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> wish companies, if possible, throttled layoffs a bit more The uncertainty will cause a lot of stress. As a red badge at Cisco some years back, layoff talks u
by tushar-r 10y ago
> wish companies, if possible, throttled layoffs a bit more
The uncertainty will cause a lot of stress. As a red badge at Cisco some years back, layoff talks used to cause me serious anxiety, even though my parent company would just move me to another project.
The bigger problem with Cisco is that people speculate about layoffs and there are continual leaks. This really upsets employees, and causes considerable emotional pain for them.
- iofj 10y agoAs someone who made the mistake in working for an international office, and caught the train out almost 10 years ago now, I agree. I escaped one set of layoffs and then kept thinking I'm next. I was next. Got fired at end of financial year, along with a couple thousand others. Had a new job before the day was out (another result of said anxiety).
- gaius 10y agoGetting fired and getting laid off are very different things!
- fgonzag 10y agoAm I missing something? They are the exact same thing. The company decides to terminate your employment contract, as opposed to you making the decision.
- function_seven 10y ago"Fired" is used to refer to termination for cause. As in, you're being let go because you screwed up. Being laid off is termination without cause. You're just being let go as part of a workforce reduction.
- gaius 10y agoExactly - getting laid off means that the job you did no longer exists - it is unrelated to your personal skills, performance, productivity, etc etc.
- biot 10y agoAdditionally, being laid off usually results in at least a respectable severance package. Being fired generally means you only get the minimum legally owed to you.
- nibnib 10y agoIt also effects your ability to find work. Being laid off can be completely out of your hands and isn't always something that works against you.
- gaius 10y agoThere is no stigma attached to getting laid off, at least not when interviewing at anywhere sane. People understand that it just happens sometime.
- sokoloff 10y ago"For cause" usually means something much worse than "poor performance". That term is generally harassment, fraud/embezzling, other illegal acts, gross insubordination, etc. Being fired because you are performing poorly in your job is, crazily enough, not "fired for cause" but simply "fired". Being fired "for cause" usually makes one ineligible for unemployment income.
- function_seven 10y agoThanks. I used the "for cause" a little sloppily. A sales person who misses quota will still be able to get unemployment benefits, while another salesperson who likes to walk around the office without pants will probably not.
- jotux 10y agoThe practical difference is the ability to collect unemployment benefits. If you're fired you may not be able to collect benefits depending on the situation and state where you live.
- karma_vaccum123 10y agoGood companies also typically offer some documentation that the termination was not performance-based.
- TheCoelacanth 10y agoFired means that they don't want you doing your job. Laid off means that they don't want anyone doing your job.
- function_seven 10y agoDamn, that's concise and to the point. Thanks.
- Gustomaximus 10y agoTo add to this point often stronger employees will exit when this ongoing pain is happening. No-one likes the uncertainty but your best guys can move the fastest. And general morale. Redundancies are absolutely best done as one-and-done. Also, would this be a record number of staff laid off in one go 'by choice'? 14,000 is huge. Poor guys.
- surge 10y agoYep, happened at my last job. I survived several rounds or layoffs, each with my manager reassuring me that my job wasn't being targetted. Even so, each time a few of our best people would find something elsewhere, even if their position wasn't being eliminated and they ended up filling it. Then my manager left the company which was my first warning sign, some people started finding positions in different areas of the business...then I heard rumors and ambigious announcements again. Me and several of our best people left shortly before hearing that our entire department would be transitioned to a contract position with an outsourced provider, which made replacing our positions that much harder. It wasn't quite a layoff but would mean we'd no longer be full time employees with all the benefits that entails and the contractor could basically do what they wanted with us after a certain amount of time. For those that stayed, I heard its not been great.