positive experience. But I wish our friends would stop telling us he'll be fine.

mkriss 10y ago
Plant based diet is possible solution. [1] Watch documentary "Forks over knives" [1]. http://www.dresselstyn.com/resolving_cade.htm http://www.dresselstyn.com/resolving_cade.htm
protomyth 10y ago
Hope is the humanities desired result, we all hope for the miracle. Once in a great while it happens. Good luck. The paper work for these things is the hardest, and making sure the executor of the estate is up to the task. I do hope you've been able to get the family to see an actual accountant to do as much as possible while he lives so the tax burden and hassle will be lower. Its a serious pain in the butt to deal with bureaucrats when you really want to deal with family.
beachstartup 10y ago
i also hate saying and hearing platitudes, but recognize that it's only because people don't know what else to say. by telling them about this unfortunate situation, you're kind of putting them into that position. these days i only tell my problems to people who have the ability to do something about it, or my closest friends who will commiserate without offering useless responses.
- omginternets 10y ago
  I have to agree with this. People can't be expected to know what every individual would prefer to hear in every conceivable circumstance. Platitudes are often an oblique way of saying "I empathize and I wish you the best" while not being discouraging. Actually saying the above might be preferable, but it's unfair to criticize the gesture, I think. If I mention this, it's because I think there are parallels to be drawn with other, more contentious, issues in which people take more serious offense.
  - Double_Cast 10y ago
    It's absolutely fair to criticize the gesture. You know how SJW's tell outsiders to check their privilege when they make the discussion about themselves? Platitudes similarly make the discussion about themselves instead of the cancer patient. "Fight it." Wow, you're so optimistic! "Eat more fruit." You're so knowledgeable! Since you're a certified nutritionist, am I eating enough Quinoa? http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/12/funeral.html http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/12/funeral.html > (...) The hyena is caught awkwardly, so he rests his paws on the woman's shoulders, and now the sobbing woman must associate her last chance to be with what is left of her father with the stale breath of a sycophant waiting for his moment to be relevant. > And while that's going on others are whispering to the quivering back of her coat, "oh, I'm so sorry", "I'm sure he really loved you", "are you ok?" > Why did any one of them think they had the power, the right, to interfere with another person's mourning? This was between her and her father and God and no one else. Did no one notice that even the husband had given her space? Did they just think he was being a jerk? "I just wanted to comfort her." No, you didn't know what else to do, so you did that. "I didn't want her to be alone." That's because you are a terrible person. I.e. the woman struggled to spend her last moments with her father while the surrounding mourners (each vying for her attention) entered a pissing-contest to prove who had more empathy.
WoodenChair 10y ago
Okay, I hate to pile on to the advice section. Actually this is not advice, but just a random tip from a random person. I read a book this year that has several anecdotes of people in similar situations to your father-in-law. The doctor who wrote it is radical and outside of the mainstream. Yet, the things he writes make a ton of sense when you have nothing else to lose. It's a short read, and his clinical results speak for themselves. I would feel remiss to not pass it on. Maybe it's a bunch of junk. Maybe when he says he can reverse situations like your father-in-law's (people soon to die of heart disease who have reversed it based on his extreme diet) it's the exceptions. Or maybe I was meant to read it this year so I could pass on this tip: https://www.amazon.com/Prevent-Reverse-Heart-Disease-Nutrition-Based/dp/1583333002/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1471876400&sr=8-1&keywords=prevent+and+reverse+heart+disease https://www.amazon.com/Prevent-Reverse-Heart-Disease-Nutriti...
- yaakov34 10y ago
  How about you think about what you just said for a minute. How is this a situation of "nothing to lose"? You are talking about an extremely sick person who, based on the fact that he has extremely advanced heart disease, probably has a lot of difficulty just being there for his family, and trying to put his affairs in order. Do you think he has the time and capacity to go on an "extreme diet" on the strength of "why not"? And if I publish some book which says that hitting oneself on the head with a pillow 100 times will cure heart disease, should he then try that? After all, what has he got to lose, right?
  - Practicality 10y ago
    True. Similar to cancer, most people don't consider the fact that the severe constant pain he is in (his heart is starved for oxygen) and the weakness and exhaustion is a severe hindrance. That and at this point facing the reality of his own impending death, suddenly concerns for your family become paramount. His one daughter is still living at home (although she is 19 so that won't be a long-term issue). He's a tough guy though, so he really is trying to do all of the above anyway. I think that is why so many believe he cannot die. If willpower was the only thing that mattered he would live forever.
yaakov34 10y ago
There is also this commonly held notion that if you "live right", with healthy habits, food, and exercise, you will live to 98 in perfect health, and probably die of an instant heart attack while in bed with a young lover. It's of course true that obesity and lack of exercise increase health risks at all ages, but that risk was never going to be 0. The notion that I mentioned basically makes health problems into a morality play. I've even seen people get angry at the fact that statins can reduce heart disease risk in an "unearned" way - they can't accept that. The fact is that blood vessels and everything else lose function with increasing age, at a different rate for different people.
- 1123581321 10y ago
  It is a fact that lifestyle affects likelihood and progression of heart disease. Rare cases that end life early for genetic reasons do not change this. It is unfortunate that some people assume all early heart problems are avoidable, but only because sharing an opinion is unnecessary, not because the assumption is likely wrong. The morality of not taking care of oneself is subjective, of course. Edit: I should say I lost a sibling to incurable cancer at a young age. I have heard no end of useless advice about her diet, special almonds, clinics, etc. So I strongly believe in not sharing advice that helps a majority when talking to a particular person, even though I know there are ways to live that reduce likelihood of some cancers.
  - yaakov34 10y ago
    It is a fact that the effect exists, but I think that you are also victim to the popular idea that this effect is extremely powerful or even overwhelming, making "taking care of yourself" a powerful morality tale. Here is a quote from a large study: "having a BMI between 30 and 35 shortened life by an average of 0–1 years, having a BMI between 35 and 40 shortened life by 1–3 years, and having a BMI above 40 shortened life by 1–7 years" (This is easily googlable, I don't want to turn this message into a journal article) Note that the error bars on the effect are quite large (1 to 7 years even for extreme obesity). Now it's true that a lot of things hide in an "average", and there is a lot to discuss here, and I am definitely not discouraging anybody from acquiring healthy habits and lifestyle, but... it's just not a simple story of reward for virtue and punishment for sins. Genetic factors which we have no control over probably have a greater effect. Which is not a story that people want to hear.
jmichelz 10y ago
Talk to this guy: http://www.drgundry.com http://www.drgundry.com He has had good results with people like your father in law.
FuNe 10y ago
It is a really weird situation (I'm trying to put myself in your friends position). I guess I'd revert into this BS nice talk as a way to help you emotionally (even though I know it's BS). So -assuming that I do care and that situation makes me sad- what am I supposed to say? How could I really help?
- graeme 10y ago
  A big hug, if they're the kind of person who likes hugs and you're close enough to hug. And not hiding your sadness while doing so. Or "I'm sorry to hear that. Is there anything I can do?" Or any general statement of empathy. I've been in a similar situation, and those were the best replies. But everyone is different, so I'd ask a few more people what were good responses. Probably whatever multiple people mention is a good answer.
  - thaumasiotes 10y ago
    > Or "I'm sorry to hear that. Is there anything I can do?" > Or any general statement of empathy. I've been in a similar situation, and those were the best replies. In a similar vein, "that sucks" seems appropriate.

mkriss 10y ago

Plant based diet is possible solution. [1] Watch documentary "Forks over knives" [1]. http://www.dresselstyn.com/resolving_cade.htm http://www.dresselstyn.com/resolving_cade.htm

protomyth 10y ago

Hope is the humanities desired result, we all hope for the miracle. Once in a great while it happens. Good luck. The paper work for these things is the hardest, and making sure the executor of the estate is up to the task. I do hope you've been able to get the family to see an actual accountant to do as much as possible while he lives so the tax burden and hassle will be lower. Its a serious pain in the butt to deal with bureaucrats when you really want to deal with family.

beachstartup 10y ago

i also hate saying and hearing platitudes, but recognize that it's only because people don't know what else to say. by telling them about this unfortunate situation, you're kind of putting them into that position. these days i only tell my problems to people who have the ability to do something about it, or my closest friends who will commiserate without offering useless responses.

omginternets 10y ago
I have to agree with this. People can't be expected to know what every individual would prefer to hear in every conceivable circumstance. Platitudes are often an oblique way of saying "I empathize and I wish you the best" while not being discouraging. Actually saying the above might be preferable, but it's unfair to criticize the gesture, I think. If I mention this, it's because I think there are parallels to be drawn with other, more contentious, issues in which people take more serious offense.
- Double_Cast 10y ago
  It's absolutely fair to criticize the gesture. You know how SJW's tell outsiders to check their privilege when they make the discussion about themselves? Platitudes similarly make the discussion about themselves instead of the cancer patient. "Fight it." Wow, you're so optimistic! "Eat more fruit." You're so knowledgeable! Since you're a certified nutritionist, am I eating enough Quinoa? http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/12/funeral.html http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/12/funeral.html > (...) The hyena is caught awkwardly, so he rests his paws on the woman's shoulders, and now the sobbing woman must associate her last chance to be with what is left of her father with the stale breath of a sycophant waiting for his moment to be relevant. > And while that's going on others are whispering to the quivering back of her coat, "oh, I'm so sorry", "I'm sure he really loved you", "are you ok?" > Why did any one of them think they had the power, the right, to interfere with another person's mourning? This was between her and her father and God and no one else. Did no one notice that even the husband had given her space? Did they just think he was being a jerk? "I just wanted to comfort her." No, you didn't know what else to do, so you did that. "I didn't want her to be alone." That's because you are a terrible person. I.e. the woman struggled to spend her last moments with her father while the surrounding mourners (each vying for her attention) entered a pissing-contest to prove who had more empathy.

WoodenChair 10y ago

Okay, I hate to pile on to the advice section. Actually this is not advice, but just a random tip from a random person. I read a book this year that has several anecdotes of people in similar situations to your father-in-law. The doctor who wrote it is radical and outside of the mainstream. Yet, the things he writes make a ton of sense when you have nothing else to lose. It's a short read, and his clinical results speak for themselves. I would feel remiss to not pass it on. Maybe it's a bunch of junk. Maybe when he says he can reverse situations like your father-in-law's (people soon to die of heart disease who have reversed it based on his extreme diet) it's the exceptions. Or maybe I was meant to read it this year so I could pass on this tip: https://www.amazon.com/Prevent-Reverse-Heart-Disease-Nutrition-Based/dp/1583333002/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1471876400&sr=8-1&keywords=prevent+and+reverse+heart+disease https://www.amazon.com/Prevent-Reverse-Heart-Disease-Nutriti...

yaakov34 10y ago
How about you think about what you just said for a minute. How is this a situation of "nothing to lose"? You are talking about an extremely sick person who, based on the fact that he has extremely advanced heart disease, probably has a lot of difficulty just being there for his family, and trying to put his affairs in order. Do you think he has the time and capacity to go on an "extreme diet" on the strength of "why not"? And if I publish some book which says that hitting oneself on the head with a pillow 100 times will cure heart disease, should he then try that? After all, what has he got to lose, right?
- Practicality 10y ago
  True. Similar to cancer, most people don't consider the fact that the severe constant pain he is in (his heart is starved for oxygen) and the weakness and exhaustion is a severe hindrance. That and at this point facing the reality of his own impending death, suddenly concerns for your family become paramount. His one daughter is still living at home (although she is 19 so that won't be a long-term issue). He's a tough guy though, so he really is trying to do all of the above anyway. I think that is why so many believe he cannot die. If willpower was the only thing that mattered he would live forever.

yaakov34 10y ago

There is also this commonly held notion that if you "live right", with healthy habits, food, and exercise, you will live to 98 in perfect health, and probably die of an instant heart attack while in bed with a young lover. It's of course true that obesity and lack of exercise increase health risks at all ages, but that risk was never going to be 0. The notion that I mentioned basically makes health problems into a morality play. I've even seen people get angry at the fact that statins can reduce heart disease risk in an "unearned" way - they can't accept that. The fact is that blood vessels and everything else lose function with increasing age, at a different rate for different people.

1123581321 10y ago
It is a fact that lifestyle affects likelihood and progression of heart disease. Rare cases that end life early for genetic reasons do not change this. It is unfortunate that some people assume all early heart problems are avoidable, but only because sharing an opinion is unnecessary, not because the assumption is likely wrong. The morality of not taking care of oneself is subjective, of course. Edit: I should say I lost a sibling to incurable cancer at a young age. I have heard no end of useless advice about her diet, special almonds, clinics, etc. So I strongly believe in not sharing advice that helps a majority when talking to a particular person, even though I know there are ways to live that reduce likelihood of some cancers.
- yaakov34 10y ago
  It is a fact that the effect exists, but I think that you are also victim to the popular idea that this effect is extremely powerful or even overwhelming, making "taking care of yourself" a powerful morality tale. Here is a quote from a large study: "having a BMI between 30 and 35 shortened life by an average of 0–1 years, having a BMI between 35 and 40 shortened life by 1–3 years, and having a BMI above 40 shortened life by 1–7 years" (This is easily googlable, I don't want to turn this message into a journal article) Note that the error bars on the effect are quite large (1 to 7 years even for extreme obesity). Now it's true that a lot of things hide in an "average", and there is a lot to discuss here, and I am definitely not discouraging anybody from acquiring healthy habits and lifestyle, but... it's just not a simple story of reward for virtue and punishment for sins. Genetic factors which we have no control over probably have a greater effect. Which is not a story that people want to hear.

jmichelz 10y ago

Talk to this guy: http://www.drgundry.com http://www.drgundry.com He has had good results with people like your father in law.

FuNe 10y ago

It is a really weird situation (I'm trying to put myself in your friends position). I guess I'd revert into this BS nice talk as a way to help you emotionally (even though I know it's BS). So -assuming that I do care and that situation makes me sad- what am I supposed to say? How could I really help?

graeme 10y ago
A big hug, if they're the kind of person who likes hugs and you're close enough to hug. And not hiding your sadness while doing so. Or "I'm sorry to hear that. Is there anything I can do?" Or any general statement of empathy. I've been in a similar situation, and those were the best replies. But everyone is different, so I'd ask a few more people what were good responses. Probably whatever multiple people mention is a good answer.
- thaumasiotes 10y ago
  > Or "I'm sorry to hear that. Is there anything I can do?" > Or any general statement of empathy. I've been in a similar situation, and those were the best replies. In a similar vein, "that sucks" seems appropriate.