4 ms·

My old boss had a fancy top of the line Audi with all the trimmings. One day a fault developed with the seatbelt sensors on the rear seats. He kept getting the

My old boss had a fancy top of the line Audi with all the trimmings. One day a fault developed with the seatbelt sensors on the rear seats. He kept getting the warning beeps to fasten the belts when no one was on those seats. It was still in warranty so he took it get fixed. The dealer pulled his driving logs from the on board computer/data recorder and said his driving was too aggressive and that violated the warranty. Truth be told his driving was terrible. I accepted a lift home from him once, and only once because his driving scared the bejeesus out of me. But that being said how could that affect the pressure sensors in the rear seats? It took some solicitors letters to get the dealer to agree to a warranty repair. I think its inevitable that manufacturers are going to use all this data to stop you claiming under your warranty. "Oh dear you slammed your door too hard one day, I'm afraid that invalidates your warranty". Insurers will demand this data in before giving you a quote. Its also likely that there will come a time when this data will be used to help price your car if you sell it or trade it in. And of course the government will want to use positioning data to automatically issue parking fines. And this ignores all the obvious security risks that come along with this sort of stuff, for example all those BMW keyless car thefts.

beachstartup 10y ago
curious, which dealer is this? do you know if they were directed by the manufacturer to do this, or they just did this on their own?
- DoubleGlazing 10y ago
  An Audi dealer in Dublin. I don't know the actual specifics, just that my boss came in to work one day raging about it. I suspect the dealer was just looking for excuses to not do the fix. But just a cursory read around the web seems to imply that this is happening more and more and to be honest I think it would be unwise to assume that manufacturers wont make it an official policy at some point.
  - yareally 10y ago
    Dublin Ireland or Dublin Ohio? I live Ohio and know there's an Audi dealer in our Dublin. I have an Audi and would like to avoid that dealer if possible.
    - tedunangst 10y ago
      I would guess there's more solicitors in Ireland.
    - beachstartup 10y ago
      he's probably referring to the dublin in the east bay area, ca. it looks like there's an audi right next door in livermore, ca which he was probably referring to.
    - DoubleGlazing 10y ago
      Dublin Ireland. We have an infestation of middle aged men who drive mid to high end Audis (always painted black) with a set of gold clubs permanently stored in the boot.
- jlgaddis 10y ago
  My assumption would be that Audi told them this. The dealer is normally more than happy to perform repairs under warranty, as this is easy, guaranteed money for them. It's basically the same reason they love getting exclusive deals with insurance companies.
  - tadfisher 10y ago
    Sometimes perverse incentives are set up; for example, the manufacturer may offer a "bonus" payment if the number of warranty claims serviced by the dealer in a quarter is below a specified target. Sometimes, "book time" to fix a particular defect is lower than the actual time, and manufacturers pay out on book time. However you spin it, the dealer-manufacturer relationship ends up working in favor of the manufacturer, as they control the inventory and the bottom line of the dealer's balance sheet.
    - beachstartup 10y ago
      yes - also, some dealers refuse to perform warranty repairs with cars that have aftermarket parts... others are totally fine with it, and will even install aftermarket parts and perform warranty work afterwards. the whole system is a mess. yeesh.
sliverstorm 10y ago
Its also likely that there will come a time when this data will be used to help price your car if you sell it or trade it in. That, at least, is potentially defensible. How the car is treated & how/where it was driven do have a big impact on long term reliability. In fact, if you are a gentle driver who lives in a good location and operates the vehicle under optimal conditions, you could expect to get more for your vehicle- today, because the buyer cannot easily tell, they pay you somewhere in the middle. Insurers will demand this data in before giving you a quote. Same goes here, once it becomes commonplace, insurers will be able to reliability identify "golden goose" customers who, based on driving patterns, are exceptionally unlikely to get in an accident. They will fight eachother tooth and nail for these drivers. I think its inevitable that manufacturers are going to use all this data to stop you claiming under your warranty. "Oh dear you slammed your door too hard one day, I'm afraid that invalidates your warranty". Thankfully we have Magnuson-Moss, so while bad apples might give you the occasional runaround, the law is on your side.
- takeda 10y ago
  > Same goes here, once it becomes commonplace, insurers will be able to reliability identify "golden goose" customers who, based on driving patterns, are exceptionally unlikely to get in an accident. They will fight eachother tooth and nail for these drivers. I understand that this is what insurers are striving for, and same with good drivers, the problem with it is that personalizing prices to everyone essentially makes insurance useless, since you'll essentially end up paying how much damages would really cost if you had no insurance + extra premium, because insurance wants to make money The whole idea of insurance is that you have a pool of people and there is probability that percentage of it will have an accident, the remaining group subsidizes essentially creating a safety net. All of that is negated when insurance prices individually, since you'll always lose on it.
  - bbcbasic 10y ago
    You'd need something akin to Minority Report to get to the point where your premium is what you'll claim. And that would be excellent. Peppercorn insurance for drivers who won't have an accident. Killers will effectively be banned from driving. Zero traffic deaths.
forgetsusername 10y ago
>My old boss had a fancy top of the line Audi with all the trimmings. I'd love to know how the dealer could justify saying a high-end Audi, a car (and company) with an established racing pedigree, was driven "too aggressively". Look at their commercials for crying out loud.
- throwanem 10y ago
  I imagine it was quite easy, given the typical automobile dealer's complete lack of shame.
- outside1234 10y ago
  Audi is part of Volkswagen. That should answer everything at this point.
- superuser2 10y ago
  The "tracking" community embraces the fact that racing puts incredible strain on the car. Half of the hobby is the money and time you pour into service and repairs after every track day. There are no illusions that this is something the warranty would or should cover.
superuser2 10y ago
>Insurers will demand this data in before giving you a quote. This isn't obvious. Sure, some irresponsible driving behavior is evident in braking, acceleration, speed, etc. data. I suspect the much larger pool of bad drivers is people who are braking and accelerating very gently because they are spaced out, drowsy, or on their phones.

beachstartup 10y ago

curious, which dealer is this? do you know if they were directed by the manufacturer to do this, or they just did this on their own?

DoubleGlazing 10y ago
An Audi dealer in Dublin. I don't know the actual specifics, just that my boss came in to work one day raging about it. I suspect the dealer was just looking for excuses to not do the fix. But just a cursory read around the web seems to imply that this is happening more and more and to be honest I think it would be unwise to assume that manufacturers wont make it an official policy at some point.
- yareally 10y ago
  Dublin Ireland or Dublin Ohio? I live Ohio and know there's an Audi dealer in our Dublin. I have an Audi and would like to avoid that dealer if possible.
  - tedunangst 10y ago
    I would guess there's more solicitors in Ireland.
  - beachstartup 10y ago
    he's probably referring to the dublin in the east bay area, ca. it looks like there's an audi right next door in livermore, ca which he was probably referring to.
  - DoubleGlazing 10y ago
    Dublin Ireland. We have an infestation of middle aged men who drive mid to high end Audis (always painted black) with a set of gold clubs permanently stored in the boot.
jlgaddis 10y ago
My assumption would be that Audi told them this. The dealer is normally more than happy to perform repairs under warranty, as this is easy, guaranteed money for them. It's basically the same reason they love getting exclusive deals with insurance companies.
- tadfisher 10y ago
  Sometimes perverse incentives are set up; for example, the manufacturer may offer a "bonus" payment if the number of warranty claims serviced by the dealer in a quarter is below a specified target. Sometimes, "book time" to fix a particular defect is lower than the actual time, and manufacturers pay out on book time. However you spin it, the dealer-manufacturer relationship ends up working in favor of the manufacturer, as they control the inventory and the bottom line of the dealer's balance sheet.
  - beachstartup 10y ago
    yes - also, some dealers refuse to perform warranty repairs with cars that have aftermarket parts... others are totally fine with it, and will even install aftermarket parts and perform warranty work afterwards. the whole system is a mess. yeesh.

sliverstorm 10y ago

Its also likely that there will come a time when this data will be used to help price your car if you sell it or trade it in. That, at least, is potentially defensible. How the car is treated & how/where it was driven do have a big impact on long term reliability. In fact, if you are a gentle driver who lives in a good location and operates the vehicle under optimal conditions, you could expect to get more for your vehicle- today, because the buyer cannot easily tell, they pay you somewhere in the middle. Insurers will demand this data in before giving you a quote. Same goes here, once it becomes commonplace, insurers will be able to reliability identify "golden goose" customers who, based on driving patterns, are exceptionally unlikely to get in an accident. They will fight eachother tooth and nail for these drivers. I think its inevitable that manufacturers are going to use all this data to stop you claiming under your warranty. "Oh dear you slammed your door too hard one day, I'm afraid that invalidates your warranty". Thankfully we have Magnuson-Moss, so while bad apples might give you the occasional runaround, the law is on your side.

takeda 10y ago
> Same goes here, once it becomes commonplace, insurers will be able to reliability identify "golden goose" customers who, based on driving patterns, are exceptionally unlikely to get in an accident. They will fight eachother tooth and nail for these drivers. I understand that this is what insurers are striving for, and same with good drivers, the problem with it is that personalizing prices to everyone essentially makes insurance useless, since you'll essentially end up paying how much damages would really cost if you had no insurance + extra premium, because insurance wants to make money The whole idea of insurance is that you have a pool of people and there is probability that percentage of it will have an accident, the remaining group subsidizes essentially creating a safety net. All of that is negated when insurance prices individually, since you'll always lose on it.
- bbcbasic 10y ago
  You'd need something akin to Minority Report to get to the point where your premium is what you'll claim. And that would be excellent. Peppercorn insurance for drivers who won't have an accident. Killers will effectively be banned from driving. Zero traffic deaths.

forgetsusername 10y ago

>My old boss had a fancy top of the line Audi with all the trimmings. I'd love to know how the dealer could justify saying a high-end Audi, a car (and company) with an established racing pedigree, was driven "too aggressively". Look at their commercials for crying out loud.

throwanem 10y ago
I imagine it was quite easy, given the typical automobile dealer's complete lack of shame.
outside1234 10y ago
Audi is part of Volkswagen. That should answer everything at this point.
superuser2 10y ago
The "tracking" community embraces the fact that racing puts incredible strain on the car. Half of the hobby is the money and time you pour into service and repairs after every track day. There are no illusions that this is something the warranty would or should cover.

superuser2 10y ago

>Insurers will demand this data in before giving you a quote. This isn't obvious. Sure, some irresponsible driving behavior is evident in braking, acceleration, speed, etc. data. I suspect the much larger pool of bad drivers is people who are braking and accelerating very gently because they are spaced out, drowsy, or on their phones.