6 ms·

There are things that we shouln't work with, but we do because we don't know the associated risk, some examples: -maintenance of your DOT4 brakes? do not tou

by xlayn 10y ago

There are things that we shouln't work with, but we do because we don't know the associated risk, some examples: -maintenance of your DOT4 brakes? do not touch the DOT4 brake fuild, it's absorbed though your skin and it will kill your kidneys when they try to filter it. -Old house in america? check you don't have any pipe soldered with lead, hot water will eventually make it evaporate -lead in electrical solder wire -mercury, a powerful neuro-toxin Edit: -again, old house, check to change the paint, yep, lead in the pain again. -close to an airport? beside noise, lead in the airplanes fuel -Teflon... again Dupont and 3M -Aluminum on cookware... toxic lead was one of the technical debts introduced by a guy (1)... the same guy who introduce it to the fuel making a generation at least 10 iq point less smart.... and created the CFCs in aerosol... Dupont, GM and others did a lot of money on that.... as always. (1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley,_Jr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley,_Jr.

YZF 10y ago
Pretty sure the lead in solder is not a huge concern for occasional random use. Wash your hands and don't breath the fumes...
- refurb 10y ago
  Pretty sure metallic mercury isn't that toxic unless you inhale the vapors. Mercury salts or organomercury compounds are MUCH more toxic. Pretty sure DOT4 brake fluid isn't that toxic.
  - marcosdumay 10y ago
    Mercury is different because it does emit vapors at usual temperature ranges. Very little vapor, but long term exposition can be damaging, even if you don't ever touch it.
- sean-duffy 10y ago
  The fumes don't contain lead as it has a very high boiling point. The flux can be in the fumes though, which can be harmful.
kirrent 10y ago
What's wrong with lead in solder? I wash my hands after soldering every time and I can't imagine how I'm really exposed otherwise. Professionals who solder long periods every day are far more likely to have adverse health outcomes from inadequately vented flux fumes.
- xlayn 10y ago
  The most affected by lead are the kids, also the relationship to IQ decrease happens on infancy.
  - kirrent 10y ago
    Oh cool, so I can be even more blase than I am.
- analog31 10y ago
  As I understand it, the main issue with lead is disposal.
  - CamperBob2 10y ago
    I think what the RoHS people really wanted to do was shut down lead smelters, which are nasty enough in themselves. They just used a nuclear weapon where a BB gun would have sufficed, and were indiscriminate about their choice of targets. As far as disposal goes, there is some concern about lead in CRTs and solder leaching its way down into the water table and back up to our taps, but no one has ever demonstrated exactly how that happens to my satisfaction. I'll concede the point that it's best not to throw it away.
    - analog31 10y ago
      A mechanism that I don't even think was anticipated by the RoHS people, was that electronic waste was being shipped to third world countries, e.g., Europe to Africa, where people were burning the circuit boards in open air (perhaps assisted by kerosene) to collect and sell the metals.
codemac 10y ago
Aluminum on cookware? A lot of cookware is aluminum in most professional kitchens..
- xlayn 10y ago
  So it seems... http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=dailytip&dbid=92 http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=dailytip&dbid=92 Seems like the gold standard of cookware it's cast iron.
  - legulere 10y ago
    > This metal has consistently been placed in the top 200 health-jeopardizing toxins by the ATSDR (Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry) at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. So if we look at the list at https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/spl/ https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/spl/ it says: > It should be noted that this priority list is not a list of "most toxic" substances, but rather a prioritization of substances based on a combination of their frequency, toxicity, and potential for human exposure at NPL sites. The list also contains other metals as copper or silver. If you actually read their profile about aluminium it's mostly about inhalation of aluminium dust (who is surprised that inhaling metal dust destroys your lungs?), aluminium buildup in people with kidney diseases (also not too surprising that all kind of stuff builds up in your body if your kidneys don't work anymore), and chemical compounds that contain aluminium e.g. antacids and buffered aspirin. The only really interesting thing in there is the link with alzheimer's disease. > Another neurological effect that has been proposed to be associated with aluminum exposure is Alzheimer’s disease. Although a possible association was proposed over 40 years ago, this association is still highly controversial and there is little consensus regarding current evidence. A number of studies have found weak associations between living in areas with elevated aluminum levels in drinking water and an increased risk (or prevalence) of Alzheimer’s disease; other studies have not found significant associations. In contrast, no significant associations have been found between tea consumption or antacid use and the risk of Alzheimer’s disease; although the levels of aluminum in tea and antacids are very high compared to drinking water, aluminum from these sources is poorly absorbed. The available data do not suggest that aluminum is a causative agent of Alzheimer’s disease; however, it is possible that it may play a role in the disease development. Oh and they also found neurotoxicity in animals if they were fed ridiculous amounts of aluminium.
JaggedNZ 10y ago
-lead in electrical solder wire As pointed out by other contributors, lead in electrical solder is not a big risk with appropriate handling (i.e. wash your hands) I've been soldering as a hobbyist since my teens and hand had lead blood levels checked (see below) with no issue. Fumes from Rosin are a far greater risk and is a known cause of industrial asthma. A much bigger risk of lead exposure is your local rifle range, esp. down range (i.e. the backboards / target area's) Anecdotal warning TBH, but I meet a guy running an air rifle club and who also ran several other clubs up-to large bore shooting, and had been diagnosed with lead poisoning. He was also a re-loader, but blamed down range exposure.
- grkvlt 10y ago
  > A much bigger risk of lead exposure is your local rifle range, esp. down range (i.e. the backboards / target area's) I would guess instantly fatal levels of exposure, if you hang around at the target area during a shoot...
  - soundwave106 10y ago
    There is that. :) But is true that the CDC lists shooting firearms (target shooting) as the #1 non-occupational source of elevated blood lead levels. http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6025a2.htm#tab http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6025a2.htm#tab (It is certainly preventable with proper procedure -- https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2009-136/pdfs/2009-136.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2009-136/pdfs/2009-136.pdf -- but I guess some operators are not aware of the risks, unfortunately.) Lead in solder doesn't even make the CDC's table.
sbierwagen 10y ago
1) DOT4 doesn't exactly jump through the skin-- it's no dimethylmercury, or even DMSO. Its MSDS recommends against "prolonged" skin contact. It's not much worse than any other common hydrocarbon solvent, like gasoline. http://www.brake-eng.com/global/downloads/dot4fl%20dot%204%20material%20safety%20data%20sheet.pdf http://www.brake-eng.com/global/downloads/dot4fl%20dot%204%2... 2.) Hot water certainly doesn't "evaporate" lead-- lead's boiling point is 1700C. Hot water can leach lead from solder joints, if your water isn't treated properly: https://www.epa.gov/ground-water-and-drinking-water/basic-information-about-lead-drinking-water https://www.epa.gov/ground-water-and-drinking-water/basic-in... 3.) Yeah, lead solder isn't great to spend a lot of time with, which is why RoHS was introduced in 2003: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Substances_Directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Subst... 4.) Where are you going to find bulk metallic mercury in any house built in the last three decades? 5.) Lead paint was also phased out years ago. 6.) Leaded avgas does still exist, and is bad. Don't buy property near airports that fly small planes. 7.) Teflon is about as chemically inert as a flororcarbon can possibly be. You might be thinking of Perfluorooctanoic acid, which is involved in Teflon production, and is pretty nasty: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorooctanoic_acid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorooctanoic_acid 8.) Aluminum cookware isn't toxic, are you nuts?
- steffan 10y ago
  While we're issuing corrections... > Hot water can leech lead from solder joints, It's leach
  - sbierwagen 10y ago
    Fixed. What a wonderful quirk of English, that both words mean mostly the same thing, but one is an animal, while the other is a verb.
    - legulere 10y ago
      Both can be both a verb and a noun: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/leech#English https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/leech#English https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/leach#English https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/leach#English
Spooky23 10y ago
Most of those things are exaggerated risks without context. For example, from the MSDS for DOT-4 brake fluid: Skin Contact: May cause irritation. Brake fluid may be slowly absorbed through the skin. Excessive exposure for extended periods of time involving large areas of skin would be necessary for absorption of harmful amounts.
- seanp2k2 10y ago
  I still wear the "extreme" nitrile gloves from Harbor Freight (black, 9mil), a P100 respirator, and safety goggles when working with it or doing any car maintenance. Who knows what other nasties are in all that road grime.
  - grkvlt 10y ago
    And note that the same brake fluid is also used in push bikes, if they have hydraulic disk brake setups.
    - blacksmith_tb 10y ago
      Hmm, I have hydraulic brakes on a one of my bicycles, Shimano Saints, and they use mineral oil... not generally considered too risky to have in contact with skin.
dredmorbius 10y ago
Avgas is leaded petrol (gasoline in the US), used in reciprocating piston engines. That is, small planes. (You might also find it in wankel or rotary compression/combustion engines, though those are rare.) Gas turbines, which you'll find on major airliners and many propellor craft (turboprops) burn what's effectively kerosene. The lead is added to petrol to avoid knocking, a problem where you're compressing fuel in a cylinder (or again, compression-rotary engine). It's not used in most commercial aviation. Yes, if there are small craft flying out of your commercial airport, you'll have some lead exposure. But it's your small and personal craft that are the bigger concern. (As with several other cautions here, the advice you're giving is incomplete, misleading, or in several cases, simply wrong. Lead in paint and plumbing, yes. Mercury, yes. Teflon? Maybe. Aluminium? No.)
pmiller2 10y ago
Wow. TIL the same man was responsible for CFC refrigerants and tetraethyl lead in gasoline.
- mcguire 10y ago
  Check out how he died.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

by xlayn 10y ago

YZF 10y ago

Pretty sure the lead in solder is not a huge concern for occasional random use. Wash your hands and don't breath the fumes...

refurb 10y ago
Pretty sure metallic mercury isn't that toxic unless you inhale the vapors. Mercury salts or organomercury compounds are MUCH more toxic. Pretty sure DOT4 brake fluid isn't that toxic.
- marcosdumay 10y ago
  Mercury is different because it does emit vapors at usual temperature ranges. Very little vapor, but long term exposition can be damaging, even if you don't ever touch it.
sean-duffy 10y ago
The fumes don't contain lead as it has a very high boiling point. The flux can be in the fumes though, which can be harmful.

kirrent 10y ago

What's wrong with lead in solder? I wash my hands after soldering every time and I can't imagine how I'm really exposed otherwise. Professionals who solder long periods every day are far more likely to have adverse health outcomes from inadequately vented flux fumes.

xlayn 10y ago
The most affected by lead are the kids, also the relationship to IQ decrease happens on infancy.
- kirrent 10y ago
  Oh cool, so I can be even more blase than I am.
analog31 10y ago
As I understand it, the main issue with lead is disposal.
- CamperBob2 10y ago
  I think what the RoHS people really wanted to do was shut down lead smelters, which are nasty enough in themselves. They just used a nuclear weapon where a BB gun would have sufficed, and were indiscriminate about their choice of targets. As far as disposal goes, there is some concern about lead in CRTs and solder leaching its way down into the water table and back up to our taps, but no one has ever demonstrated exactly how that happens to my satisfaction. I'll concede the point that it's best not to throw it away.
  - analog31 10y ago
    A mechanism that I don't even think was anticipated by the RoHS people, was that electronic waste was being shipped to third world countries, e.g., Europe to Africa, where people were burning the circuit boards in open air (perhaps assisted by kerosene) to collect and sell the metals.

codemac 10y ago

Aluminum on cookware? A lot of cookware is aluminum in most professional kitchens..

xlayn 10y ago
So it seems... http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=dailytip&dbid=92 http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=dailytip&dbid=92 Seems like the gold standard of cookware it's cast iron.
- legulere 10y ago
  > This metal has consistently been placed in the top 200 health-jeopardizing toxins by the ATSDR (Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry) at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. So if we look at the list at https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/spl/ https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/spl/ it says: > It should be noted that this priority list is not a list of "most toxic" substances, but rather a prioritization of substances based on a combination of their frequency, toxicity, and potential for human exposure at NPL sites. The list also contains other metals as copper or silver. If you actually read their profile about aluminium it's mostly about inhalation of aluminium dust (who is surprised that inhaling metal dust destroys your lungs?), aluminium buildup in people with kidney diseases (also not too surprising that all kind of stuff builds up in your body if your kidneys don't work anymore), and chemical compounds that contain aluminium e.g. antacids and buffered aspirin. The only really interesting thing in there is the link with alzheimer's disease. > Another neurological effect that has been proposed to be associated with aluminum exposure is Alzheimer’s disease. Although a possible association was proposed over 40 years ago, this association is still highly controversial and there is little consensus regarding current evidence. A number of studies have found weak associations between living in areas with elevated aluminum levels in drinking water and an increased risk (or prevalence) of Alzheimer’s disease; other studies have not found significant associations. In contrast, no significant associations have been found between tea consumption or antacid use and the risk of Alzheimer’s disease; although the levels of aluminum in tea and antacids are very high compared to drinking water, aluminum from these sources is poorly absorbed. The available data do not suggest that aluminum is a causative agent of Alzheimer’s disease; however, it is possible that it may play a role in the disease development. Oh and they also found neurotoxicity in animals if they were fed ridiculous amounts of aluminium.

JaggedNZ 10y ago

-lead in electrical solder wire As pointed out by other contributors, lead in electrical solder is not a big risk with appropriate handling (i.e. wash your hands) I've been soldering as a hobbyist since my teens and hand had lead blood levels checked (see below) with no issue. Fumes from Rosin are a far greater risk and is a known cause of industrial asthma. A much bigger risk of lead exposure is your local rifle range, esp. down range (i.e. the backboards / target area's) Anecdotal warning TBH, but I meet a guy running an air rifle club and who also ran several other clubs up-to large bore shooting, and had been diagnosed with lead poisoning. He was also a re-loader, but blamed down range exposure.

grkvlt 10y ago
> A much bigger risk of lead exposure is your local rifle range, esp. down range (i.e. the backboards / target area's) I would guess instantly fatal levels of exposure, if you hang around at the target area during a shoot...
- soundwave106 10y ago
  There is that. :) But is true that the CDC lists shooting firearms (target shooting) as the #1 non-occupational source of elevated blood lead levels. http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6025a2.htm#tab http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6025a2.htm#tab (It is certainly preventable with proper procedure -- https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2009-136/pdfs/2009-136.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2009-136/pdfs/2009-136.pdf -- but I guess some operators are not aware of the risks, unfortunately.) Lead in solder doesn't even make the CDC's table.

sbierwagen 10y ago

1) DOT4 doesn't exactly jump through the skin-- it's no dimethylmercury, or even DMSO. Its MSDS recommends against "prolonged" skin contact. It's not much worse than any other common hydrocarbon solvent, like gasoline. http://www.brake-eng.com/global/downloads/dot4fl%20dot%204%20material%20safety%20data%20sheet.pdf http://www.brake-eng.com/global/downloads/dot4fl%20dot%204%2... 2.) Hot water certainly doesn't "evaporate" lead-- lead's boiling point is 1700C. Hot water can leach lead from solder joints, if your water isn't treated properly: https://www.epa.gov/ground-water-and-drinking-water/basic-information-about-lead-drinking-water https://www.epa.gov/ground-water-and-drinking-water/basic-in... 3.) Yeah, lead solder isn't great to spend a lot of time with, which is why RoHS was introduced in 2003: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Substances_Directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Subst... 4.) Where are you going to find bulk metallic mercury in any house built in the last three decades? 5.) Lead paint was also phased out years ago. 6.) Leaded avgas does still exist, and is bad. Don't buy property near airports that fly small planes. 7.) Teflon is about as chemically inert as a flororcarbon can possibly be. You might be thinking of Perfluorooctanoic acid, which is involved in Teflon production, and is pretty nasty: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorooctanoic_acid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorooctanoic_acid 8.) Aluminum cookware isn't toxic, are you nuts?

steffan 10y ago
While we're issuing corrections... > Hot water can leech lead from solder joints, It's leach
- sbierwagen 10y ago
  Fixed. What a wonderful quirk of English, that both words mean mostly the same thing, but one is an animal, while the other is a verb.
  - legulere 10y ago
    Both can be both a verb and a noun: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/leech#English https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/leech#English https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/leach#English https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/leach#English

Spooky23 10y ago

Most of those things are exaggerated risks without context. For example, from the MSDS for DOT-4 brake fluid: Skin Contact: May cause irritation. Brake fluid may be slowly absorbed through the skin. Excessive exposure for extended periods of time involving large areas of skin would be necessary for absorption of harmful amounts.

seanp2k2 10y ago
I still wear the "extreme" nitrile gloves from Harbor Freight (black, 9mil), a P100 respirator, and safety goggles when working with it or doing any car maintenance. Who knows what other nasties are in all that road grime.
- grkvlt 10y ago
  And note that the same brake fluid is also used in push bikes, if they have hydraulic disk brake setups.
  - blacksmith_tb 10y ago
    Hmm, I have hydraulic brakes on a one of my bicycles, Shimano Saints, and they use mineral oil... not generally considered too risky to have in contact with skin.

dredmorbius 10y ago

Avgas is leaded petrol (gasoline in the US), used in reciprocating piston engines. That is, small planes. (You might also find it in wankel or rotary compression/combustion engines, though those are rare.) Gas turbines, which you'll find on major airliners and many propellor craft (turboprops) burn what's effectively kerosene. The lead is added to petrol to avoid knocking, a problem where you're compressing fuel in a cylinder (or again, compression-rotary engine). It's not used in most commercial aviation. Yes, if there are small craft flying out of your commercial airport, you'll have some lead exposure. But it's your small and personal craft that are the bigger concern. (As with several other cautions here, the advice you're giving is incomplete, misleading, or in several cases, simply wrong. Lead in paint and plumbing, yes. Mercury, yes. Teflon? Maybe. Aluminium? No.)

pmiller2 10y ago

Wow. TIL the same man was responsible for CFC refrigerants and tetraethyl lead in gasoline.

mcguire 10y ago
Check out how he died.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]