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USMS Asset Forfeiture Bitcoin Sale
- advisedwang 10y agoI wonder whether they will get a better deal through a sale like this than simply selling them on an exchange (or exchanges). Do they sell on an exchange when they need to dispose of other assets that have exchanges for trading?
- charlesdm 10y agoOf course not. But it's vastly easier to liquidate. Someone will make an instant profit, upon acquisition of these coins.
- bemmu 10y agoIf you run some bitcoin-related company, winning the bid could be an easy way to get mentions in the media. It could actually make sense to bid a bit more than the value of the coins, I would expect the coverage to be worth at least several thousand dollars.
- charlesdm 10y agoHadn't considered that. Very interesting!
- numlocked 10y agoWeird. Why not sell them in much, much smaller increments? You stand a way better chance of getting full market value if you don't enforce the artificial liquidity constraint of "only buyers who want a zillion bitcoins right now". Or just legitimately sell them on an exchange. Is there a reason the gov't would be obligated to go about it inefficiently?
- sverige 10y agoThey are the U.S. Marshals. They are most likely acting on a federal court order that says words to the effect of, "Auction this stuff." They sell vehicles, boats, buildings, anything that can be seized by the government. Auctions are the only method I've ever seen them use, I think because that allows the public to bid and avoids conflicts of interest (e.g., an agent's brother-in-law gets first crack at whatever they're selling).
- Waterluvian 10y agoMakes sense. It seems simple too. They don't have to develop any special skills on a per case basis. Sell everything the same way.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- omgitstom 10y ago"The U.S. Marshals Service (USMS) offers property for sale to the public which has been forfeited under laws enforced or administered by the United States Department of Justice, its investigative agencies (Drug Enforcement Administration, Federal Bureau of Investigation, and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms), and certain other federal law enforcement agencies. " My guess here is that bitcoin is considered property and not currency, and there are laws around this. Edit: Looks like they are treating bitcoin as property -https://www.usmarshals.gov/foia/directives/asset_forfeiture.pdf https://www.usmarshals.gov/foia/directives/asset_forfeiture....
- ChuckMcM 10y agoI wonder if anyone has used this as evidence that Bitcoin should not be regulated under FinCen rules (as its property not currency). I guess it would depend in part how the Marshall's service treats foreign currency they seize.
- 10y ago
- vmarsy 10y ago> FOR SALE > 2,719.32669068 bitcoins > The required deposit to participate in this auction is $100,000.00 USD. As of today 2719 Bitcoin equals $1,597,793 (Source: google) This is a weird auction, putting Bitcoin risks aside, Bitcoin is a currency. Is there auctions such as "FOR SALE: 1,000,000€" ?
- joe5150 10y agoI'd guess the 100 grand is just to ensure they have only serious bids.
- maxander 10y agoThere was a story on HN just awhile ago, where it was ruled (albeit in Florida) that its not legally a currency: http://phys.org/news/2016-08-bitcoin-money-victory-backers.html http://phys.org/news/2016-08-bitcoin-money-victory-backers.h... .
- kondro 10y agoI don't think the US officially recognises Bitcoin as a currency yet.
- rspeer 10y ago"Yet"? Are you hoping for Bitcoin to be the next Liberty Dollar? I'm not generally a fan of Bitcoin, but I know many people who are, and I wouldn't want them to go to jail.
- kondro 10y agoWhether you're a fan or not, Bitcoin is clearly being used as currency. It would help if those adjacent to it would treat it as such so that less people are taken advantage of.
- rspeer 10y agoIt's extremely fortunate for Bitcoin that the government considers it a commodity, not a currency. The fact that creating Bitcoin is called "mining" instead of "minting" probably helped set that frame of reference. If Bitcoin were a currency, then min(t)ing Bitcoin would be illegal in the US. You can look at Liberty Dollars for an example of the federal government cracking down on private mints, even when they don't claim to be making US Dollars. And yeah it would be great if fewer people got taken advantage of or stolen from in the Bitcoin sphere, but I'm pretty sure that if you told Bitcoin developers they had a fiduciary duty to users, they would just quit or go into hiding. (I am not a lawyer and this armchair sure is comfy)
- rotoole 10y agoMaybe someone would pay a premium to own Ross Ulbricht's BitCoin.
- omarchowdhury 10y agoAll bitcoins are created equal.
- JabavuAdams 10y agoAnd all humans are created irrational.
- ErikAugust 10y agoDidn't they seize a lot more BTC from Ross? I heard something in the amount of 150,000 coins.
- mrb 10y agoYes, but they have already sold them (tens of thousands) in previous auctions. This auction is from another bunch of coins seized from other law breakers.
- kamkazemoose 10y ago> These bitcoins were forfeited in various federal criminal, civil and administrative cases, including: >United States v. Carl Mark Force IV, Northern District of California (Case No. 15-0319) >United States v. Sean Roberson, District of New Jersey (Case No. 14-565); >United States v. Ross William Ulbricht, Southern District of New York (Case No. 13-06919) >Department of Justice, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, Case No. 776075-14-0028 >United States v. 178.95842915 Bitcoins stored in MultiBit wallet XXXX4XDAd, Eastern District of Washington (Case No. 16-07009) >Department of Treasury, Internal Revenue Service, Case No. 2015 9400 500008 01 001 >United States v. Approximately $200,979.15 Seized from Tradehill, Inc., held in the name of Megan Thompson, et. al. Eastern District of California, Case No. 14-02950 >United States v. $309,305.24 in U.S. Currency, etc., District of Maryland, Case No. 15-03474 >Department of Homeland Security, United States Customs and Border Protection, Case Nos. 2015330700002501, 2015330700002701, 2014330700023701, and 2014330700027201 So some are from him along with a mix of several other cases.
- cbanek 10y agoUnited States vs Bitcoin wallet? I hope the bitcoin wins.
- DINKDINK 10y agoMy guess is that "United States vs Bitcoin wallet" could be an instance of civil forfeiture, where instead of going through the steps required to prosecute someone, US authorities are putting literally money in the defense position and effectively automatically taking it. Which yields some tragically comedic titles like: The United States Government vs $25,180 in United States Currency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States#/media/File:Civil_forfeiture_case_US_District_Court_Nebraska_2.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United...
- stevenwiles 10y agoI was just wondering to myself "How the hell does the government win judgements against sums of money?"
- koolba 10y ago> The USMS will not transfer any bitcoins until it has confirmed receipt of purchase funds from the buyer. I wonder if you can reverse the wire and keep the bitcoins. > The USMS will not transfer bitcoins to an obscene public address, a public address apparently in a country restricted by the Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC), a public address apparently associated with terrorism, other criminal activities, or otherwise hostile to the United States. How would a bitcoin address be located in a foreign country? Or even located anywhere? And wouldn't anyone participating in this create a brand new address with the private key in cold storage?
- superuser2 10y ago>I wonder if you can reverse the wire and keep the bitcoins. Once cleared, wires can't be reversed without the recipient's permission. Their liquid, irreversible nature is why people use them (and not, say, checks or ACH) for high value transactions.
- viraptor 10y ago> a public address apparently in a country restricted I think apparently is the key word here. For example if you're running a company in restricted country X and it's known/advertised that this address is associated with your company, it would match.
- sethhochberg 10y agoSeems to be the case. Actually some pretty clever wording.
- mikeash 10y agoDirectly scamming federal law enforcement seems unwise.
- desireco42 10y agoYeah, why not just sell on a market like any regular person would do.
- wmf 10y agoWhich market, the shady one or the really shady one? At what price? Do Bitcoin exchanges support all-or-none orders? What if the size of the order is a significant fraction of the order book depth? etc.
- bluedino 10y agoWhy doesn't the government use them to buy stuff from Microsoft or some other vendor they have that accepts BitCoin?
- desireco42 10y agoI didn't think this was so controversial...
- mikerichards 10y agoso the US government says Bitcoin is legit? good. Forfeiture is a scummy thing by the feds, but I'll take a 2017 vette with those bitcoins.
- grecy 10y agoI wonder if this makes legal precedence that the US GOV is giving it's stamp of approval that bitcoin is valid and legal. i.e. when they seize drugs they don't auction them off because they are illegal. When they seize fake iPhones I'm sure they don't auction them off because they are fake and illegal. Buy auctioning BitCoins it seems to me they're saying "It's a legal thing you are allowed to buy and sell".
- UweSchmidt 10y agoBitcoin is a legal thing you are allowed to buy and sell. The Bitcoiners' dream is to have it be recognized as currency; as a commodity it's just fine, or did you believe all that Bitcoin activity is happening illegally somehow?