5 ms·

For me it's not only about being safe. I don't have to worry too much about that sort of thing because I blend in most places in my country. But I've lived wher

by initram 10y ago

For me it's not only about being safe. I don't have to worry too much about that sort of thing because I blend in most places in my country. But I've lived where people had different values than me and it just gets exhausting. Constantly being bombarded with messages you fundamentally disagree with 24/7. Billboards; local TV; newpapers/web sites; overhearing conversations of the people around you; having odd things said to you; day in and day out. I don't mind that other people have different values than me. But I do mind having to be constantly surrounded by it and having nowhere to go to get away from it. I can't imagine what it's like to have that issue and also fear for your safety on a daily basis. That sucks and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

rpazyaquian 10y ago
It does suck. That's a big reason why we can't just concentrate progressivism in pinpoint areas like New England or Washington State. We need sweeping, national change in order for things to really get better.
- api 10y ago
  The urban/rural liberal/conservative cosmopolitan/tribal divide goes back to Roman times at least.
  - akshatpradhan 10y ago
    This post reminded me of this interesting 2 min video by ASAPScience about City vs Rural living: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRb52O76HxQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRb52O76HxQ
dionidium 10y ago
This really hits home for me. I grew up in rural Missouri where people can be pretty casual about a racist or homophobic slur, so you're often in a position where you have to decide if a confrontation is worth it, while not wanting to provide the encouragement or consent that a polite smile might imply. But that's rural Missouri. As I said in my other comment, urban centers are more or less progressive places all over the country.
abtinf 10y ago
This is a major reason why I left the bay area.
refurb 10y ago
But I've lived where people had different values than me and it just gets exhausting. Really? I thought diversity was a good thing? I know I wouldn't want to live somewhere where everyone thought the same thing I did. Sounds boring.
- vertex-four 10y ago
  So here's the thing - diversity of ideas is good, diversity of values is what people struggle with. As long as two people agree on where they're trying to go, they can disagree on the details of how to get there and still be perfectly happy - when either of them gets closer, both do. But, say you're a gun nut and the people surrounding you are decidedly anti-gun-ownership - there's no shared goal, and no obvious resolution to your differences. If the people surrounding you make progress towards their goal, it goes against yours. There's nothing to do but fight. And fighting is exhausting.
  - Erik816 10y ago
    Your example is one of a diversity of ideas. Some people have the idea that guns will keep them safe, others have the idea that guns will just bring on more violence. That is not a difference of values, because you can hold either position while valuing safety.
- logfromblammo 10y ago
  Diversity is a good thing. It's what keeps one opinion from forming a supermajority and subsequently browbeating all non-aligned opinions into lonely silence. For instance, a lot of people around here enjoy football--so many, in fact, that it leads people to assume that everybody likes it. I don't. I think it's a fundamentally flawed sport, and not particularly interesting to watch. But since it's so popular, it's all that anyone ever seems to talk about, especially around the time of the big university rivalry game. After the last pro game in February, I breathe a sigh of relief, thinking it's done until late summer, and maybe the sportos will turn to baseball or soccer or volleyball or lacrosse or water polo as a topic of conversation. Nope. Let's instead immediately speculate on next football season. Do other sports even exist around here? Can we talk about both Team Whyachi bots getting knocked out of the Battlebots tournament early? Maybe talk about non-Democrat and non-Republican political issues? Maybe you've read a book lately? No? All you know is football? Oh, great; you can also talk about how you go to your conservative Protestant Christian church more than once in any given week. This is why the spouse and I actually got excited to see a guy with visible piercings and tattoos. And to hear two lesbians with hideously thick Bostonian accents celebrate at a game. It's even sort of interesting to hear grown-ass adults talk about catching Pokemon. When everyone is the same, doing and saying the same thing, it is so tediously boring that it hurts. That is exhausting.
logfromblammo 10y ago
It's bad enough when people say "buggy" instead of "cart" or "coke" or "soda" instead of "pop". I can only imagine how much faster my social stamina would be depleted if everyone around me were constantly arguing about whether it would be better if I didn't exist at all, or if I just went far away, never to return.
- justinlardinois 10y ago
  I was with you until you said that "pop" was your preferred terminology.
- Aloha 10y ago
  I travel frequently - I just call it by whatever name its called locally.

by initram 10y ago

rpazyaquian 10y ago

It does suck. That's a big reason why we can't just concentrate progressivism in pinpoint areas like New England or Washington State. We need sweeping, national change in order for things to really get better.

api 10y ago
The urban/rural liberal/conservative cosmopolitan/tribal divide goes back to Roman times at least.
- akshatpradhan 10y ago
  This post reminded me of this interesting 2 min video by ASAPScience about City vs Rural living: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRb52O76HxQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRb52O76HxQ

dionidium 10y ago

This really hits home for me. I grew up in rural Missouri where people can be pretty casual about a racist or homophobic slur, so you're often in a position where you have to decide if a confrontation is worth it, while not wanting to provide the encouragement or consent that a polite smile might imply. But that's rural Missouri. As I said in my other comment, urban centers are more or less progressive places all over the country.

abtinf 10y ago

This is a major reason why I left the bay area.

refurb 10y ago

But I've lived where people had different values than me and it just gets exhausting. Really? I thought diversity was a good thing? I know I wouldn't want to live somewhere where everyone thought the same thing I did. Sounds boring.

vertex-four 10y ago
So here's the thing - diversity of ideas is good, diversity of values is what people struggle with. As long as two people agree on where they're trying to go, they can disagree on the details of how to get there and still be perfectly happy - when either of them gets closer, both do. But, say you're a gun nut and the people surrounding you are decidedly anti-gun-ownership - there's no shared goal, and no obvious resolution to your differences. If the people surrounding you make progress towards their goal, it goes against yours. There's nothing to do but fight. And fighting is exhausting.
- Erik816 10y ago
  Your example is one of a diversity of ideas. Some people have the idea that guns will keep them safe, others have the idea that guns will just bring on more violence. That is not a difference of values, because you can hold either position while valuing safety.
logfromblammo 10y ago
Diversity is a good thing. It's what keeps one opinion from forming a supermajority and subsequently browbeating all non-aligned opinions into lonely silence. For instance, a lot of people around here enjoy football--so many, in fact, that it leads people to assume that everybody likes it. I don't. I think it's a fundamentally flawed sport, and not particularly interesting to watch. But since it's so popular, it's all that anyone ever seems to talk about, especially around the time of the big university rivalry game. After the last pro game in February, I breathe a sigh of relief, thinking it's done until late summer, and maybe the sportos will turn to baseball or soccer or volleyball or lacrosse or water polo as a topic of conversation. Nope. Let's instead immediately speculate on next football season. Do other sports even exist around here? Can we talk about both Team Whyachi bots getting knocked out of the Battlebots tournament early? Maybe talk about non-Democrat and non-Republican political issues? Maybe you've read a book lately? No? All you know is football? Oh, great; you can also talk about how you go to your conservative Protestant Christian church more than once in any given week. This is why the spouse and I actually got excited to see a guy with visible piercings and tattoos. And to hear two lesbians with hideously thick Bostonian accents celebrate at a game. It's even sort of interesting to hear grown-ass adults talk about catching Pokemon. When everyone is the same, doing and saying the same thing, it is so tediously boring that it hurts. That is exhausting.

logfromblammo 10y ago

It's bad enough when people say "buggy" instead of "cart" or "coke" or "soda" instead of "pop". I can only imagine how much faster my social stamina would be depleted if everyone around me were constantly arguing about whether it would be better if I didn't exist at all, or if I just went far away, never to return.

justinlardinois 10y ago
I was with you until you said that "pop" was your preferred terminology.
Aloha 10y ago
I travel frequently - I just call it by whatever name its called locally.