4 ms·

The article describes pretty well the shocking reality Europeans discover moving in San Francisco and honestly I absolutely concur for the most part. But wait,

by gbin 10y ago

The article describes pretty well the shocking reality Europeans discover moving in San Francisco and honestly I absolutely concur for the most part. But wait, he glorifies his past alternative life but does feels comfortable in a place where Internet is openly censored and spied on to track and torture activists ? Didn't he just say he loves talking about politics ? People don't get killed by their government for putting Bernie Sanders stickers on their cars here... Even this aside, on the business side and as a foreigner I would be very scared there: from gutter oil to copycats, it feels totally lawless. What's gonna happen to him if he is successful?

nilspihl 10y ago
Yeah... I did call it a frontier, and I meant that with the good and the bad. -Nils
seanmcdirmid 10y ago
The gutter oil is a thing, but don't eat at very cheap restraunts and you'll be fine. Copycats are only a prob if you are successful enough to be copied. As a foreigner, or anyone for that matter, you are free to express your opinion until people start actually listening to it, so feel free to put Bernie sanders on your car. The censorship sucks, but you probably aren't getting tortured unless that's your thing. Beijing is a third world city with first world aspirations. The most annoying thing about it is just propaganda and the outright lying about what the situation really is. China cares way too much about faces and Beijing has nothing going for it beyond its government top-down mandate (other cities in China are much more appropriate as tech hubs).
paradite 10y ago
> People don't get killed by their government for putting Bernie Sanders stickers on their cars here... That's an extreme exaggeration. I know human rights record in China is not good, but getting killed for doing minor things like that don't happen. And I am surprised that you brought up killing because U.S. does not do well in this area either.
- zeveb 10y ago
  > I know human rights record in China is not good, but getting killed for doing minor things like that don't happen. China harvests organs from people who belong to a rather wacky religion[1]. That's pretty bad, and I think counts as getting killed for something minor. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go...
  - paradite 10y ago
    Well that is an much more complicated issue. First you need to decide whether that religion is illegal or not. That has been a debated subject for many years. From the Chinese government's standpoint, the religion is illegal, and the people practicing it are put into prison. Then you have to decide if it is ethical and legal to harvest human organs from prisoners (on death penalty of course). This again has be debated over many decades. Bottom line is, you committed a crime by practicing a religion deemed as illegal in China so that is something not minor.
    - stale2002 10y ago
      You don't think that it isn't an outrage that such a law even exists in the first place? Yes, it is against the law. The violence against these people is sanctioned by the government. Thats the whole reason it is horrifying! It is not a tricky issue. The fact that this is all sponsored and done by the government makes it even worse!
specialist 10y ago
"...shocking reality Europeans discover moving in San Francisco..." I had an Aussie partner. He came to the USA for the laissez-faire paradise. He explained it was relatively tougher for startups down under. I believe him. Seeing our (USA) squalor, day in and day out, he began to doubt. Rhetorically, he asked "If this is the result, maybe Aussie's high taxes aren't so bad."

by gbin 10y ago

nilspihl 10y ago

Yeah... I did call it a frontier, and I meant that with the good and the bad. -Nils

seanmcdirmid 10y ago

The gutter oil is a thing, but don't eat at very cheap restraunts and you'll be fine. Copycats are only a prob if you are successful enough to be copied. As a foreigner, or anyone for that matter, you are free to express your opinion until people start actually listening to it, so feel free to put Bernie sanders on your car. The censorship sucks, but you probably aren't getting tortured unless that's your thing. Beijing is a third world city with first world aspirations. The most annoying thing about it is just propaganda and the outright lying about what the situation really is. China cares way too much about faces and Beijing has nothing going for it beyond its government top-down mandate (other cities in China are much more appropriate as tech hubs).

paradite 10y ago

> People don't get killed by their government for putting Bernie Sanders stickers on their cars here... That's an extreme exaggeration. I know human rights record in China is not good, but getting killed for doing minor things like that don't happen. And I am surprised that you brought up killing because U.S. does not do well in this area either.

zeveb 10y ago
> I know human rights record in China is not good, but getting killed for doing minor things like that don't happen. China harvests organs from people who belong to a rather wacky religion[1]. That's pretty bad, and I think counts as getting killed for something minor. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go...
- paradite 10y ago
  Well that is an much more complicated issue. First you need to decide whether that religion is illegal or not. That has been a debated subject for many years. From the Chinese government's standpoint, the religion is illegal, and the people practicing it are put into prison. Then you have to decide if it is ethical and legal to harvest human organs from prisoners (on death penalty of course). This again has be debated over many decades. Bottom line is, you committed a crime by practicing a religion deemed as illegal in China so that is something not minor.
  - stale2002 10y ago
    You don't think that it isn't an outrage that such a law even exists in the first place? Yes, it is against the law. The violence against these people is sanctioned by the government. Thats the whole reason it is horrifying! It is not a tricky issue. The fact that this is all sponsored and done by the government makes it even worse!

specialist 10y ago

"...shocking reality Europeans discover moving in San Francisco..." I had an Aussie partner. He came to the USA for the laissez-faire paradise. He explained it was relatively tougher for startups down under. I believe him. Seeing our (USA) squalor, day in and day out, he began to doubt. Rhetorically, he asked "If this is the result, maybe Aussie's high taxes aren't so bad."