5 ms·

But the party has no justification to exist other than someone wants to be paid for it. Close it down, if you can't force me to pay. Keep trying.

by ominous 10y ago

nostrebored 10y ago
Are you against businesses being able to set their prices? They're asking you to pay the market price. If you're not fine with it, doing some unilateral haggling isn't exactly how exchanges work, just don't use their product. Using Facebook is not a right. The fact of the matter is, most people waxing poetic here about ads infringing on their rights, will still use Facebook when their adblockers don't work. They are willing to pay, they just want to pay less. This is a very hard position to justify ethically.
- dragandj 10y ago
  The problem is also that the content they serve is displayed on the consumer's property (computer). The owner of the computer has the right to select what portion of the crap he's been served will be displayed. If Facebook (or any other company that relies on targeted ads as a business model) do not like that, they have the right to not send their content to the consumer's property. But, once they send it, they do not have right to force me to look at it. (Not a legal opinion, I'm just giving my perspective)
- ominous 10y ago
  I am against business trying to make me agree the price is fair. And the price of having ads displayed on my computer is too high. Ads are like a donation box, not like a price tag. Am I being forced to donate?
  - fragola 10y ago
    >Ads are a donation box, not a price tag Well, you're certainly entitled to your own opinion. But realistically, we all consume content that is ad-supported that we might be paying for otherwise. The fact that so many ad-or-pay services exist is proof of this (Youtube with ads, Hulu with ads, etc.) The are both business models. If you don't like the service at the price, don't buy it. Honestly, no one is forcing you and tons of people get on perfectly fine without Facebook (some people would even say they are better off without it).
    - elmigranto 10y ago
      You say "buy" but I do not see how this applies to Facebook. I do not buy anything, there is no money changing hands, no product offered or received.
  - eva1984 10y ago
    But ads isn't real donation, no actual money is handled from customer directly to the website. Instead, advertiser pays for it.
- lastyearman 10y ago
  But advertising is already regulated, just like any other market. There is no ethics involved. Perhaps one day we (society) come to the conclusion that advertising, as a whole, is doing more harm than good and we decide to ban it entirely. Or we decide set a limit on how much advertising is allowed. Right now adblockers are not against the law (afaik) so I don't see any problem using them. After all, they're a product of the somewhat free market that facebook is part of and they accepted the market price (which is that some people choose to block ads).
  - nostrebored 10y ago
    That is akin to saying that shops have accepted the market price of shoplifting, and that hiring a security guard or secret shoppers is trying to interfere with it.
    - lastyearman 10y ago
      Shops have to accept the fact that shoplifting is going to cost them money. I'm not arguing that Facebook isn't allowed to try to stop adblocking. Only question is what means they're allowed to take. Just like security guard isn't allowed to shoot shoplifters on sight.

But the party has no justification to exist other than someone wants to be paid for it. Close it down, if you can't force me to pay. Keep trying.

by ominous 10y ago

But the party has no justification to exist other than someone wants to be paid for it. Close it down, if you can't force me to pay. Keep trying.

nostrebored 10y ago

Are you against businesses being able to set their prices? They're asking you to pay the market price. If you're not fine with it, doing some unilateral haggling isn't exactly how exchanges work, just don't use their product. Using Facebook is not a right. The fact of the matter is, most people waxing poetic here about ads infringing on their rights, will still use Facebook when their adblockers don't work. They are willing to pay, they just want to pay less. This is a very hard position to justify ethically.

dragandj 10y ago
The problem is also that the content they serve is displayed on the consumer's property (computer). The owner of the computer has the right to select what portion of the crap he's been served will be displayed. If Facebook (or any other company that relies on targeted ads as a business model) do not like that, they have the right to not send their content to the consumer's property. But, once they send it, they do not have right to force me to look at it. (Not a legal opinion, I'm just giving my perspective)
ominous 10y ago
I am against business trying to make me agree the price is fair. And the price of having ads displayed on my computer is too high. Ads are like a donation box, not like a price tag. Am I being forced to donate?
- fragola 10y ago
  >Ads are a donation box, not a price tag Well, you're certainly entitled to your own opinion. But realistically, we all consume content that is ad-supported that we might be paying for otherwise. The fact that so many ad-or-pay services exist is proof of this (Youtube with ads, Hulu with ads, etc.) The are both business models. If you don't like the service at the price, don't buy it. Honestly, no one is forcing you and tons of people get on perfectly fine without Facebook (some people would even say they are better off without it).
  - elmigranto 10y ago
    You say "buy" but I do not see how this applies to Facebook. I do not buy anything, there is no money changing hands, no product offered or received.
- eva1984 10y ago
  But ads isn't real donation, no actual money is handled from customer directly to the website. Instead, advertiser pays for it.
lastyearman 10y ago
But advertising is already regulated, just like any other market. There is no ethics involved. Perhaps one day we (society) come to the conclusion that advertising, as a whole, is doing more harm than good and we decide to ban it entirely. Or we decide set a limit on how much advertising is allowed. Right now adblockers are not against the law (afaik) so I don't see any problem using them. After all, they're a product of the somewhat free market that facebook is part of and they accepted the market price (which is that some people choose to block ads).
- nostrebored 10y ago
  That is akin to saying that shops have accepted the market price of shoplifting, and that hiring a security guard or secret shoppers is trying to interfere with it.
  - lastyearman 10y ago
    Shops have to accept the fact that shoplifting is going to cost them money. I'm not arguing that Facebook isn't allowed to try to stop adblocking. Only question is what means they're allowed to take. Just like security guard isn't allowed to shoot shoplifters on sight.