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I have lived in China for some time and I am kind of tired of refuting nytimes, washingtonpost propaganda about China. Everything you read on those newspapers

by pipio21 10y ago

I have lived in China for some time and I am kind of tired of refuting nytimes, washingtonpost propaganda about China. Everything you read on those newspapers is about propaganda, propaganda to influence most small investors(what they call dumb money)on one of the financial centers of the world New York, or propaganda to influence politicians on the US political center of US, Washington. The elite financial industry that rules USA really admires China authoritarianism. China is an enormous country with lots of great things, but innovation is not one of their "fortes". There is a big bubble there that is going to do bang and is not going to be pretty. Not so good important things about China( that of course the propaganda omits): -Their internet is shit, capped by Government and closed to the outside world. -There is an army of spies(more than a million) working for the State, everything you do is controlled. - There is way less women than men because the Government let people basically kill girls with selective abortion or after being born. -They are communist, the interest of the individual is always subordinated to the community. If you have a girl with a Chinese woman outside China when you visit China they can refuse to let the girl go out. China needs girls.

nstj 10y ago
> There is way less women than men because the Government let people basically kill girls with selective abortion or after being born. To put in in to perspective, there are 1.06 males per female in China [0] which though high, isn't materially different to other large developing countries such as India and Pakistan. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sex_ratio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sex_ratio
- learc83 10y ago
  Those numbers get a lot worse when you look at sex ratio among children under 5. I've seen estimates as high as 1.25, with some provinces above 1.3. Anything above 1.07 at birth is proof of selectively aborting girls.
- Nothorized 10y ago
  Your link does not seems to work for me, but after a small Wikipedia research : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sex_ratio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sex_ratio On another note, the ratio for Arabic countries in the peninsula are quite fucked up. If you see the TV show "Generation Kill" from HBO, the character played by James Ranson has a theory, which is quite interesting watching the numbers : there would not be a single war if there was enough women in the Arabic Peninsula.
richmarr 10y ago
> innovation is not one of their "fortes" Downvoting because almost-entirely off-topic, and TBH slightly racist.
Asetsuna 10y ago
LOL, yeah, you are right, things you given "must be" the reasons why innovation is not one of Chinese's "fortes". But the problem is they are innovating, in fact, and making more and more influence in the world. I can not believe you lived in China and know none of those "big" news from Chinese...
- varjag 10y ago
  OK seriously. What innovation are we talking now, aside of mobile redux of PayPal? They shown the world how to land a rocket stage intact? Perhaps they developed a bunch of new medical treatments that are not actually snake oil? They invented social networks that the rest of the world copied in envy? Introduced touchscreen tech that's actually usable? Honestly I must have missed all the "big" news in soft and hard tech, 'cause another eBay clone is sure as hell ain't big. It feels like rerun of Japan craze from 3 decades back, only without ninjas and shurikens this time.
  - Asetsuna 10y ago
    if we talk seriously, the best way is to check all the top computer science conferences where "cutting edge" papers are published rather than nyt news. Yeah, maybe you and I don't want it to be the truth but I guess you can find much more Chinese names as what you expected. And more names next year, I guess.
    - varjag 10y ago
      It also pays to check the universities affiliated in the papers. More often than not they are not Chinese but the usual gang of suspects, even if there's an ethnic Chinese coauthor.
      - Asetsuna 10y ago
        So they can innovate but need to learn how to do it best. And actually in some research directions, they(go back to China) are leading now. It's just the beginning of the innovation explosion from China, I guess. An opponent stronger than japan.
tcper 10y ago
If you have a girl with a Chinese woman outside China when you visit China they can refuse to let the girl go out. China needs girls. Can't understand this, why they refuse the girl out?
chrischen 10y ago
Is there any chance you're an expat living in China? Many expats complain about the internet because theytry to access the foreign internet. Internet within China is actually very speedy. Regarding gender imbalance, this wasa cultural issue. It's a problemin many cultures where male heirs are preferred over female heirs. I'd also lile to point out the Bay Area also has an infamous gender imbalance issue.
- idra 10y ago
  In the same way that having sex with children is a "cultural issue" [1]. Chinese culture still has many elements that are absolutely barbaric and primitive. The concept of "face" is one of them too. [1] http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-36892963 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-36892963
  - robjan 10y ago
    Why is face barbaric and primitive? Please do bear in mind that "they" use HN as well.
mac01021 10y ago
Do you have a citation for that last one? (I'm having a girl with a Chinese woman and we're planning to visit...)
- netheril96 10y ago
  He's just bullshitting.
Al-Khwarizmi 10y ago
Why is being communist bad for innovation? In 40 years, the Soviet Union went from a medieval-like society with 95% of the people being peasants working their lords' lands, to inventing LEDs, grid-scale nuclear power, orbital launches, artificial satellites, manned space flight, commercial supersonic flight, seminal work in transplantation and artificial organs, etc. It became the second world superpower in science and innovation, which by the way, it no longer isn't after the fall of communism. It was pretty much an economic miracle, like the so-called "German miracle" and "Japanese miracle", although of course most current thinkers won't recognize it because Communism is Bad(tm) and it seems we can only think in black and white (as the Soviet Union had an autochratic and murderous regime, apparently we can't say what they did right). So I don't think the statement that communism is bad for innovation holds water historically. It's bad for other things, but not necessarily for innovation.
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  Maybe the Russians already had it in them and we're just being held back by bad government? You don't just grow a science community in a generation you either (a) steal it (e.g. From Germany) or (b) nurture it over a long time, and the USSR was able to have both. Russia just didn't go from people running around in loin clothes to sending robots into space after the Bolshevik Revolution. There is already a deep scientific culture their before. China even more so. For much of history, China has been the richest country on earth! Not just total, but even per capita! Ya, the late Qing and republic eras were a mess, but that China would prosper after a period of decline has happened before and isn't surprising. Mao's Great Leap Forward and cultural revolution probably hurt more than helped, and China is mostly where it is today inspite of the communists. It's all about the people. Germany and Japan were both developed before they were devestated, and knew collectively how to develop again; it wasn't a miracle in any case. Leading countries tend to lead even when knocked back with setbacks. What is perhaps a miracle was Germany breaking away from its Holy Roman Empire roots in the first place, or Japan modernizing in the mid 19th century (incidentally, this happened at the same time). Once you make that "step", you are likely not to fall backwards.
- plandis 10y ago
  Correlation doesn't equal causation. I don't think you can say that just because those things happened under communism means that communism is good for innovation. In fact, you could just as well argue that modern day Russia persisteted even despite communism.
Geeshang 10y ago
Totally bullshit! I am Chinese. I have to reply, cause someone here even believe the shit you told. "- There is way less women than men because the Government let people basically kill girls with selective abortion or after being born." Fucking crazy, No Government never do this. "- If you have a girl with a Chinese woman outside China when you visit China they can refuse to let the girl go out. China needs girls." Where you get it, No this will never happen in China "-They are communist, the interest of the individual is always subordinated to the community. " Only the Party's name is communist now in China.
- DominikR 10y ago
  Pretty strong wording but I definitely have to agree on this sentence: > There is way less women than men because the Government let people basically kill girls with selective abortion or after being born. There is no possible benefit imaginable for any government to encourage the killing of girls. This just doesn't make sense from a Collectivist perspective. I believe that China actually had strong laws that forbid doctors from telling pregnant women which sex their child would have because many Chinese in rural areas would abort female children on their own accord. This was basically because of the one child policy and the fact that Chinese men are supposed to take care of their parents when they get old. So it was more of a result of really bad government policy and self interest of families. But from what I know the one child policy has officially ended in China, so I don't think this will be a big issue in the future.
  - selectodude 10y ago
    There's something like 80 million more males than females there. That's a lot of angry disillusioned men to deal with.
chmod775 10y ago
I honestly don't know what you are "refuting" with that. You listed some very generic things that are "wrong" with China, but have nothing to do with the point NYTimes was trying to make. The article was talking about how China is ahead of the west in regards to mobile payment methods, and you try to refute that by saying they have an army of spies and are communist, and also have less women and limited access to websites outside china? I don't get it. If you said: "From living in China for X years I can tell you that it isn't really the case that almost any fruit vendor accepts payment via mobile phone, and it isn't really a common payment method." - That would've been valid criticism addressing the core points of the NYTimes article. As it stands though your comment fits perfectly in the stream of comments trying to downplay the articles credibility without actually addressing it, which is somehow common of any article mentioning "China" and things like "cutting edge" and "innovation" and is making me increasingly suspicious of who is actually spreading propaganda. Edit: And honestly the things you listed are common knowledge by now, and have no place in an article about mobile tech in China. That would be like including a paragraph about Guantanamo bay in every article about Silicon Valley.

by pipio21 10y ago

nstj 10y ago

> There is way less women than men because the Government let people basically kill girls with selective abortion or after being born. To put in in to perspective, there are 1.06 males per female in China [0] which though high, isn't materially different to other large developing countries such as India and Pakistan. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sex_ratio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sex_ratio

learc83 10y ago
Those numbers get a lot worse when you look at sex ratio among children under 5. I've seen estimates as high as 1.25, with some provinces above 1.3. Anything above 1.07 at birth is proof of selectively aborting girls.
Nothorized 10y ago
Your link does not seems to work for me, but after a small Wikipedia research : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sex_ratio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sex_ratio On another note, the ratio for Arabic countries in the peninsula are quite fucked up. If you see the TV show "Generation Kill" from HBO, the character played by James Ranson has a theory, which is quite interesting watching the numbers : there would not be a single war if there was enough women in the Arabic Peninsula.

richmarr 10y ago

> innovation is not one of their "fortes" Downvoting because almost-entirely off-topic, and TBH slightly racist.

Asetsuna 10y ago

LOL, yeah, you are right, things you given "must be" the reasons why innovation is not one of Chinese's "fortes". But the problem is they are innovating, in fact, and making more and more influence in the world. I can not believe you lived in China and know none of those "big" news from Chinese...

varjag 10y ago
OK seriously. What innovation are we talking now, aside of mobile redux of PayPal? They shown the world how to land a rocket stage intact? Perhaps they developed a bunch of new medical treatments that are not actually snake oil? They invented social networks that the rest of the world copied in envy? Introduced touchscreen tech that's actually usable? Honestly I must have missed all the "big" news in soft and hard tech, 'cause another eBay clone is sure as hell ain't big. It feels like rerun of Japan craze from 3 decades back, only without ninjas and shurikens this time.
- Asetsuna 10y ago
  if we talk seriously, the best way is to check all the top computer science conferences where "cutting edge" papers are published rather than nyt news. Yeah, maybe you and I don't want it to be the truth but I guess you can find much more Chinese names as what you expected. And more names next year, I guess.
  - varjag 10y ago
    It also pays to check the universities affiliated in the papers. More often than not they are not Chinese but the usual gang of suspects, even if there's an ethnic Chinese coauthor.
    - Asetsuna 10y ago
      So they can innovate but need to learn how to do it best. And actually in some research directions, they(go back to China) are leading now. It's just the beginning of the innovation explosion from China, I guess. An opponent stronger than japan.

tcper 10y ago

If you have a girl with a Chinese woman outside China when you visit China they can refuse to let the girl go out. China needs girls. Can't understand this, why they refuse the girl out?

chrischen 10y ago

Is there any chance you're an expat living in China? Many expats complain about the internet because theytry to access the foreign internet. Internet within China is actually very speedy. Regarding gender imbalance, this wasa cultural issue. It's a problemin many cultures where male heirs are preferred over female heirs. I'd also lile to point out the Bay Area also has an infamous gender imbalance issue.

idra 10y ago
In the same way that having sex with children is a "cultural issue" [1]. Chinese culture still has many elements that are absolutely barbaric and primitive. The concept of "face" is one of them too. [1] http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-36892963 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-36892963
- robjan 10y ago
  Why is face barbaric and primitive? Please do bear in mind that "they" use HN as well.

mac01021 10y ago

Do you have a citation for that last one? (I'm having a girl with a Chinese woman and we're planning to visit...)

netheril96 10y ago
He's just bullshitting.

Al-Khwarizmi 10y ago

Why is being communist bad for innovation? In 40 years, the Soviet Union went from a medieval-like society with 95% of the people being peasants working their lords' lands, to inventing LEDs, grid-scale nuclear power, orbital launches, artificial satellites, manned space flight, commercial supersonic flight, seminal work in transplantation and artificial organs, etc. It became the second world superpower in science and innovation, which by the way, it no longer isn't after the fall of communism. It was pretty much an economic miracle, like the so-called "German miracle" and "Japanese miracle", although of course most current thinkers won't recognize it because Communism is Bad(tm) and it seems we can only think in black and white (as the Soviet Union had an autochratic and murderous regime, apparently we can't say what they did right). So I don't think the statement that communism is bad for innovation holds water historically. It's bad for other things, but not necessarily for innovation.

seanmcdirmid 10y ago
Maybe the Russians already had it in them and we're just being held back by bad government? You don't just grow a science community in a generation you either (a) steal it (e.g. From Germany) or (b) nurture it over a long time, and the USSR was able to have both. Russia just didn't go from people running around in loin clothes to sending robots into space after the Bolshevik Revolution. There is already a deep scientific culture their before. China even more so. For much of history, China has been the richest country on earth! Not just total, but even per capita! Ya, the late Qing and republic eras were a mess, but that China would prosper after a period of decline has happened before and isn't surprising. Mao's Great Leap Forward and cultural revolution probably hurt more than helped, and China is mostly where it is today inspite of the communists. It's all about the people. Germany and Japan were both developed before they were devestated, and knew collectively how to develop again; it wasn't a miracle in any case. Leading countries tend to lead even when knocked back with setbacks. What is perhaps a miracle was Germany breaking away from its Holy Roman Empire roots in the first place, or Japan modernizing in the mid 19th century (incidentally, this happened at the same time). Once you make that "step", you are likely not to fall backwards.
plandis 10y ago
Correlation doesn't equal causation. I don't think you can say that just because those things happened under communism means that communism is good for innovation. In fact, you could just as well argue that modern day Russia persisteted even despite communism.

Geeshang 10y ago

Totally bullshit! I am Chinese. I have to reply, cause someone here even believe the shit you told. "- There is way less women than men because the Government let people basically kill girls with selective abortion or after being born." Fucking crazy, No Government never do this. "- If you have a girl with a Chinese woman outside China when you visit China they can refuse to let the girl go out. China needs girls." Where you get it, No this will never happen in China "-They are communist, the interest of the individual is always subordinated to the community. " Only the Party's name is communist now in China.

DominikR 10y ago
Pretty strong wording but I definitely have to agree on this sentence: > There is way less women than men because the Government let people basically kill girls with selective abortion or after being born. There is no possible benefit imaginable for any government to encourage the killing of girls. This just doesn't make sense from a Collectivist perspective. I believe that China actually had strong laws that forbid doctors from telling pregnant women which sex their child would have because many Chinese in rural areas would abort female children on their own accord. This was basically because of the one child policy and the fact that Chinese men are supposed to take care of their parents when they get old. So it was more of a result of really bad government policy and self interest of families. But from what I know the one child policy has officially ended in China, so I don't think this will be a big issue in the future.
- selectodude 10y ago
  There's something like 80 million more males than females there. That's a lot of angry disillusioned men to deal with.

chmod775 10y ago

I honestly don't know what you are "refuting" with that. You listed some very generic things that are "wrong" with China, but have nothing to do with the point NYTimes was trying to make. The article was talking about how China is ahead of the west in regards to mobile payment methods, and you try to refute that by saying they have an army of spies and are communist, and also have less women and limited access to websites outside china? I don't get it. If you said: "From living in China for X years I can tell you that it isn't really the case that almost any fruit vendor accepts payment via mobile phone, and it isn't really a common payment method." - That would've been valid criticism addressing the core points of the NYTimes article. As it stands though your comment fits perfectly in the stream of comments trying to downplay the articles credibility without actually addressing it, which is somehow common of any article mentioning "China" and things like "cutting edge" and "innovation" and is making me increasingly suspicious of who is actually spreading propaganda. Edit: And honestly the things you listed are common knowledge by now, and have no place in an article about mobile tech in China. That would be like including a paragraph about Guantanamo bay in every article about Silicon Valley.