10 ms·
Megaprocessor – A micro-processor built large
- adrianratnapala 10y agoThose LEDs! Those brightly lighty LEDs! Never mind the gates. Relaxen und watschen der blinkenlichten. Indeed the LEDs are the most important part since this project seems to be all about exposition. For example: > So how big is it ? Well an 8-bit adder is about a foot long (I use five of these) If he were optimising for size rather than clarity, it would be much smaller. Instead he has nice diagramtic outlines for the gates, and generous spaces between them. And those LEDs! Those brighty lighty LEDs.
- yitchelle 10y agoWhen I got started in electronics, I imagine exactly a little LED lighting up when a bit is flip in a memory chip. The on in the post is a great illustration! well done!
- roywiggins 10y agoDekatrons work like this :) The actual logical state of the thing is stored using a glowing plasma. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekatron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekatron https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF8CnG7ee-A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF8CnG7ee-A
- clarkmoody 10y agoThe clock speed ramp-up in the video was the coolest part :-)
- 0xTJ 10y agoI've really loved this project from the first time I saw mention of it. I've always dreamed of doing something like this, but have never been able to get the full technical abilities and resources to do it myself.
- bikamonki 10y agoReminds me of a machine I saw on Tokio's Miraikan: it demonstrates the Internet (TCP/IP) with colored balls, rails, tubes and whatnot. Wonderful post!
- rspeer 10y agoI saw that! Except when I saw it, it was mostly broken, perhaps under the DDoS of children putting too many bits into it too fast. When I saw it, you could send a message from one designated terminal to another, but that's just rolling balls on tracks. In the intended design you could choose which terminal it went to using an 8-bit IP address.
- ohazi 10y agoI guess it's a lot quieter than using relays... http://www.nablaman.com/relay/ http://www.nablaman.com/relay/
- elihu 10y agoI attended a talk by the guy who built this thing: http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~harry/Relay/ http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~harry/Relay/ He included a live demo. It made a very satisfying "kachunk-kachunk-kachunk" sound as it multiplied two numbers. It also made me realize that the threshold of complexity necessary to construct a practical turing-complee computing device is quite low.
- i336_ 10y agoIndeed, it doubled as a beatbox machine, with 99% perfect rhythm! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3wPBcmSb2U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3wPBcmSb2U (Unfortunately the small demo isn't doesn't run to completion, perhaps because the source material didn't include it, or because uploading it all would have been nontrivial)
- voycey 10y agoDoes he mention the clock speed of this thing? Wonder what the size comparison would be if it was built on say a 20nm scale?
- voycey 10y agoOh found it on the Reg article - 20khz (0.02Mips)
- ychompinator 10y agoI think he mentioned somewhere that he had it running at 50 khz now. http://megaprocessor.com/GBU_speed.html http://megaprocessor.com/GBU_speed.html - speed page!
- vardump 10y ago0.02 MIPS for real? I'd expect about 0.005 MIPS from a design like that. Many early CPUs took multiple clock cycles per instruction, anywhere between 2 and 10+. So all instructions are executed in a single clock cycle?
- vardump 10y agoTo add, here's a nice table of Meaningless Instructions Per Second for different CPUs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructions_per_second#Timeline_of_instructions_per_second https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructions_per_second#Timeli... It's pretty representative of 8 bit CPU true performance.
- cottsak 10y agoIn the video he has it running just over 1Hz so the flashing of the LEDs can be seen with the naked eye. As he brings it up to about 8KHz everything blurs and goes solid (as you'd expect).
- iliketosleep 10y agothis would be fantastic learning tool. i could definitely imagine it being used to great effect in a computer architecture course.
- diydsp 10y agoThe amazing thing about this is that you can't critique. I mean, you can say anything you want, but you can't stop it or change this guy's mind. :) It's pretty neat seeing him change the clock speed: https://youtu.be/z71h9XZbAWY?t=3m38s https://youtu.be/z71h9XZbAWY?t=3m38s
- avindroth 10y agoNow you can see what a computer is doing. Fantastic for understanding!
- craftkiller 10y agoReminds me of this DIY 4 bit processor: https://hackaday.io/project/665-4-bit-computer-built-from-discrete-transistors https://hackaday.io/project/665-4-bit-computer-built-from-di... The paranoid in me wonders if in the future we'll have to resort to projects like this for sensitive tasks to know our hardware hasn't been backdoored...
- cardamomo 10y ago> The paranoid in me wonders if in the future we'll have to resort to projects like this This has got me picturing my store-bought laptop with monstrously large, homemade processors bursting from the case that I can use for sensitive tasks. I wonder how close this is to the realm of possibility.
- anexprogrammer 10y agoWell. Having seen photos of the original Amiga prototype, as demoed at 1984 CES (hidden under a table). Each breadboarded custom chip was about twice the size of the machine case. Used about 7200 logic chips, so maybe not enough paranoia proofing? The 68000 was, of course, standard. I'm sure a Radeon and i5 would only be a bit larger. The internet may be obsolete by the time you're done wiring. ;) Photo here http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2007/08/a-history-of-the-amiga-part-3/1/ http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2007/08/a-history-of-the-amig...
- Renaud 10y agoHadn't see the pictures of the Lorraine prototype before. The article you linked refers to breadboards but that's not what is shown on the picture and it's unlikely that much more than very basic concepts were built using breadboard. Instead people would use wire a much more reliable technique for building prototypes and very low volume productions. Wire wrapping involves boards with pre-drilled holes in which you insert IC sockets with elongated pins. You then wrap a few turns of wire around the pin and route your wire to another one. That's what we see in the picture and others of the same prototype. http://obligement.free.fr/gfx2/lorraine_cartes_5.jpg http://obligement.free.fr/gfx2/lorraine_cartes_5.jpg
- Hydraulix989 10y agoReminds me of the MOnSter 6502 project that did the same thing with a 6502 CPU. It was actually shown at the Bay Area Maker's Fair: MOnSter 6502 monster6502.com
- kens 10y agoThere's also the MOnSter 6502, an exact copy of the 6502 microprocessor built with discrete transistors on a 12"x15" board. It's operational and Apple Integer Basic runs successfully on it, slightly slower than the real chip. It's quite impressive, since unlike the real processor, the MOnSter 6502 has a bunch of LEDs indicating the internal state. See http://monster6502.com/ http://monster6502.com/
- anexprogrammer 10y agoI'd forgotten with current 1bn transistor counts that it ran with just 4k! See http://www.visual6502.org http://www.visual6502.org for a great visual sim of a chip operating.
- AceJohnny2 10y agoThe best part about the MOnSter 6502 is you can control the frequency through a potentiometer :) A really excellent way to switch between actually seeing the individual instructions being decoded and executed and getting something fast enough to be (barely) usable!
- userbinator 10y agoWhat's really attractive to me is that it's also an existing, "real" architecture instead of a custom one-off (which may have been designed specifically to ease a particular implementation.) It would be fun to see a discrete 8080, Z80, or even 8086, for much the same reason.
- Retr0spectrum 10y ago8080 would probably be doable, but the Z80 has over double the transistor count, so it would be (even more) impractical to construct. The 8086 has an order of magnitude more transistors. Would definitely be very cool to see though.
- creshal 10y ago> which may have been designed specifically to ease a particular implementation To be fair, so are all the "real" architectures. 8-bit chips especially are nothing but trade-offs to keep transistor count down.
- zw123456 10y agoWe see these types of postings here from time to time and it always brings to mind the famous quote from Edmund Hillary when asked why he climbed Mt. Everest. If one wants to go to 39,000 feet you can get on a commercial airliner and do so or pretty close. Similarly, I could buy a microprocessor board (e.g. RPI for $25 or so) but this guy climbed the Mt. Everest of computer, "because he wanted to".
- abraae 10y agoI preferred his words on achieving it: "we've knocked the bastard off". Those words could have bee justly spake on getting this thing working. Incredible.
- tromp 10y agoIt was George Mallory who is famously quoted as having replied to the question "Why did you want to climb Mount Everest?" with the retort "Because it's there". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Mallory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Mallory
- pklausler 10y ago29,029' or 8848m.
- redblacktree 10y agoThe project is fantastic, and I'd love to see it in person. However, that might be the worst game of Tetris ever memorialized in a YouTube video. I guess he was too busy building this awesome machine.
- agildehaus 10y agoIt belongs in a museum! Seriously, that's quite an amazing project.
- ChuckMcM 10y agoI've followed this project and really enjoyed it. I've built small versions of various circuits, a core memory bit, a 4 bit adder, etc, but never even considered something of this scale as practical. I really hope the London Science Museum buys it and puts it along the wall next to the Difference Engine[1] (sigh, they closed their exhibit). This definitely belongs somewhere that the public could experience it though! [1] ARGH! They closed the exhibit -- http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/visitmuseum/plan_your_visit/exhibitions/computing http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/visitmuseum/plan_your_visit/...
- jve 10y agoYes, they closed it, because that was the deal: http://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/business/information-technology/babbages-difference-engine-heads-for-california-2008-04/ http://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/business/information-t... and http://www.computerhistory.org/babbage/modernsequel/ http://www.computerhistory.org/babbage/modernsequel/ "The complete working Babbage engine is on public display at the Science Museum in London. A duplicate engine and printer, a 'second original', the Babbage Difference Engine No.2 was completed for a private benefactor of the project, Nathan Myhrvold, formerly chief technology officer and Group VP at Microsoft. The Babbage Difference Engine No 2. was on displayed and demonstrated from May 2008 to January 2016."
- ChuckMcM 10y agoHere's the thing, as I understood it the Science Museum in London got to keep theirs, the second one, would go through the Computer History Museum for a year, and then on to Nathan. Except if you read my link, the London Science Museum has taken theirs (which is not Nathan's) off display. That was what I was saying "Argh!" about.
- makomk 10y agoApparently the Computing gallery is closed so it can be replaced with a new Mathematics gallery. Hopefully that will manage to incorporate the Difference Engine somewhere.
- quodestabsurdum 10y agoThis reminds me of some other fascinating projects: The Clock[1] and The Tower[2]. Several years ago I thought about building a dead-bug style Christmas tree for a decoration competition. Projects like these continually remind me that when we're not optimizing for space, you really can make something functional _and_ beautiful. [1]: http://techno-logic-art.com/clock.htm http://techno-logic-art.com/clock.htm [2]: http://techno-logic-art.com/tower.htm http://techno-logic-art.com/tower.htm
- gggggggg 10y agoQuestion: is there a market for servers twice the size they are. But a fraction of the cost. I for example have really consolidated servers in recent years. VMs are fantastic. But the result is that I have lots of Data Center space spare. I would love to buy servers of similar power consumption but larger foot print, for less dollars than small ones. Assuming that a lot of limitations and cost go into shrinking current systems. Or are there other issues like distance between components that then come into play?
- grandalf 10y agoYou can do this by buying hardware that is a year or two old.
- userbinator 10y agoDue to how IC fabrication works, and the laws of physics, that is not really possible. Larger ICs will definitely cost more simply because less fit on a single wafer --- and defects will be more common, use more power because to use the water analogy there is more 'inertia' to move around the circuits, and also be slower as a result.
- walrus01 10y agoYou could put in place servers with larger than normal chassis (4U?) and slow, low speed fans, 55W TDP passively cooled CPUs with big heatsinks on them. But I am curious what your power budget is, what kind of AC circuits are we talking about for each cabinet?
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- PhasmaFelis 10y agoI would guess that, all other things being equal, you'd need more power and generate more heat, because there's more resistive wire to push electrons through. I could be completely wrong, though.
- i336_ 10y agoMaybe see if you can turn up old 4U or 8U chassis, and reuse them with old motherboards you have or find lying around. As another commentator said, airflow will be excellent, and you'd have lots of space for local disks too. If your situation allows it, you could rent out the spare space you have, either by providing standard colocation or by racking old but usable stuff you have spare and making it available (either the real hardware or VMs). Depending on your location and what your pricing could be, this could be a nice side project. One or two cabinets could net a couple hundred (maybe thousand) per month easily, I think. Another thing: maybe look into engineering-sample (ES) chips (like Xeons) on eBay. For some reason the market is flooded with them, so snap them up while they're around, if you can. You could build some nice kit with them :P [PS. If the idea of that side project sounds interesting - I wouldn't mind low-scale sysadmin experience, if it would be helpful. My email's in my profile.]
- orblivion 10y agoWell, that's one way to make completely open hardware :-) I wonder if it can run GPG.
- epx 10y agoLike a computer from a 1960s movie - computers as art meant them!
- jamesdavid 10y agoHa this is timely for me ... last night I laid out an ALU in eagle using 7400 logic and was going to document the build of a 7400-based programmable processor.
- i336_ 10y agoThat would likely be interesting to quite a few people here, definitely post it if (hopefully when) you get it going.
- userbinator 10y agoYou may find this interesting: http://www.homebrewcpu.com/ http://www.homebrewcpu.com/
- dang 10y agoLots of previous submissions, but the major thread (with lots of comments from the author!—maybe he'll show up again) was https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9755742 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9755742. Since that was over a year ago, we won't count this one as a dupe.
- rabidrat 10y agoAlso because it was finished since then.
- jimmytidey 10y agoI'm watching the video thinking, wow, this guy has an amazing shed. Then at the end you realise it's in his living room.
- mitnk 10y agoseems an implementation of the book - Code https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JDMPOK2/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JDMPOK2/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?...
- bogomipz 10y agoWhat a madman! I mean this in a good way. This is really awesome. The link for "Stepping Stones" and worth a watch. I hope he finishes and does 8 through 10 on the video todo list. I hope this finds a permanent public home at some point. This would be great addition to any technical museum or exhibition. Kudos!
- known 10y agoInteresting stuff
- elt0n 10y agoHahaha this is so complicated xD
- matteuan 10y agoFantastic. That's all what I have dreamed when I studied Computer Architecture.
- amelius 10y agoI'd like to see a story of somebody building their own IC fab in their garage.
- gravypod 10y agoThis channel might be of interest to you: https://youtu.be/-Qph8BNrnLY https://youtu.be/-Qph8BNrnLY One of my favorite channels as she's done many projects I've had interest in.
- peter303 10y agoAn extreme case is LEGO logic gates: https://www.randomwraith.com/logic.html https://www.randomwraith.com/logic.html
- Practicality 10y agoDoesn't the mega and micro cancel and we just have a processor? :) [Edit Addition: This isn't just a math joke, his mega-processor is exactly the size a processor was before micro-technology made them a million times smaller... so making something at 1/million scale scaled up million/1 makes it the same size as the original.]
- snissn 10y agoThe last picture in the article implies to me that it's running windows, is that the case, or did I misunderstand something?
- dyladan 10y agoI would say that more likely that is just a separate computer running windows for research/programming/design/cat videos/etc
- jhallenworld 10y agoI agree with him that the ~$25 Lattice Mach FPGA breakout boards are outstanding (but these days MachXO3 versions are available). They have an on-board FTDI FT2232 chip which provides JTAG programming of the FPGA, plus very key, an extra UART. With just one cable you power the FPGA, configure it and then talk to your design through the UART. They are the FPGA version of ST's Nucleo boards (which have built in "ST-LINK" for programming and debugging plus extra UART).
- DeadReckoning 10y agoWatching the guy play tetris made me cringe