4 ms·

What you call a top-down world governance project, I call a expansion in international co-operation after the disaster that was the first 2 World Wars. That in

What you call a top-down world governance project, I call a expansion in international co-operation after the disaster that was the first 2 World Wars. That international cooperation has undoubtable made the world a safer place. It has seen the expansion of the middle class in BRIC. Between 1981 and 2005, poverty dropped from 84% to 18% in China, 80% to 42% in India, 17% to 8% in Brazil. Between 1990 and 2012 the average global life expectancy jumped by a full 6 years! Hell, if you lived in Liberia, it was 20 years! Compared to the chaos of the first half of the 20th century (not to mention parts of the second half), the world is absolutely peaceful and a better place for just about everyone.

FussyZeus 10y ago
To be totally fair though that peace owes a big part of itself to the MAD concept and the fact that all the strongest nations worldwide have enough firepower pointed at each other with itchy fingers on the triggers to annihilate the planet 5 times over. Not saying it's a bad thing, just saying that the hippies were wrong and we got a lot further by threatening each other than we ever did holding hands and singing songs.
- viewer5 10y ago
  Did the major nations of the world ever hold hands and sing songs? Has that actually been done? I'm not super up on my world history, but I don't remember that ever being a thing.
  - ethbro 10y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Nations https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Nations
justavoice 10y ago
sure the poverty rate dropped - it took time to train people to replace the millions that were killed by Mao and company!
coldtea 10y ago
>That international cooperation has undoubtable made the world a safer place. It has seen the expansion of the middle class in BRIC. Between 1981 and 2005, poverty dropped from 84% to 18% in China, 80% to 42% in India, 17% to 8% in Brazil. Between 1990 and 2012 the average global life expectancy jumped by a full 6 years! Hell, if you lived in Liberia, it was 20 years! It's the withdrawal of colonialism (due to WWII exhaustion, national freedom movements, and political pressure) and the end of the 2 superpowers Cold-War peripheral collusions, that gave those countries a better chance to catch up and develop themselves. Not some "international co-operation" coming top-down.
notahacker 10y ago
The "world elite" and "global governance" were also directly responsible for things like the elimination of smallpox. I'm not sure either that ICRC people encouraging more of this is the problem or Trump vacillating between isolationism and threatening to "bomb the shit" out of countries represents anything that vaguely represents a solution.
geowwy 10y ago
Empires are great for wealth creation. America has constructed an empire-that's-not-an-empire through internationalist orgs like NATO, the IMF, the UN, etc. Before we had Pax Britannica and Pax Romana. Now we have Pax Americana. But probably Pax Americana will go just like Pax Britannica and Pax Romana. I don't think we've reached the end of history yet.
marcosdumay 10y ago
> It has seen the expansion of the middle class in BRIC. Between 1981 and 2005 1981 - 2005, also known as the period when the US and Russia couldn't maintain their hegemony over B, I and C anymore.

FussyZeus 10y ago

To be totally fair though that peace owes a big part of itself to the MAD concept and the fact that all the strongest nations worldwide have enough firepower pointed at each other with itchy fingers on the triggers to annihilate the planet 5 times over. Not saying it's a bad thing, just saying that the hippies were wrong and we got a lot further by threatening each other than we ever did holding hands and singing songs.

viewer5 10y ago
Did the major nations of the world ever hold hands and sing songs? Has that actually been done? I'm not super up on my world history, but I don't remember that ever being a thing.
- ethbro 10y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Nations https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Nations

justavoice 10y ago

sure the poverty rate dropped - it took time to train people to replace the millions that were killed by Mao and company!

coldtea 10y ago

>That international cooperation has undoubtable made the world a safer place. It has seen the expansion of the middle class in BRIC. Between 1981 and 2005, poverty dropped from 84% to 18% in China, 80% to 42% in India, 17% to 8% in Brazil. Between 1990 and 2012 the average global life expectancy jumped by a full 6 years! Hell, if you lived in Liberia, it was 20 years! It's the withdrawal of colonialism (due to WWII exhaustion, national freedom movements, and political pressure) and the end of the 2 superpowers Cold-War peripheral collusions, that gave those countries a better chance to catch up and develop themselves. Not some "international co-operation" coming top-down.

notahacker 10y ago

The "world elite" and "global governance" were also directly responsible for things like the elimination of smallpox. I'm not sure either that ICRC people encouraging more of this is the problem or Trump vacillating between isolationism and threatening to "bomb the shit" out of countries represents anything that vaguely represents a solution.

geowwy 10y ago

Empires are great for wealth creation. America has constructed an empire-that's-not-an-empire through internationalist orgs like NATO, the IMF, the UN, etc. Before we had Pax Britannica and Pax Romana. Now we have Pax Americana. But probably Pax Americana will go just like Pax Britannica and Pax Romana. I don't think we've reached the end of history yet.

marcosdumay 10y ago

> It has seen the expansion of the middle class in BRIC. Between 1981 and 2005 1981 - 2005, also known as the period when the US and Russia couldn't maintain their hegemony over B, I and C anymore.