7 ms·

My main machine is a 10 year old IBM thinkpad, and it's still doing fine. Likewise for my 8 year old 'phone. Tech enthusiasts are the ones who can see through

My main machine is a 10 year old IBM thinkpad, and it's still doing fine. Likewise for my 8 year old 'phone. Tech enthusiasts are the ones who can see through the marketing and upgrade-treadmill BS; the "average person" can end up buying a new machine when they fill up their hard drive.

vmarsy 10y ago
Impressive. likewise my five years old Thinkpad still runs like new (with Windows 10 startup improvement over 7 it felt even faster, but even faster is Ubuntu. it runs incredibly fast). For tech enthusiast who enjoy smartphones unfortunately a 8 year old phone won't cut it. I have 4 year old Nokia Lumia that still runs fine and with an average 1.5 days of battery life (it used to live 2 days, it's aging). It works well for me because I care about basic apps, GPS, internet browser, and email. But for more apps heavy users most apps won't work if the phone isn't on the latest OS version, and most old phones can't upgrade to the latest OS version. For instance if Facebook stops maintaining messenger on windows phone 8.1, I'd loose my most used app. Fortunately the market share for 8.1 in emerging markets is still important enough for fb to keep a quality app.
- tbihl 10y ago
  I had probably about the same Thinkpad, and I was amazed at how much faster Windows 8.1 and 10 were. Granted, I was also making a huge upgrade because some tech-illiterate person bought us 32-bit Windows licenses and 4GB RAM (2.9 usable.) I've much more often been frustrated by my phones. My last phone was at the point where I'd expect ~1 second delay for any interaction, whether that was opening an app or scrolling in a webpage. I think as the current one ages I'm going to start eliminating apps and wiping the phone more frequently than I do now, because I'd rather have all that money going toward my desktop and laptops.
  - colejohnson66 10y ago
    > Granted, I was also making a huge upgrade because some tech-illiterate person bought us 32-bit Windows licenses and 4GB RAM (2.9 usable.) A bit off topic topic, but is there any reason 32-bit Windows is still a thing? Every Intel processor I've seen since Atom failed is 64-bit.
    - Sanddancer 10y ago
      Devices like lower end tablets often have 2 gigs of ram and 32 gigs of flash, which would be problematic because a 64 bit version of Windows uses 3-4 gigabytes more disk space, which would be further amplified by needing that much more space for the recovery partition. These devices are useful, if limited purpose, so putting a 64 bit OS on it doesn't make a lot of sense. Here's an Intel blog post from last year talking about it: https://blogs.intel.com/evangelists/2015/07/22/why-cheap-systems-run-32-bit-uefi-on-x64-systems/ https://blogs.intel.com/evangelists/2015/07/22/why-cheap-sys...
      - hx87 10y ago
        Buying licenses and having 4GB of memory (and being disappointed about it) implies a desktop PC, and even a $80 refurb on eBay has at least an 80 GB hard drive.
      - colejohnson66 10y ago
        So because tablet makers don't want to spend a few extra dollars on a dedicated flash chip for recovery, 32 bit is still a thing?
    - Dylan16807 10y ago
      There wasn't much technical reason for 32-bit windows to be limited to 4GB in the first place, so I wouldn't try too hard to make sense of it all.
      - colejohnson66 10y ago
        I thought Windows 32 bit supports PAE?
        Dylan16807 10y ago
        They do, and they use it to support the NX bit, but they artificially restrict memory to 4GB on everything except the most expensive server SKUs.
- chriswarbo 10y ago
  > even faster is Ubuntu. it runs incredibly fast Heh, I use Linux (NixOS) with XMonad, st and Emacs, so it's always pretty responsive. Not used Windows in over a decade, so I can't comment on its speed. > But for more apps heavy users most apps won't work if the phone isn't on the latest OS version, and most old phones can't upgrade to the latest OS version. My phone runs Debian, so I haven't had any problems keeping up to date :)
  - ashitlerferad 10y ago
    Which phone can run plain Debian??
    - chriswarbo 10y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner
      - ashitlerferad 10y ago
        Debian doesn't have a Linux kernel package for that. You can run Debian on almost any phone by using a fork of Linux for that phone.
  - kagamine 10y ago
    Which model phone is that? I would love to have a linux phone or cheap tablet I could lend to my children that is not Android.
    - chriswarbo 10y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner
Yetanfou 10y ago
Same here, typing this on a Thinkpad T42p 'maxed out' with 2 GB. OK, it does contain an SSD (connected using a PATA-SATA converter which just fits between the drive and the connector, no external modification necessary) so it has seen some updates since being hatched but the thing is about 12 years old and still going strong. Not that I'd mind a bit more memory or CPU every now and then, mostly when confronted with 'modern' web pages... fortunately NoScript comes to the rescue there. Running Debian/Xmonad on the thing, works fine. I use a 5 yo phone (Motorola Defy+). It runs Android 4.4.4, thus far I've not seen a valid reason for wanting something newer. It still runs for about 4 days on a single charge, using the original battery. Things start looking bad for the tech industry when people start showing off with 'old' stuff instead of brand-spanking new.
- technomancy 10y ago
  > It runs Android 4.4.4, thus far I've not seen a valid reason for wanting something newer. I have an Android 4.4 phone, and while it has worked acceptably for me right now as I am self-employed, if I were working for a company that required me to have access to sensitive customer data, having a phone that still received security updates would be a hard requirement.
  - Yetanfou 10y ago
    Well, yes, security updates can be important. However, since I run a home-built Android distribution on the thing I can keep it up to date with the most egregious bugs (SurfaceFlinger bug etc.). This leads to the odd situation where my oldish phone is more secure than my wife's much newer Xperia C3 running a stock 4.4.4 distribution. ..which reminds me I have some more work to do, given the recent publication of https://source.android.com/security/bulletin/2016-07-01.html https://source.android.com/security/bulletin/2016-07-01.html
    - softawre 10y ago
      Home-built as in you merge in bug fixes yourself? I understand that we talk about this sort of thing quite a bit, but I can't imagine actually doing it myself. My phone is just supposed to work for me so I can get my real work done and have time to enjoy outside of it. I'm not supposed to work for it. I'd guess you have to really enjoy working on that sort of thing, but then again you called it "work to do", so I'm not sure.

vmarsy 10y ago

Impressive. likewise my five years old Thinkpad still runs like new (with Windows 10 startup improvement over 7 it felt even faster, but even faster is Ubuntu. it runs incredibly fast). For tech enthusiast who enjoy smartphones unfortunately a 8 year old phone won't cut it. I have 4 year old Nokia Lumia that still runs fine and with an average 1.5 days of battery life (it used to live 2 days, it's aging). It works well for me because I care about basic apps, GPS, internet browser, and email. But for more apps heavy users most apps won't work if the phone isn't on the latest OS version, and most old phones can't upgrade to the latest OS version. For instance if Facebook stops maintaining messenger on windows phone 8.1, I'd loose my most used app. Fortunately the market share for 8.1 in emerging markets is still important enough for fb to keep a quality app.

tbihl 10y ago
I had probably about the same Thinkpad, and I was amazed at how much faster Windows 8.1 and 10 were. Granted, I was also making a huge upgrade because some tech-illiterate person bought us 32-bit Windows licenses and 4GB RAM (2.9 usable.) I've much more often been frustrated by my phones. My last phone was at the point where I'd expect ~1 second delay for any interaction, whether that was opening an app or scrolling in a webpage. I think as the current one ages I'm going to start eliminating apps and wiping the phone more frequently than I do now, because I'd rather have all that money going toward my desktop and laptops.
- colejohnson66 10y ago
  > Granted, I was also making a huge upgrade because some tech-illiterate person bought us 32-bit Windows licenses and 4GB RAM (2.9 usable.) A bit off topic topic, but is there any reason 32-bit Windows is still a thing? Every Intel processor I've seen since Atom failed is 64-bit.
  - Sanddancer 10y ago
    Devices like lower end tablets often have 2 gigs of ram and 32 gigs of flash, which would be problematic because a 64 bit version of Windows uses 3-4 gigabytes more disk space, which would be further amplified by needing that much more space for the recovery partition. These devices are useful, if limited purpose, so putting a 64 bit OS on it doesn't make a lot of sense. Here's an Intel blog post from last year talking about it: https://blogs.intel.com/evangelists/2015/07/22/why-cheap-systems-run-32-bit-uefi-on-x64-systems/ https://blogs.intel.com/evangelists/2015/07/22/why-cheap-sys...
    - hx87 10y ago
      Buying licenses and having 4GB of memory (and being disappointed about it) implies a desktop PC, and even a $80 refurb on eBay has at least an 80 GB hard drive.
    - colejohnson66 10y ago
      So because tablet makers don't want to spend a few extra dollars on a dedicated flash chip for recovery, 32 bit is still a thing?
  - Dylan16807 10y ago
    There wasn't much technical reason for 32-bit windows to be limited to 4GB in the first place, so I wouldn't try too hard to make sense of it all.
    - colejohnson66 10y ago
      I thought Windows 32 bit supports PAE?
      - Dylan16807 10y ago
        They do, and they use it to support the NX bit, but they artificially restrict memory to 4GB on everything except the most expensive server SKUs.
chriswarbo 10y ago
> even faster is Ubuntu. it runs incredibly fast Heh, I use Linux (NixOS) with XMonad, st and Emacs, so it's always pretty responsive. Not used Windows in over a decade, so I can't comment on its speed. > But for more apps heavy users most apps won't work if the phone isn't on the latest OS version, and most old phones can't upgrade to the latest OS version. My phone runs Debian, so I haven't had any problems keeping up to date :)
- ashitlerferad 10y ago
  Which phone can run plain Debian??
  - chriswarbo 10y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner
    - ashitlerferad 10y ago
      Debian doesn't have a Linux kernel package for that. You can run Debian on almost any phone by using a fork of Linux for that phone.
- kagamine 10y ago
  Which model phone is that? I would love to have a linux phone or cheap tablet I could lend to my children that is not Android.
  - chriswarbo 10y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner

Yetanfou 10y ago

Same here, typing this on a Thinkpad T42p 'maxed out' with 2 GB. OK, it does contain an SSD (connected using a PATA-SATA converter which just fits between the drive and the connector, no external modification necessary) so it has seen some updates since being hatched but the thing is about 12 years old and still going strong. Not that I'd mind a bit more memory or CPU every now and then, mostly when confronted with 'modern' web pages... fortunately NoScript comes to the rescue there. Running Debian/Xmonad on the thing, works fine. I use a 5 yo phone (Motorola Defy+). It runs Android 4.4.4, thus far I've not seen a valid reason for wanting something newer. It still runs for about 4 days on a single charge, using the original battery. Things start looking bad for the tech industry when people start showing off with 'old' stuff instead of brand-spanking new.

technomancy 10y ago
> It runs Android 4.4.4, thus far I've not seen a valid reason for wanting something newer. I have an Android 4.4 phone, and while it has worked acceptably for me right now as I am self-employed, if I were working for a company that required me to have access to sensitive customer data, having a phone that still received security updates would be a hard requirement.
- Yetanfou 10y ago
  Well, yes, security updates can be important. However, since I run a home-built Android distribution on the thing I can keep it up to date with the most egregious bugs (SurfaceFlinger bug etc.). This leads to the odd situation where my oldish phone is more secure than my wife's much newer Xperia C3 running a stock 4.4.4 distribution. ..which reminds me I have some more work to do, given the recent publication of https://source.android.com/security/bulletin/2016-07-01.html https://source.android.com/security/bulletin/2016-07-01.html
  - softawre 10y ago
    Home-built as in you merge in bug fixes yourself? I understand that we talk about this sort of thing quite a bit, but I can't imagine actually doing it myself. My phone is just supposed to work for me so I can get my real work done and have time to enjoy outside of it. I'm not supposed to work for it. I'd guess you have to really enjoy working on that sort of thing, but then again you called it "work to do", so I'm not sure.