4 ms·

A car project seems complex enough that it demands its own org and will flounder as a division inside a company with other primary motivations (Google: Ads, App

A car project seems complex enough that it demands its own org and will flounder as a division inside a company with other primary motivations (Google: Ads, Apple: phones).

dougk16 10y ago
Agreed, but the tension there seems to be that it also demands an org with enough money to buy small countries. Not just for the R&D either but also to sway public opinion, change existing laws and create favorable new ones, and for lawsuit armor. Probably a bunch more wetware-associated costs. In fact R&D might end up being a tiny slice of spending.
- ocdtrekkie 10y ago
  I'd find a company being able to do many of those things to be kinda scary/bad. If the technology can actually stand on its own and pass rigorous independent testing, law and opinion will follow. The only reason you need to influence these things artificially, is if something isn't all there under the hood.
  - Paul-ish 10y ago
    This is overly idealistic. Many people are afraid of technologies they don't understand, and self driving cars will certainly be a technology people don't understand. I can already imagine the scaremongering headlines about self driving cars "assassinating" their passengers or pedestrians. Countering fear and uncertainty may take effort, and effort = money.
    - ocdtrekkie 10y ago
      The reason there's currently fear and uncertainty is because there's good reason to be. Tesla's troubles with people improperly understanding that their feature is a "beta" and watching Harry Potter on the highway aside, Google has routinely avoided mentioning their disengagement figures and "would-be accidents" avoided solely because they have professional test drivers, while repetitively citing how many total miles they've driven. The technology ISN'T there yet, but some PR departments are going full throttle that it is. This sort of disingenuous marketing is what causes these incidents, and causes these headlines to be blown out of proportion. Nobody's flipped out about car manufacturers having cars that can parallel park themselves and brake themselves to prevent collisions. Reason why: It's tested, it's reliable enough for a Detroit company to advertise it, and it's not oversold as "autopilot" or "self-driving". It just is.
      - skybrian 10y ago
        How do you know? The question is whether they're safer than human drivers and I think it's hard to tell from the public evidence.
      - csallen 10y ago
        I disagree with your first sentence. I know at least two people who've flat out told me they wouldn't trust computers driving their cars or even other cars on the highway regardless of how pristine their driving records were. Don't underestimate irrationality.
        ocdtrekkie 10y ago
        I bet we can find at least two people in this thread who would ALREADY trust a Google Self-Driving Car. Clearly, the guy watching Harry Potter while his Tesla flew down the highway towards a semi truck trusted his Tesla... and it cost him his life. For everyone you can find who will, without reason, be afraid of this technology, you will find someone who will, without reason, trust it implicitly.
    - purpleidea 10y ago
      These things aren't conspiracy theories or irrelevant. The fact that these are all driven (pun intended) by software which is highly proprietary, and not available for inspection by the consumers, is a major issue! The fact that it's an US company, at the will of secret US courts only makes it worse. And I didn't get into any of the car hobbyists who might want to modify their devices, or environmentalists who want to make sure someone isn't cheating on their emissions.
honkhonkpants 10y ago
There is no reason why an ads person from Google and a car person from X would ever cross paths.
- Animats 10y ago
  They might both take Google's in-house machine learning course.
kalleboo 10y ago
Isn't that why Google reorganized into Alphabet? Google and X are separate subsidiaries under Alphabet.
oh_sigh 10y ago
Self driving cars were in google X, which has basically no relation to ads besides for being funded by them indirectly.

A car project seems complex enough that it demands its own org and will flounder as a division inside a company with other primary motivations (Google: Ads, Apple: phones).

dougk16 10y ago

Agreed, but the tension there seems to be that it also demands an org with enough money to buy small countries. Not just for the R&D either but also to sway public opinion, change existing laws and create favorable new ones, and for lawsuit armor. Probably a bunch more wetware-associated costs. In fact R&D might end up being a tiny slice of spending.

ocdtrekkie 10y ago
I'd find a company being able to do many of those things to be kinda scary/bad. If the technology can actually stand on its own and pass rigorous independent testing, law and opinion will follow. The only reason you need to influence these things artificially, is if something isn't all there under the hood.
- Paul-ish 10y ago
  This is overly idealistic. Many people are afraid of technologies they don't understand, and self driving cars will certainly be a technology people don't understand. I can already imagine the scaremongering headlines about self driving cars "assassinating" their passengers or pedestrians. Countering fear and uncertainty may take effort, and effort = money.
  - ocdtrekkie 10y ago
    The reason there's currently fear and uncertainty is because there's good reason to be. Tesla's troubles with people improperly understanding that their feature is a "beta" and watching Harry Potter on the highway aside, Google has routinely avoided mentioning their disengagement figures and "would-be accidents" avoided solely because they have professional test drivers, while repetitively citing how many total miles they've driven. The technology ISN'T there yet, but some PR departments are going full throttle that it is. This sort of disingenuous marketing is what causes these incidents, and causes these headlines to be blown out of proportion. Nobody's flipped out about car manufacturers having cars that can parallel park themselves and brake themselves to prevent collisions. Reason why: It's tested, it's reliable enough for a Detroit company to advertise it, and it's not oversold as "autopilot" or "self-driving". It just is.
    - skybrian 10y ago
      How do you know? The question is whether they're safer than human drivers and I think it's hard to tell from the public evidence.
    - csallen 10y ago
      I disagree with your first sentence. I know at least two people who've flat out told me they wouldn't trust computers driving their cars or even other cars on the highway regardless of how pristine their driving records were. Don't underestimate irrationality.
      - ocdtrekkie 10y ago
        I bet we can find at least two people in this thread who would ALREADY trust a Google Self-Driving Car. Clearly, the guy watching Harry Potter while his Tesla flew down the highway towards a semi truck trusted his Tesla... and it cost him his life. For everyone you can find who will, without reason, be afraid of this technology, you will find someone who will, without reason, trust it implicitly.
  - purpleidea 10y ago
    These things aren't conspiracy theories or irrelevant. The fact that these are all driven (pun intended) by software which is highly proprietary, and not available for inspection by the consumers, is a major issue! The fact that it's an US company, at the will of secret US courts only makes it worse. And I didn't get into any of the car hobbyists who might want to modify their devices, or environmentalists who want to make sure someone isn't cheating on their emissions.

honkhonkpants 10y ago

There is no reason why an ads person from Google and a car person from X would ever cross paths.

Animats 10y ago
They might both take Google's in-house machine learning course.

kalleboo 10y ago

Isn't that why Google reorganized into Alphabet? Google and X are separate subsidiaries under Alphabet.

oh_sigh 10y ago

Self driving cars were in google X, which has basically no relation to ads besides for being funded by them indirectly.