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uBlock can already do this (I use it for hiding the Twitter "while you were away" nonsense), although I suspect that the next step is Facebook scrambling DOM cl

by Leynos 10y ago

uBlock can already do this (I use it for hiding the Twitter "while you were away" nonsense), although I suspect that the next step is Facebook scrambling DOM classes and ids with no discernable pattern.

ruste 10y ago
Then we can possibly block them by matching structural elements?
- ultramancool 10y ago
  Yeah, or visual, anything with this CSS attributes applied (so even if they randomize names it can still be blocked) to it or something. Maybe even the element at this rendered location, which would pretty much guaranteed kill them unless they wanted to change ad locations randomly. In any case this is a pretty trivial problem.
pseudointellect 10y ago
"while you were away" nonsense? A feature that shows you popular tweets from only people you follow. How is that nonsense?
- tomjen3 10y ago
  Because thats my twitter feed. Really I don't follow more people than i can keep up with, so I want to read _all_ their tweets. Which is apparently a usage pattern nobody at twitter gets.
- douche 10y ago
  There are people that would like Twitter to just be a straight-up, chronological feed of tweets from people that you follow. I'd love it if the infinite scrolling shit went away and I could look at tweets by last hour, last 12 hours, last 24 hours, etc, and then paginate by day after that.
- tdkl 10y ago
  He doesn't want to see it and there's no option to hide it. FB is also full of attention catching crap like that, it's all engineered.
  - nostrebored 10y ago
    You act like engineering things that most people like is a bad thing. You're not going to please everyone. Even people who will like it a month down the line will hate it when you first roll out the change. And we should you have to support (|feature|!) different websites?
    - tdkl 10y ago
      > You act like engineering things that most people like is a bad thing. Like or is being exploited based on genetical brain responses to like because of the result of the "quest for new information" ? This behaviour is psychologically engineered to trigger more dopamine fueled hits and with it fueling site engagement.
      - nostrebored 10y ago
        Everything you like is based on brain responses. Fueling engagement with your product is only necessarily harmful if your product is harmful. I hope you don't like music, movies, amusement park rides, love, etc., because I have some bad news for you.
- swasheck 10y ago
  I'm not sure why you're being downvoted. This seems like a legitimate question.
  - pseudointellect 10y ago
    I'm being down-voted because I'm arguing for a feature that all-knowing "hackers" on here feel is hampering their user experience. Because they know what's best for every product they use. And everyone uses that product in the exact way they do so the product should be catered to only them.
FT_intern 10y ago
is that why Google scrambles everything?
- cocotino 10y ago
  No, that's for bandwidth savings I reckon.
gorhill 10y ago
> scrambling DOM classes and ids with no discernable pattern That's why I have been beefing up the DOM filtering code in the latest versions -- there are already sites doing this. There is a lot of untapped potential with the new operators, I am waiting for opportunities to put them to test, and fine-tune them if needed.
- aantix 10y ago
  Just realized that you're the author of uBlock.. If you can't filter on classes or id's, what else? Dom element ordering? Image size properties? Structure of ad text?
- uremog 10y ago
  Thank you for your service.
- aleem 10y ago
  Thanks for your wonderful work. > That's why I have been beefing up the DOM filtering code Isn't it all done through CSS selectors? Could you share more? How about leveraging other heuristics such as HTTP headers (response cookies for starters) or timing information?
- hokkos 10y ago
  Something like react-armor can make cryptographically unpredictable class name, tree structure and tag name obfuscation. But it won't be enough if the ad itself is not written with the same toolkit. https://github.com/elierotenberg/react-armor https://github.com/elierotenberg/react-armor https://youtu.be/n63XXHY4A7I https://youtu.be/n63XXHY4A7I
amyjess 10y ago
The next step then is for uBlock to use a machine learning algorithm to analyze the rendered page and hide anything that resembles an ad.
- Bartweiss 10y ago
  I wouldn't hate this, even if it's imperfect - the most common false positives would be brand-pushing content I don't want even if it's not actually paid advertising.
- MarkMc 10y ago
  You wouldn't need machine learning, just allow the image to be seen by a hundred users and see how many mark it as an ad.
  - amyjess 10y ago
    Well, that's how you build a training set. But you still have to identify features and use an algorithm that basically goes "users identify images with features A, B, and C as ads, and they identify images with features X, Y, and Z as not ads, so put positive weights on A, B, and C and negative weights on X, Y, and Z, and block anything with a negative enough score".

by Leynos 10y ago

ruste 10y ago

Then we can possibly block them by matching structural elements?

ultramancool 10y ago
Yeah, or visual, anything with this CSS attributes applied (so even if they randomize names it can still be blocked) to it or something. Maybe even the element at this rendered location, which would pretty much guaranteed kill them unless they wanted to change ad locations randomly. In any case this is a pretty trivial problem.

pseudointellect 10y ago

"while you were away" nonsense? A feature that shows you popular tweets from only people you follow. How is that nonsense?

tomjen3 10y ago
Because thats my twitter feed. Really I don't follow more people than i can keep up with, so I want to read _all_ their tweets. Which is apparently a usage pattern nobody at twitter gets.
douche 10y ago
There are people that would like Twitter to just be a straight-up, chronological feed of tweets from people that you follow. I'd love it if the infinite scrolling shit went away and I could look at tweets by last hour, last 12 hours, last 24 hours, etc, and then paginate by day after that.
tdkl 10y ago
He doesn't want to see it and there's no option to hide it. FB is also full of attention catching crap like that, it's all engineered.
- nostrebored 10y ago
  You act like engineering things that most people like is a bad thing. You're not going to please everyone. Even people who will like it a month down the line will hate it when you first roll out the change. And we should you have to support (|feature|!) different websites?
  - tdkl 10y ago
    > You act like engineering things that most people like is a bad thing. Like or is being exploited based on genetical brain responses to like because of the result of the "quest for new information" ? This behaviour is psychologically engineered to trigger more dopamine fueled hits and with it fueling site engagement.
    - nostrebored 10y ago
      Everything you like is based on brain responses. Fueling engagement with your product is only necessarily harmful if your product is harmful. I hope you don't like music, movies, amusement park rides, love, etc., because I have some bad news for you.
swasheck 10y ago
I'm not sure why you're being downvoted. This seems like a legitimate question.
- pseudointellect 10y ago
  I'm being down-voted because I'm arguing for a feature that all-knowing "hackers" on here feel is hampering their user experience. Because they know what's best for every product they use. And everyone uses that product in the exact way they do so the product should be catered to only them.

FT_intern 10y ago

is that why Google scrambles everything?

cocotino 10y ago
No, that's for bandwidth savings I reckon.

gorhill 10y ago

> scrambling DOM classes and ids with no discernable pattern That's why I have been beefing up the DOM filtering code in the latest versions -- there are already sites doing this. There is a lot of untapped potential with the new operators, I am waiting for opportunities to put them to test, and fine-tune them if needed.

aantix 10y ago
Just realized that you're the author of uBlock.. If you can't filter on classes or id's, what else? Dom element ordering? Image size properties? Structure of ad text?
uremog 10y ago
Thank you for your service.
aleem 10y ago
Thanks for your wonderful work. > That's why I have been beefing up the DOM filtering code Isn't it all done through CSS selectors? Could you share more? How about leveraging other heuristics such as HTTP headers (response cookies for starters) or timing information?
hokkos 10y ago
Something like react-armor can make cryptographically unpredictable class name, tree structure and tag name obfuscation. But it won't be enough if the ad itself is not written with the same toolkit. https://github.com/elierotenberg/react-armor https://github.com/elierotenberg/react-armor https://youtu.be/n63XXHY4A7I https://youtu.be/n63XXHY4A7I

amyjess 10y ago

The next step then is for uBlock to use a machine learning algorithm to analyze the rendered page and hide anything that resembles an ad.

Bartweiss 10y ago
I wouldn't hate this, even if it's imperfect - the most common false positives would be brand-pushing content I don't want even if it's not actually paid advertising.
MarkMc 10y ago
You wouldn't need machine learning, just allow the image to be seen by a hundred users and see how many mark it as an ad.
- amyjess 10y ago
  Well, that's how you build a training set. But you still have to identify features and use an algorithm that basically goes "users identify images with features A, B, and C as ads, and they identify images with features X, Y, and Z as not ads, so put positive weights on A, B, and C and negative weights on X, Y, and Z, and block anything with a negative enough score".