5 ms·

> Maybe, but probably not. I don't think math alone get you all the way there. Hm, I'm not so sure. When I was studying anti-coagulants, I came across a wikipe

by atmosx 10y ago

> Maybe, but probably not. I don't think math alone get you all the way there. Hm, I'm not so sure. When I was studying anti-coagulants, I came across a wikipedia excerpt. Apparently until 1700 AD the most advanced information about blood circulation came from Egyptian texts written in 200 BC. This knowledge came from mummification techniques. Egyptians knew the difference between veins, arteries, amongst other things. So for nearly 2000 years no advancement has been made on the topic, because religion. Indeed, if I'm not mistaken the period is called "the dark ages" and "the middle ages" to signify the lack of any advancement in science - or at least that's how I've always perceived that period. Aristotle had described a sort of scientific method but we had to wait for the Royal Society and Newton to establish what the actual scientific method is. It would have taken only one step between the two in my mind, 100 years should/could suffice. I think parent comment has a valid point. Of course I reckon that all this is pure speculation.

Swizec 10y ago
The Arab world continued to have great mathematicians and doctors. Advances in science aplenty. But the current world is dominated by Christian societies, so we paint history through our eyes.
riffraff 10y ago
> Indeed, if I'm not mistaken the period is called "the dark ages" and "the middle ages" to signify the lack of any advancement in science - or at least that's how I've always perceived that period. and that is how most people perceive it, but it's a lie :) Basically, they are called the dark ages, because the people who came just after them (i.e. renaissance) wanted to show themselves as "better than the old guys". The middle ages in europe saw the adoption of spectacles, arabic numbers, mechanical clocks, universities, paper and a bunch of other stuff. The muslim word, arguably more religious, had it's golden age during this period too and vast advancements in a ton of scientific fields.
- acqq 10y ago
  Actually, in the field of medicine, in the Western world, really nothing good happened at the times between the Christians came to the power and until the Italian Renaissance, check any good history of medicine. And it was really only because of the dogmatic approach that Christians had. Also, for professional historians, "dark ages" don't mean something "bad" but is a term used to refer to some historical period of some observed area where there's significantly less information on which history can rely to. It's not judgemental, it reflects the facts. And yes, there were periods when the most cities or the infrastructure of some region broke completely. Here's one look at the fact that for almost 200 years there were no coins in England: http://www.numsoc.net/darkages.html http://www.numsoc.net/darkages.html And of course it's a local effect, the Eastern Roman Empire at the same time functioned as a real state and produced new money. And some periods can "go dark" for us not because of something occurring during some time but because something later destroyed most of the evidence.
  - foldr 10y ago
    There are a lot of myths about medieval medicine too. See e.g.: http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/04/debunking-a-myth/ http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/04/debunking-a-my... http://www.medievalists.net/2013/08/04/medieval-medical-experiments/ http://www.medievalists.net/2013/08/04/medieval-medical-expe...
    - acqq 10y ago
      Thanks. Let's take as an example somebody we know more about, Paracelsus who died in 1541: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracelsus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracelsus "Paracelsus grew up during a period of Renaissance humanism" "He is also a famous revolutionary for utilizing observations of nature, rather than referring to ancient texts, something of radical defiance during his time." Is that a myth? And still: "Much of his theoretical work does not withstand modern scientific thought, but his insights laid the foundation for a more dynamic approach in the medical sciences." Had the medicine been good before him, it would be even better afterwards, but we can actually evaluate the quality of his achievements and therefore we get the idea how it was before. We can even use much more recent example, Semmelweis, died 1865: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis "Despite various publications of results where hand washing reduced mortality to below 1%, Semmelweis' observations conflicted with the established scientific and medical opinions of the time and his ideas were rejected by the medical community. Some doctors were offended at the suggestion that they should wash their hands and Semmelweis could offer no acceptable scientific explanation for his findings. Semmelweis' practice earned widespread acceptance only years after his death, when Louis Pasteur confirmed the germ theory."
cel1ne 10y ago
> So for nearly 2000 years no advancement has been made on the topic, because religion. The sad thing about the dark ages is that we don't know what we don't know. How many "heretical" books about physiology or psychology have been destroyed? And what was in them?
- cel1ne 10y ago
  I honestly don't understand why this comment was down-voted. Would somebody enlighten me? :)
Millennium 10y ago
They're called the dark ages because the historical records from that time are pretty scant. Both their predecessors and their descendants seem to have shown more awareness of history as it was happening, and kept a much more thorough record, sometimes deliberately, sometimes not. But for that period, we're largely in the dark, hence the name.

by atmosx 10y ago

Swizec 10y ago

The Arab world continued to have great mathematicians and doctors. Advances in science aplenty. But the current world is dominated by Christian societies, so we paint history through our eyes.

riffraff 10y ago

> Indeed, if I'm not mistaken the period is called "the dark ages" and "the middle ages" to signify the lack of any advancement in science - or at least that's how I've always perceived that period. and that is how most people perceive it, but it's a lie :) Basically, they are called the dark ages, because the people who came just after them (i.e. renaissance) wanted to show themselves as "better than the old guys". The middle ages in europe saw the adoption of spectacles, arabic numbers, mechanical clocks, universities, paper and a bunch of other stuff. The muslim word, arguably more religious, had it's golden age during this period too and vast advancements in a ton of scientific fields.

acqq 10y ago
Actually, in the field of medicine, in the Western world, really nothing good happened at the times between the Christians came to the power and until the Italian Renaissance, check any good history of medicine. And it was really only because of the dogmatic approach that Christians had. Also, for professional historians, "dark ages" don't mean something "bad" but is a term used to refer to some historical period of some observed area where there's significantly less information on which history can rely to. It's not judgemental, it reflects the facts. And yes, there were periods when the most cities or the infrastructure of some region broke completely. Here's one look at the fact that for almost 200 years there were no coins in England: http://www.numsoc.net/darkages.html http://www.numsoc.net/darkages.html And of course it's a local effect, the Eastern Roman Empire at the same time functioned as a real state and produced new money. And some periods can "go dark" for us not because of something occurring during some time but because something later destroyed most of the evidence.
- foldr 10y ago
  There are a lot of myths about medieval medicine too. See e.g.: http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/04/debunking-a-myth/ http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/04/debunking-a-my... http://www.medievalists.net/2013/08/04/medieval-medical-experiments/ http://www.medievalists.net/2013/08/04/medieval-medical-expe...
  - acqq 10y ago
    Thanks. Let's take as an example somebody we know more about, Paracelsus who died in 1541: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracelsus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracelsus "Paracelsus grew up during a period of Renaissance humanism" "He is also a famous revolutionary for utilizing observations of nature, rather than referring to ancient texts, something of radical defiance during his time." Is that a myth? And still: "Much of his theoretical work does not withstand modern scientific thought, but his insights laid the foundation for a more dynamic approach in the medical sciences." Had the medicine been good before him, it would be even better afterwards, but we can actually evaluate the quality of his achievements and therefore we get the idea how it was before. We can even use much more recent example, Semmelweis, died 1865: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis "Despite various publications of results where hand washing reduced mortality to below 1%, Semmelweis' observations conflicted with the established scientific and medical opinions of the time and his ideas were rejected by the medical community. Some doctors were offended at the suggestion that they should wash their hands and Semmelweis could offer no acceptable scientific explanation for his findings. Semmelweis' practice earned widespread acceptance only years after his death, when Louis Pasteur confirmed the germ theory."

cel1ne 10y ago

> So for nearly 2000 years no advancement has been made on the topic, because religion. The sad thing about the dark ages is that we don't know what we don't know. How many "heretical" books about physiology or psychology have been destroyed? And what was in them?

cel1ne 10y ago
I honestly don't understand why this comment was down-voted. Would somebody enlighten me? :)

Millennium 10y ago

They're called the dark ages because the historical records from that time are pretty scant. Both their predecessors and their descendants seem to have shown more awareness of history as it was happening, and kept a much more thorough record, sometimes deliberately, sometimes not. But for that period, we're largely in the dark, hence the name.