4 ms·

To be fair, I was pretty damn angsty at the time :) Always exciting to see this pop up someplace new. It's being translated into Polish for a textbook this yea

by loydb 10y ago

To be fair, I was pretty damn angsty at the time :) Always exciting to see this pop up someplace new. It's being translated into Polish for a textbook this year as well.

justinhensley 10y ago
How did you feel about it showing up in the critically acclaimed film, Hackers? That was my first exposure to it.
- loydb 10y ago
  Pleased, because I think I'm the answer to the trivia question "What was the first email address to ever appear in a major movie credit roll". Sad, because, damn, is that a bad movie.
  - api 10y ago
    I think it's a great bit of campy cinema. It's like Wet Hot American Summer with ravers and 90s cyberculture. It's a lot better today than it was when it was made. Instead of lame it feels charmingly funny and nostalgic.
    - justinhensley 10y ago
      I completely agree. I actually thought it was extremely cool even when it was released, but I was 12. While a wholly inaccurate portrayal of hacking or even computing, it did contribute to my fascination with both.
      - int_19h 10y ago
        For all the factual inaccuracies in this movie - which was like 99% of it - I think they have done an amazing job relaying the spirit of the manifesto - the general notion that hacking, as a culture, is really about challenging yourself and satisfying your curiosity.
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    I feel you on that. Tron and Sneakers are both more fun, and Sneakers captures computing more accurately. On the culture side, I don't know of any major films that capture computing culture. Charles Stross's Laundry series does a better job than most (You can still read The Atrocity Archives without a backround in computing, but you'll get this nagging feeling you're missing something), seeing as Stross is up to his eyeballs in computing. It's also the first piece of fiction I know of to reference Symbolics. And of course, the protagonist's name is Bob Oliver Francis Howard. Because that book just couldn't get any more in-jokey. But, you know, in a good way. "You" and "Daemon" also capture bits of computing fairly well.
    - ergothus 10y ago
      So many books in, and I never noticed his name...
      - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
        If you mean the protagonist's full name, it's only mentioned in "Pimpf" AFAIK. And even then, not directly. I had to have TvTropes help me put it together.
    - laumars 10y ago
      Antitrust[1] is good for getting the subtle details right while still having a dramatic plot for Hollywood. I quite liked War Games[2] as well. [1] http://gb.imdb.com/title/tt0218817/ http://gb.imdb.com/title/tt0218817/ [2] http://gb.imdb.com/title/tt0086567/ http://gb.imdb.com/title/tt0086567/
      - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
        Wargames isn't great on accuracy, but it's not awful, and it has a good story, not just tech-masturbation, so it gets the gold star. Haven't seen Antitrust.
  - laumars 10y ago
    I quite enjoyed Hacker, albeit to laugh at. But I've seen far worse "Hacker" themed movies. Though it party helps that Hackers has aged pretty well compared to many of the others. Going back to your point about being angst: if it's any consolation, that's how I felt as a teenager as well. I didn't come across your manifesto until quite some years after it was written but it definitely resonates with how I felt at the time as well.
    - kaybe 10y ago
      Well, for what it's worth, there's this comment on IT stuff in movies: "We write those scenes to be inaccurate and ridiculous on purpose. I'm a young writer in his mid-30's, computer and game savvy. Lots of us are. I guess you could call it a competition of one-upping other shows to see who can get the best/worst "zoomhance" sequence on the air. Sometimes the exec producers and directors are in on it, and other times we just try to get bits and lines into scripts. 90% of our TV viewing audience will never know the difference and honestly, we love it when threads like this get started and love reading the youtube comments. " https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/f2i7t/ive_written_for_tv_shows_like_csi_and_numbers/ https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/f2i7t/ive_written_f... The comments on that thread link to a lot of ridiculous moments of IT movie/TV history. (My google-fu is strong today.)
Roritharr 10y ago
This was actually read at one of our local events here after Aaron Swartz died. https://vimeo.com/57438877 https://vimeo.com/57438877
icc97 10y ago
Where else can you get a reply from the Hacker that wrote the Hackers Manifesto.
- uola 10y ago
  It's slightly anticlimactic when the comment being responded to is a casual dismissal completely missing the context of the text. I've seen plenty of stories on HN where there's some random flamewar on top and the authors insightful comments are at the bottom. For the backstory by the author you're better off with the talk given at HOPE in 2002. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tEnnvZbYek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tEnnvZbYek
  - loydb 10y ago
    I was about to jump on an airplane, and didn't really have time for a nuanced response. The OP comment is, likely, from someone who has no idea what hacker culture was like in the 1970s and early 1980s, so I can see how he doesn't find it very relevant to his life today. And he's absolutely right that it was angsty venting (I was 19, so I'll even allow adolescent). That doesn't mean that it didn't resonate with multiple generations of hackers in the 30 years since.
    - uola 10y ago
      Since the term hacker has become so widespread I think it's hard for people to appreciate the difference between scenes calling themselves hackers, but also to recognize other forms of computer subculture. I also think the previous commenter makes a mistake in not recognizing the influence of teenage angst on hacker culture, like many other subcultures. Young, mostly male, persons form groups, use nicknames, makes their own publications, rejects the (some) rules of society and try to decide who is the best is almost every subculture at the end of the last century. From punkrockers and ravers, to graffiti writers and street gangs. I think there's value in knowing how things were and what makes a culture.
  - icc97 10y ago
    I'd actually say quite the opposite. It suddenly made an article referring to something 30 years ago have life and relevence today. I hope it made the parent commenter feel awkward realising that the person he's insulting is metaphorically in the room. The humilty of @loydb's comment should hopefully add futher shame.
hutzlibu 10y ago
Do you see anything different, today? For example the curious argument... would just apply to the NSA as well...
igamer 10y ago
Sup bdrop. -Remagi
- loydb 10y ago
  Sup :) #agony4life
  - znpy 10y ago
    woah, 30 years-old inside jokes going on?
    - loydb 10y ago
      That one's a little more recent. Agony was our Everquest (and later WoW) guild. We raided together for over a decade. The core of the membership was silicon valley based, and since I travel there a lot, I ended up making many IRL friends that I still hang out with to this day from it. No, I don't MMO any more.
bitwize 10y ago
Hey Loyd. Face facts, you're never gonna live this one down. :) The document is emblematic of what social butterflies call the zeitgeist of an era. What was really more or less a bunch of kids messing around, they see as a revolution, akin to punk rock. "Conscience of a Hacker" seemed to validate their mythology of the 80s hacker as a cyberpunk revolutionary, so it will be preserved and repeated as part of the mythohistory of computing. Plus it was quoted in Hackers and will be immortal on the strength of that alone.

by loydb 10y ago

To be fair, I was pretty damn angsty at the time :) Always exciting to see this pop up someplace new. It's being translated into Polish for a textbook this year as well.

justinhensley 10y ago

How did you feel about it showing up in the critically acclaimed film, Hackers? That was my first exposure to it.

loydb 10y ago
Pleased, because I think I'm the answer to the trivia question "What was the first email address to ever appear in a major movie credit roll". Sad, because, damn, is that a bad movie.
- api 10y ago
  I think it's a great bit of campy cinema. It's like Wet Hot American Summer with ravers and 90s cyberculture. It's a lot better today than it was when it was made. Instead of lame it feels charmingly funny and nostalgic.
  - justinhensley 10y ago
    I completely agree. I actually thought it was extremely cool even when it was released, but I was 12. While a wholly inaccurate portrayal of hacking or even computing, it did contribute to my fascination with both.
    - int_19h 10y ago
      For all the factual inaccuracies in this movie - which was like 99% of it - I think they have done an amazing job relaying the spirit of the manifesto - the general notion that hacking, as a culture, is really about challenging yourself and satisfying your curiosity.
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  I feel you on that. Tron and Sneakers are both more fun, and Sneakers captures computing more accurately. On the culture side, I don't know of any major films that capture computing culture. Charles Stross's Laundry series does a better job than most (You can still read The Atrocity Archives without a backround in computing, but you'll get this nagging feeling you're missing something), seeing as Stross is up to his eyeballs in computing. It's also the first piece of fiction I know of to reference Symbolics. And of course, the protagonist's name is Bob Oliver Francis Howard. Because that book just couldn't get any more in-jokey. But, you know, in a good way. "You" and "Daemon" also capture bits of computing fairly well.
  - ergothus 10y ago
    So many books in, and I never noticed his name...
    - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
      If you mean the protagonist's full name, it's only mentioned in "Pimpf" AFAIK. And even then, not directly. I had to have TvTropes help me put it together.
  - laumars 10y ago
    Antitrust[1] is good for getting the subtle details right while still having a dramatic plot for Hollywood. I quite liked War Games[2] as well. [1] http://gb.imdb.com/title/tt0218817/ http://gb.imdb.com/title/tt0218817/ [2] http://gb.imdb.com/title/tt0086567/ http://gb.imdb.com/title/tt0086567/
    - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
      Wargames isn't great on accuracy, but it's not awful, and it has a good story, not just tech-masturbation, so it gets the gold star. Haven't seen Antitrust.
- laumars 10y ago
  I quite enjoyed Hacker, albeit to laugh at. But I've seen far worse "Hacker" themed movies. Though it party helps that Hackers has aged pretty well compared to many of the others. Going back to your point about being angst: if it's any consolation, that's how I felt as a teenager as well. I didn't come across your manifesto until quite some years after it was written but it definitely resonates with how I felt at the time as well.
  - kaybe 10y ago
    Well, for what it's worth, there's this comment on IT stuff in movies: "We write those scenes to be inaccurate and ridiculous on purpose. I'm a young writer in his mid-30's, computer and game savvy. Lots of us are. I guess you could call it a competition of one-upping other shows to see who can get the best/worst "zoomhance" sequence on the air. Sometimes the exec producers and directors are in on it, and other times we just try to get bits and lines into scripts. 90% of our TV viewing audience will never know the difference and honestly, we love it when threads like this get started and love reading the youtube comments. " https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/f2i7t/ive_written_for_tv_shows_like_csi_and_numbers/ https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/f2i7t/ive_written_f... The comments on that thread link to a lot of ridiculous moments of IT movie/TV history. (My google-fu is strong today.)

Roritharr 10y ago

This was actually read at one of our local events here after Aaron Swartz died. https://vimeo.com/57438877 https://vimeo.com/57438877

icc97 10y ago

Where else can you get a reply from the Hacker that wrote the Hackers Manifesto.

uola 10y ago
It's slightly anticlimactic when the comment being responded to is a casual dismissal completely missing the context of the text. I've seen plenty of stories on HN where there's some random flamewar on top and the authors insightful comments are at the bottom. For the backstory by the author you're better off with the talk given at HOPE in 2002. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tEnnvZbYek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tEnnvZbYek
- loydb 10y ago
  I was about to jump on an airplane, and didn't really have time for a nuanced response. The OP comment is, likely, from someone who has no idea what hacker culture was like in the 1970s and early 1980s, so I can see how he doesn't find it very relevant to his life today. And he's absolutely right that it was angsty venting (I was 19, so I'll even allow adolescent). That doesn't mean that it didn't resonate with multiple generations of hackers in the 30 years since.
  - uola 10y ago
    Since the term hacker has become so widespread I think it's hard for people to appreciate the difference between scenes calling themselves hackers, but also to recognize other forms of computer subculture. I also think the previous commenter makes a mistake in not recognizing the influence of teenage angst on hacker culture, like many other subcultures. Young, mostly male, persons form groups, use nicknames, makes their own publications, rejects the (some) rules of society and try to decide who is the best is almost every subculture at the end of the last century. From punkrockers and ravers, to graffiti writers and street gangs. I think there's value in knowing how things were and what makes a culture.
- icc97 10y ago
  I'd actually say quite the opposite. It suddenly made an article referring to something 30 years ago have life and relevence today. I hope it made the parent commenter feel awkward realising that the person he's insulting is metaphorically in the room. The humilty of @loydb's comment should hopefully add futher shame.

hutzlibu 10y ago

Do you see anything different, today? For example the curious argument... would just apply to the NSA as well...

igamer 10y ago

Sup bdrop. -Remagi

loydb 10y ago
Sup :) #agony4life
- znpy 10y ago
  woah, 30 years-old inside jokes going on?
  - loydb 10y ago
    That one's a little more recent. Agony was our Everquest (and later WoW) guild. We raided together for over a decade. The core of the membership was silicon valley based, and since I travel there a lot, I ended up making many IRL friends that I still hang out with to this day from it. No, I don't MMO any more.

bitwize 10y ago

Hey Loyd. Face facts, you're never gonna live this one down. :) The document is emblematic of what social butterflies call the zeitgeist of an era. What was really more or less a bunch of kids messing around, they see as a revolution, akin to punk rock. "Conscience of a Hacker" seemed to validate their mythology of the 80s hacker as a cyberpunk revolutionary, so it will be preserved and repeated as part of the mythohistory of computing. Plus it was quoted in Hackers and will be immortal on the strength of that alone.