7 ms·

> Surely the contribution of these people to civilization is well correlated with the economic benefits reaped. I'm not sure whether you're being sarcastic or

by ekidd 10y ago

> Surely the contribution of these people to civilization is well correlated with the economic benefits reaped. I'm not sure whether you're being sarcastic or not. But I actually do agree that the lawyers in this case have provided significant economic benefit to the public. "Happy Birthday to You" is almost universally known in the English speaking world, even by children, and it's frequently performed in public. Up until now, restaurants and youth organizations have have often discouraged their staff from singing this song, and of course, people who did sing it publicly were at risk of getting letters from lawyers. Now several hundred million people can just sing the song without worrying about copyright issues. I have no problem with the lawyers getting paid well.

forgotpwtomain 10y ago
It was a rather tongue in cheek comment. The assessment of value changes depending on where you begin your inquiry; if you look only at the immediate situation than effectively yes, these lawyers have provided a tangible public service. On the other-hand the entire branch of law in this case is providing no-benefit to civilization and it's only acts as a funnel for the transfer of wealth between entities (lawyers facilitate this transfer and benefit from it's continued practice which is definitionally parasitic since nothing of value is being created in the process).
- rayiner 10y ago
  Copyright creates enormous wealth. You can't have markets if you can't have transactions, and you can't have transactions in software if you don't have copyright protection. You're limited to this impoverished world where the software creator has to lock it behind a services API in order to monetize it. The world benefits enormously from just being able to sell software, movies, etc. as you would a physical product. A world without copyright is not one in which studios still make the AAA movies people want and just distribute them into the public domain. It's one where you can only watch movies in theaters, or stream them onto locked down devices like Apple TVs instead of general purpose computers.
  - zeveb 10y ago
    > You can't have markets if you can't have transactions, and you can't have transactions in software if you don't have copyright protection. I'm not convinced that copyrighted software is, indeed, a good thing. The FSF's philosophical documents are pretty persuasive. > The world benefits enormously from just being able to sell software, movies, etc. as you would a physical product. Does it though? I've found that the best, most pleasant, most powerful, most flexible software I use is free. > It's one where you can only watch movies in theaters, or stream them onto locked down devices like Apple TVs instead of general purpose computers. Try streaming movies on FreeBSD, Linux desktops or anything which is not macOS, iOS, Windows or Android!
    - robotresearcher 10y ago
      > The FSF's philosophical documents are pretty persuasive. The GPL, at the core of the FSF mission, explicitly and deliberately relies on copyright law for its legal effects.
      - krupan 10y ago
        https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/misinterpreting-copyright.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/misinterpreting-copyright.en....
        rayiner 10y ago
        The FSF is not opposed to copyright as a concept. You can argue over duration, but copyleft would not be possible if everything were in the public domain.
        dragonwriter 10y ago
        > The FSF is not opposed to copyright as a concept. You can argue over duration, but copyleft would not be possible if everything were in the public domain. Without copyright, arguably copyleft would be unnecessary, since the whole purpose of copyleft is to prevent non-Free code from being built on Free code, and without copyright, everything would be Free. (OTOH, given the GPLv3, maybe that's not correct in the FSFs view, since the GPLv3 implies that "Free" has a broader and industry-dependent definition that merely eliminating copyright-based limitations wouldn't satisfy, so maybe the FSF does need to be copyright maximalists to advance their idea of Freedom-compelled-by-copyleft-license.)
- ethanbond 10y ago
  Meanwhile... Let's all celebrate when the next x for y startup gets tens of millions in funding!
paulgb 10y ago
The fee also has to incorporate the possibility of losing the case, since it was taken on contingency.
imron 10y ago
> "Happy Birthday to You" is almost universally known in the English speaking world, even by children It's almost universally known in the non-English speaking world also. They lyrics change, but the music remains the same.
dogma1138 10y ago
>"Happy Birthday to You" is almost universally known in the English speaking world Happy Birthday To You has been translated to pretty much every language, it's been appropriated by so many nations and cultures that you would even be hearing it in ISIS controlled parts of Syria these days.

by ekidd 10y ago

forgotpwtomain 10y ago

It was a rather tongue in cheek comment. The assessment of value changes depending on where you begin your inquiry; if you look only at the immediate situation than effectively yes, these lawyers have provided a tangible public service. On the other-hand the entire branch of law in this case is providing no-benefit to civilization and it's only acts as a funnel for the transfer of wealth between entities (lawyers facilitate this transfer and benefit from it's continued practice which is definitionally parasitic since nothing of value is being created in the process).

rayiner 10y ago
Copyright creates enormous wealth. You can't have markets if you can't have transactions, and you can't have transactions in software if you don't have copyright protection. You're limited to this impoverished world where the software creator has to lock it behind a services API in order to monetize it. The world benefits enormously from just being able to sell software, movies, etc. as you would a physical product. A world without copyright is not one in which studios still make the AAA movies people want and just distribute them into the public domain. It's one where you can only watch movies in theaters, or stream them onto locked down devices like Apple TVs instead of general purpose computers.
- zeveb 10y ago
  > You can't have markets if you can't have transactions, and you can't have transactions in software if you don't have copyright protection. I'm not convinced that copyrighted software is, indeed, a good thing. The FSF's philosophical documents are pretty persuasive. > The world benefits enormously from just being able to sell software, movies, etc. as you would a physical product. Does it though? I've found that the best, most pleasant, most powerful, most flexible software I use is free. > It's one where you can only watch movies in theaters, or stream them onto locked down devices like Apple TVs instead of general purpose computers. Try streaming movies on FreeBSD, Linux desktops or anything which is not macOS, iOS, Windows or Android!
  - robotresearcher 10y ago
    > The FSF's philosophical documents are pretty persuasive. The GPL, at the core of the FSF mission, explicitly and deliberately relies on copyright law for its legal effects.
    - krupan 10y ago
      https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/misinterpreting-copyright.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/misinterpreting-copyright.en....
      - rayiner 10y ago
        The FSF is not opposed to copyright as a concept. You can argue over duration, but copyleft would not be possible if everything were in the public domain.
        dragonwriter 10y ago
        > The FSF is not opposed to copyright as a concept. You can argue over duration, but copyleft would not be possible if everything were in the public domain. Without copyright, arguably copyleft would be unnecessary, since the whole purpose of copyleft is to prevent non-Free code from being built on Free code, and without copyright, everything would be Free. (OTOH, given the GPLv3, maybe that's not correct in the FSFs view, since the GPLv3 implies that "Free" has a broader and industry-dependent definition that merely eliminating copyright-based limitations wouldn't satisfy, so maybe the FSF does need to be copyright maximalists to advance their idea of Freedom-compelled-by-copyleft-license.)
ethanbond 10y ago
Meanwhile... Let's all celebrate when the next x for y startup gets tens of millions in funding!

paulgb 10y ago

The fee also has to incorporate the possibility of losing the case, since it was taken on contingency.

imron 10y ago

> "Happy Birthday to You" is almost universally known in the English speaking world, even by children It's almost universally known in the non-English speaking world also. They lyrics change, but the music remains the same.

dogma1138 10y ago

>"Happy Birthday to You" is almost universally known in the English speaking world Happy Birthday To You has been translated to pretty much every language, it's been appropriated by so many nations and cultures that you would even be hearing it in ISIS controlled parts of Syria these days.