6 ms·

> What happens to that segment of the population when/if Airbnb completely kills off hotels in a particular geographic location? Someone makes Airbnb for folk

by shocks 10y ago

> What happens to that segment of the population when/if Airbnb completely kills off hotels in a particular geographic location? Someone makes Airbnb for folk with mobility problems and makes a killing.

GuiA 10y ago
What if it's not profitable to do that on its own? The "free market takes care of everything" argument is an idealistic position, not something based in reality.
- tobyg123 10y ago
  The core of the article is saying that you can't satisfy everyone, and the point of the replier was to point out that, if the need is that great, and there are such large amounts of people with the same issue, the free market will produce an alternative.
  - jcoffland 10y ago
    You are still assuming that great need and profitability go hand in hand. The issue being discussed is specifically the cases where they do not.
  - falcolas 10y ago
    What if the need is great, but there isn't a lot of extra money to be made? Should the minority with disabilities be forced to pay extra to convince someone to provide them with otherwise identical functionality? Many accommodations, if not federally mandated, simply wouldn't happen. For example, handicapped parking spots. People who use those spots are technically capable of using other parking locations as well, and the current handicapped parking spots are usually located in prime areas.
    - riboflava 10y ago
      Yes to your second question. Maybe the government can offer a tax return bonus to cover it. And pump more money into fully general cures for all disabilities. I'm not against making disabled peoples' lives better, but focusing entirely on the supplier side is a mistake.
      - SolaceQuantum 10y ago
        > And pump more money into fully general cures for all disabilities I find this a disingenuous interpretation of how certain disabilities work and how "curable" they may be. Certain degenerative conditions are hardly understood, or the treatment requires time and reasonable accommodations from society such as the need for ramps and wheelchair accessibility. I do not know a way for non-supply-side costs to factor in "being able to use a wheelchair and still function in society".
      - falcolas 10y ago
        What is the cure for having amputated legs while being poor? The cure for a lack of legs is typically prosthetics with extensive therapy. Incredibly expensive and labor intensive. The cure for amputated legs while being poor is a wheelchair; not as easily managed without additional space when parked, and if there are no ramps up to your building, your business is effectively inaccessible. But ramps cost extra money. So do wheelchair accessible curbs. You need more space in the isles, specialized bathroom stalls, special door handles, support for someone closer to the floor at your counters... Lots of things we take for granted today, but which didn't exist for many years before the ADA.
        riboflava 10y ago
        Yeah, and sometimes businesses have been able to collect credits from the government for compliance with such-and-such. When they're forced to bleed money though (in this instance all that extra space adds up by itself, plus the opportunity costs -- imagine the pushback if airplane seats had to be way bigger and roomier!), and not all bled money can be passed on to the consumers, and even if it's done in the name of some good cause, the fact that it's still forced bleeding is what I don't really like, and would appreciate less of. I'm kind of big on cyborg technology and other futurist ideas (like brain emulations). Varying degrees are expensive and not even available right now, but a large part of that is a serious lack of funding which in turn cuts business opportunities. (I would bet if society focused more efforts and money on general human augmentation instead of just helping the disabled, the disabled would come along for the ride since the non-disabled market is so much greater. As I touched on in another comment, the second-order effects often provide more value for these niche markets than targeting the niche markets directly.) While we transition to better tech that even the poor can afford we can still consider forced money bleeding, but I'd like to consider demand side solutions too.
  - PeterisP 10y ago
    The original point was, however, that we do need to serve certain groups even if the number of such people is small and according to the free market it's clearly not worthwhile to produce an alternative. The way we do currently is a social contract (enforced in law) that mandates exactly the point that you should serve everyone and are required to make accommodations for e.g disabled people.
- Normal_gaussian 10y ago
  Regulations catch up. Often the reason the regulations are there in the first place is because otherwise the need wouldn't be met. That is the reality around you now
- blfr 10y ago
  If it's not profitable then why should Airbnb be the one to subsidize it? Why not the government? Or some charity? Or you? We don't expect anyone who meets a homeless person to offer them a place on their couch. That would be unfair. And an additional incentive to avoid homeless people. We have (well, not everywhere but at least we aim for) a systemic solution. There are homeless shelters for example, sometimes run as charities, sometimes tax-supported (ie. everyone is required to chip in). It's weird when we try to offload these problems on the first person who touches them.
  - empath75 10y ago
    Yeah, those people shouldn't have made the choice to be disabled.
    - jdminhbg 10y ago
      How is this at all a response to the parent poster?
  - Lawtonfogle 10y ago
    Why should anyone have to support them at all? It comes down to they and their supporters convinced society we should care about them and we decided those profiting off the majority to be the ones bearing the cost of the minority. Why do I have to bake a cake for a gay wedding if I do such for straight weddings? Because the people who want that requirement have won the level of support needed to have legal support.
    - fennecfoxen 10y ago
      Circular reasoning.
      - wruza 10y ago
        Isn't it the way society works?
  - crdoconnor 10y ago
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

by shocks 10y ago

GuiA 10y ago

What if it's not profitable to do that on its own? The "free market takes care of everything" argument is an idealistic position, not something based in reality.

tobyg123 10y ago
The core of the article is saying that you can't satisfy everyone, and the point of the replier was to point out that, if the need is that great, and there are such large amounts of people with the same issue, the free market will produce an alternative.
- jcoffland 10y ago
  You are still assuming that great need and profitability go hand in hand. The issue being discussed is specifically the cases where they do not.
- falcolas 10y ago
  What if the need is great, but there isn't a lot of extra money to be made? Should the minority with disabilities be forced to pay extra to convince someone to provide them with otherwise identical functionality? Many accommodations, if not federally mandated, simply wouldn't happen. For example, handicapped parking spots. People who use those spots are technically capable of using other parking locations as well, and the current handicapped parking spots are usually located in prime areas.
  - riboflava 10y ago
    Yes to your second question. Maybe the government can offer a tax return bonus to cover it. And pump more money into fully general cures for all disabilities. I'm not against making disabled peoples' lives better, but focusing entirely on the supplier side is a mistake.
    - SolaceQuantum 10y ago
      > And pump more money into fully general cures for all disabilities I find this a disingenuous interpretation of how certain disabilities work and how "curable" they may be. Certain degenerative conditions are hardly understood, or the treatment requires time and reasonable accommodations from society such as the need for ramps and wheelchair accessibility. I do not know a way for non-supply-side costs to factor in "being able to use a wheelchair and still function in society".
    - falcolas 10y ago
      What is the cure for having amputated legs while being poor? The cure for a lack of legs is typically prosthetics with extensive therapy. Incredibly expensive and labor intensive. The cure for amputated legs while being poor is a wheelchair; not as easily managed without additional space when parked, and if there are no ramps up to your building, your business is effectively inaccessible. But ramps cost extra money. So do wheelchair accessible curbs. You need more space in the isles, specialized bathroom stalls, special door handles, support for someone closer to the floor at your counters... Lots of things we take for granted today, but which didn't exist for many years before the ADA.
      - riboflava 10y ago
        Yeah, and sometimes businesses have been able to collect credits from the government for compliance with such-and-such. When they're forced to bleed money though (in this instance all that extra space adds up by itself, plus the opportunity costs -- imagine the pushback if airplane seats had to be way bigger and roomier!), and not all bled money can be passed on to the consumers, and even if it's done in the name of some good cause, the fact that it's still forced bleeding is what I don't really like, and would appreciate less of. I'm kind of big on cyborg technology and other futurist ideas (like brain emulations). Varying degrees are expensive and not even available right now, but a large part of that is a serious lack of funding which in turn cuts business opportunities. (I would bet if society focused more efforts and money on general human augmentation instead of just helping the disabled, the disabled would come along for the ride since the non-disabled market is so much greater. As I touched on in another comment, the second-order effects often provide more value for these niche markets than targeting the niche markets directly.) While we transition to better tech that even the poor can afford we can still consider forced money bleeding, but I'd like to consider demand side solutions too.
- PeterisP 10y ago
  The original point was, however, that we do need to serve certain groups even if the number of such people is small and according to the free market it's clearly not worthwhile to produce an alternative. The way we do currently is a social contract (enforced in law) that mandates exactly the point that you should serve everyone and are required to make accommodations for e.g disabled people.
Normal_gaussian 10y ago
Regulations catch up. Often the reason the regulations are there in the first place is because otherwise the need wouldn't be met. That is the reality around you now
blfr 10y ago
If it's not profitable then why should Airbnb be the one to subsidize it? Why not the government? Or some charity? Or you? We don't expect anyone who meets a homeless person to offer them a place on their couch. That would be unfair. And an additional incentive to avoid homeless people. We have (well, not everywhere but at least we aim for) a systemic solution. There are homeless shelters for example, sometimes run as charities, sometimes tax-supported (ie. everyone is required to chip in). It's weird when we try to offload these problems on the first person who touches them.
- empath75 10y ago
  Yeah, those people shouldn't have made the choice to be disabled.
  - jdminhbg 10y ago
    How is this at all a response to the parent poster?
- Lawtonfogle 10y ago
  Why should anyone have to support them at all? It comes down to they and their supporters convinced society we should care about them and we decided those profiting off the majority to be the ones bearing the cost of the minority. Why do I have to bake a cake for a gay wedding if I do such for straight weddings? Because the people who want that requirement have won the level of support needed to have legal support.
  - fennecfoxen 10y ago
    Circular reasoning.
    - wruza 10y ago
      Isn't it the way society works?
- crdoconnor 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]