11 ms·

To be fair, no teacher I have ever known has stopped working at 3:20 PM. Grading and planning often go far into the evening.

ryandrake 10y ago
Additionally, no teacher I have ever known has had the summer off. Summer is when they do catch-up work, lesson planning, etc., the technical debt payback of the teaching world. (source: three parents/step-parents were school teachers)
- LanceH 10y ago
  To be fair, no teacher I've ever known as received only 10 day vacation and 10 holidays. They have over 20 days of holidays built in during the school year and a legitimate two months off between years.
  - fencepost 10y ago
    No, they have 2 months between school years in which they are not at the front of a classroom. For a lot of teachers that's time used for continuing education, for prep for the upcoming school year, etc. - or for a summer job.
    - sokoloff 10y ago
      Both my parents were teachers. While there was some summer work, in no way was it nearly as intense as the school year. The mere fact that many do take summer jobs is proof of that, IMO.
      - Xylakant 10y ago
        > The mere fact that many do take summer jobs is proof of that, IMO. Or it's a proof that they need the money.
        nilkn 10y ago
        It's only proof that they desire more money or can find a use for more money. "Need" is an overloaded term. I know developers with six figure salaries who feel like they "need" more money and occasionally do contract work on the side as a result.
        Xylakant 10y ago
        By that argument nobody needs any money. Why pay rent when you can have https://primitivetechnology.wordpress.com/ https://primitivetechnology.wordpress.com/. Why pay for groceries when https://primitivetechnology.wordpress.com/2016/05/20/sweet-potato-patch/ https://primitivetechnology.wordpress.com/2016/05/20/sweet-p... feeds you just as well? We just "desire it"
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
        nommm-nommm 10y ago
        If I had two months off a year I'd take a summer job at Starbucks or whatever as well yet I don't need the money by any means whatsoever even if I took a prorated pay cut. Hell, I don't need to work at all because my spouse's income is more than enough to live off of very comfortably, but I do. The amount of time I work isn't an indication of the amount of money I need.
        Xylakant 10y ago
        The argument in the parent posts is that teachers actually don't have two month off. They just have two month where they don't have to do client (that is pupil) - facing work to do. Teachers actually need to cram a lot in that time. All the preparation for next year, all self-education they need to do to stay up-to-date, select reading and learning materials. Planning the curriculum etc. The equivalent to all that work that freelancers factor into their daily rate and all the work that employees often do on the job ("I'll need to read the documentation so I know how to properly do that", "I'll google it", ...). The fact that they still take on summer jobs on top of that can serve as an indicator that they actually don't have too much to do in that time or it can serve as an indicator that they need the money more than their time off.
    - nilkn 10y ago
      (I'm the one who made the original reply about teachers.) My comment was based on observations of my SO, who is a high school biology teacher. She legitimately does not have to work at all for the great majority of the summer if she doesn't want to. I understand this may vary a lot by school district and location, and of course even if you don't have to work over the summer there are still benefits to doing so.
- majewsky 10y ago
  Or if you're in Germany, many teachers are running on temporary contracts that always last for the school year, so they will be receiving unemployment benefits during the summer break, and (hopefully!) get a new contract for the next school year. It's a great way to shuffle cost from one government budget (education) to another one (unemployment benefits), and also a convenient way to get rid of annoying parts of the staff.
  - knd775 10y ago
    Teachers in my mother's district in Virginia also work on a contractual basis. However, they renew their contracts at the end of the school year even though they aren't actually working and getting paid over the summer. As a result, they are technically employed and ineligible for unemployment.
- guelo 10y ago
  Alternatively, I have 3 teacher friends coming back from month long vacations right now.
- coryrc 10y ago
  In all careers, some people are martyrs unnecessarily. Yes, there's a bit of prep work needed right before the next school year depending on what classes they have for the following year, but except that last week, the time's free if they want it to be.
ma2rten 10y ago
Actually according to http://transparentcalifornia.com/ http://transparentcalifornia.com/ my daughter's elementary school teacher makes around 130k in a public school.
- edwhitesell 10y ago
  There are lots of places where teachers easily make 80k or more. Most states also drive additional salary requirements based on the level of education the teacher has. Also, the number of years teaching (though sometimes tied to the number of years in the specific school system/district) include increases too. Source: a friend who taught elementary school in the Boston area.
  - joezydeco 10y ago
    There are also teacher unions involved.
  - kbenson 10y ago
    I once had it explained by a teacher in highschool (in CA), that the compensation was based on both years worked and additional education they had completed. IIRC, teaching for 20+ years and taking all the education could net you $65k-$85k ~ 20 years ago. That was the upper range though.
- guelo 10y ago
  That probably includes medical and pension.
logfromblammo 10y ago
Many are faculty sponsors of extracurricular activities. Band directors, for instance, have to stay late for marching/pep band practices and for football/basketball games. Science and math teachers stay late for the academic competition teams. Team sports have coaches. Where I went to school, teachers with less than five years of tenure essentially had to sponsor at least one extracurricular activity, just to earn enough extra pay to live on. And then they still have to do grading and planning when the kids aren't there. That can be done away from the school building, but it still counts as work.
nommm-nommm 10y ago
I had a teacher in high school once explain to us a side lesson on time management, she says she used moments of "downtime" in the school day to do grading and lesson planning so she almost never brought home work as a result. I took it to heart. It worked very, very well for me in college. I'd always have homework with me ready to go and when I was waiting for a class to start, or any other short time with nothing to do, I'd do homework. I'd only get a bit done at a time but it really added up and reduced my take home workload considerably.
- mizzao 10y ago
  I think the effectiveness of this strategy also depends on how well you can context switch. For some it is a lot easier than others.
  - nommm-nommm 10y ago
    I was bad at context switching too but if you really put your mind to it and put in the effort it can be learned. It does get easier with time. For people that it doesn't come naturally to (like me) it takes a lot of willpower to work like this but the payoff is huge.
- warfangle 10y ago
  I had a total of 3 hours a day on a bus to/from high school. I wish I could have done homework during that time! But you know how spine-jarring school busses are. Maybe if I'd been able to complete it on a laptop instead of worksheets. But nah, with how I was treated by folks on my bus, my laptop would've been tossed out the window the second day.
  - kbenson 10y ago
    I've often wondered about those that commuted long ways for school. Was it because the school was better, or because there was no closer school? If it was just a better school, do you think it was more beneficial overall to have that time used on the bus when it could have been put to work on something else, or was the local school unsafe? I was lucky enough to always live very close to my schools, so hours spent commuting to school is entirely alien to me, and barring safety issues, I'm not sure a directed extracurricular learning program wouldn't be more beneficial (and if the student or parents care enough to commute, I imagine they could work out some program from available sources). Then again, I've never been put in a situation that young where it relied that much on my own motivation.
discern265 10y ago
Gym teachers don't need to grade papers. Planning probably doesn't take too long for them either.

ryandrake 10y ago

Additionally, no teacher I have ever known has had the summer off. Summer is when they do catch-up work, lesson planning, etc., the technical debt payback of the teaching world. (source: three parents/step-parents were school teachers)

LanceH 10y ago
To be fair, no teacher I've ever known as received only 10 day vacation and 10 holidays. They have over 20 days of holidays built in during the school year and a legitimate two months off between years.
- fencepost 10y ago
  No, they have 2 months between school years in which they are not at the front of a classroom. For a lot of teachers that's time used for continuing education, for prep for the upcoming school year, etc. - or for a summer job.
  - sokoloff 10y ago
    Both my parents were teachers. While there was some summer work, in no way was it nearly as intense as the school year. The mere fact that many do take summer jobs is proof of that, IMO.
    - Xylakant 10y ago
      > The mere fact that many do take summer jobs is proof of that, IMO. Or it's a proof that they need the money.
      - nilkn 10y ago
        It's only proof that they desire more money or can find a use for more money. "Need" is an overloaded term. I know developers with six figure salaries who feel like they "need" more money and occasionally do contract work on the side as a result.
        Xylakant 10y ago
        By that argument nobody needs any money. Why pay rent when you can have https://primitivetechnology.wordpress.com/ https://primitivetechnology.wordpress.com/. Why pay for groceries when https://primitivetechnology.wordpress.com/2016/05/20/sweet-potato-patch/ https://primitivetechnology.wordpress.com/2016/05/20/sweet-p... feeds you just as well? We just "desire it"
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      - nommm-nommm 10y ago
        If I had two months off a year I'd take a summer job at Starbucks or whatever as well yet I don't need the money by any means whatsoever even if I took a prorated pay cut. Hell, I don't need to work at all because my spouse's income is more than enough to live off of very comfortably, but I do. The amount of time I work isn't an indication of the amount of money I need.
        Xylakant 10y ago
        The argument in the parent posts is that teachers actually don't have two month off. They just have two month where they don't have to do client (that is pupil) - facing work to do. Teachers actually need to cram a lot in that time. All the preparation for next year, all self-education they need to do to stay up-to-date, select reading and learning materials. Planning the curriculum etc. The equivalent to all that work that freelancers factor into their daily rate and all the work that employees often do on the job ("I'll need to read the documentation so I know how to properly do that", "I'll google it", ...). The fact that they still take on summer jobs on top of that can serve as an indicator that they actually don't have too much to do in that time or it can serve as an indicator that they need the money more than their time off.
  - nilkn 10y ago
    (I'm the one who made the original reply about teachers.) My comment was based on observations of my SO, who is a high school biology teacher. She legitimately does not have to work at all for the great majority of the summer if she doesn't want to. I understand this may vary a lot by school district and location, and of course even if you don't have to work over the summer there are still benefits to doing so.
majewsky 10y ago
Or if you're in Germany, many teachers are running on temporary contracts that always last for the school year, so they will be receiving unemployment benefits during the summer break, and (hopefully!) get a new contract for the next school year. It's a great way to shuffle cost from one government budget (education) to another one (unemployment benefits), and also a convenient way to get rid of annoying parts of the staff.
- knd775 10y ago
  Teachers in my mother's district in Virginia also work on a contractual basis. However, they renew their contracts at the end of the school year even though they aren't actually working and getting paid over the summer. As a result, they are technically employed and ineligible for unemployment.
guelo 10y ago
Alternatively, I have 3 teacher friends coming back from month long vacations right now.
coryrc 10y ago
In all careers, some people are martyrs unnecessarily. Yes, there's a bit of prep work needed right before the next school year depending on what classes they have for the following year, but except that last week, the time's free if they want it to be.

ma2rten 10y ago

Actually according to http://transparentcalifornia.com/ http://transparentcalifornia.com/ my daughter's elementary school teacher makes around 130k in a public school.

edwhitesell 10y ago
There are lots of places where teachers easily make 80k or more. Most states also drive additional salary requirements based on the level of education the teacher has. Also, the number of years teaching (though sometimes tied to the number of years in the specific school system/district) include increases too. Source: a friend who taught elementary school in the Boston area.
- joezydeco 10y ago
  There are also teacher unions involved.
- kbenson 10y ago
  I once had it explained by a teacher in highschool (in CA), that the compensation was based on both years worked and additional education they had completed. IIRC, teaching for 20+ years and taking all the education could net you $65k-$85k ~ 20 years ago. That was the upper range though.
guelo 10y ago
That probably includes medical and pension.

logfromblammo 10y ago

Many are faculty sponsors of extracurricular activities. Band directors, for instance, have to stay late for marching/pep band practices and for football/basketball games. Science and math teachers stay late for the academic competition teams. Team sports have coaches. Where I went to school, teachers with less than five years of tenure essentially had to sponsor at least one extracurricular activity, just to earn enough extra pay to live on. And then they still have to do grading and planning when the kids aren't there. That can be done away from the school building, but it still counts as work.

nommm-nommm 10y ago

I had a teacher in high school once explain to us a side lesson on time management, she says she used moments of "downtime" in the school day to do grading and lesson planning so she almost never brought home work as a result. I took it to heart. It worked very, very well for me in college. I'd always have homework with me ready to go and when I was waiting for a class to start, or any other short time with nothing to do, I'd do homework. I'd only get a bit done at a time but it really added up and reduced my take home workload considerably.

mizzao 10y ago
I think the effectiveness of this strategy also depends on how well you can context switch. For some it is a lot easier than others.
- nommm-nommm 10y ago
  I was bad at context switching too but if you really put your mind to it and put in the effort it can be learned. It does get easier with time. For people that it doesn't come naturally to (like me) it takes a lot of willpower to work like this but the payoff is huge.
warfangle 10y ago
I had a total of 3 hours a day on a bus to/from high school. I wish I could have done homework during that time! But you know how spine-jarring school busses are. Maybe if I'd been able to complete it on a laptop instead of worksheets. But nah, with how I was treated by folks on my bus, my laptop would've been tossed out the window the second day.
- kbenson 10y ago
  I've often wondered about those that commuted long ways for school. Was it because the school was better, or because there was no closer school? If it was just a better school, do you think it was more beneficial overall to have that time used on the bus when it could have been put to work on something else, or was the local school unsafe? I was lucky enough to always live very close to my schools, so hours spent commuting to school is entirely alien to me, and barring safety issues, I'm not sure a directed extracurricular learning program wouldn't be more beneficial (and if the student or parents care enough to commute, I imagine they could work out some program from available sources). Then again, I've never been put in a situation that young where it relied that much on my own motivation.

discern265 10y ago

Gym teachers don't need to grade papers. Planning probably doesn't take too long for them either.