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This article has a pretty shallow definition on how China is 'cutting edge' in mobile tech. Apparently cutting edge means: a.) can do things without switching

This article has a pretty shallow definition on how China is 'cutting edge' in mobile tech. Apparently cutting edge means: a.) can do things without switching apps. (?!) b.) uses QR codes (invented by Japan, popularized by Japan) c.) pay things on phone (invented by nokia, popularized in europe) and the dominance confirmed by a.) a single quote from kik founder (who is trying to convince people qr code is...good?) b.) bigger mobile user base (well of course, they have more people) c.) uber lost in china (if you're a foreign company in China and you haven't learned yet Chinese government only lets Chinese companies win, then...)

vadym909 10y ago
/s here's a page to go and apologize for disagreeing with the article http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/20/world/asia/china-apologise-contest.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/20/world/asia/china-apologise...
paradite 10y ago
> a.) can do things without switching apps. (?!) Another term for this is integration. It is not just about not switching apps, it is about ingratiating different features (chat&social&payment&voucher) and providing a natural and consistent experience for users in a single app. You don't see that quite often for SV companies. How innovative is this? I am not sure, but definitely something new and first popularized by Tencent in the era of QQ before 2008. > b.) uses QR codes (invented by Japan, popularized by Japan) Not main point of the article, there are plenty of other innovations in the areas of living streaming and drone technology, but unfortunately you missed them. > c.) pay things on phone (invented by nokia, popularized in europe) Not sure about how Nokia and Europe did it, but in China you can pay movie tickets, utilities, taxi fees, fines, etc in a single app. Maybe Europe was a pioneer in this and I wasn't aware of that.
- jguegant 10y ago
  Check out for swish in Sweden: "According to Arvidsson, the Swedes love Swish so much, it’s already revolutionising the local banking system, with several major banks refusing to accept cash at all, and as of late last year, four out of every five purchases in the country were being made electronically." Payment by phone is already a big thing here.
  - paradite 10y ago
    Thanks for sharing this. In terms of mass adoption of cashless transaction, the timeline in two countries seem to be parallel: http://www.businessinsider.sg/wechat-why-it-dominates-china-2015-8/?r=US&IR=T#fXVqE8vqyI0GlUTL.97 http://www.businessinsider.sg/wechat-why-it-dominates-china-... - AUG. 11, 2015 http://www.sciencealert.com/sweden-is-on-track-to-become-the-world-s-first-cashless-society http://www.sciencealert.com/sweden-is-on-track-to-become-the... - 16 OCT 2015
  - muninn_ 10y ago
    I had never heard of Swish until now. Very interesting. I know there are some differences, but how is it fundamentally different from something like Square? https://squareup.com/ https://squareup.com/ Thank you
    - Bartweiss 10y ago
      Square has a mobile phone payment option, but most of their actual use is as a small-merchant credit card processor. They have no integration into larger stores (which have their own card readers), and as a result there's no real point for users in setting up their mobile pay system. My credit card works with Square and everything else, an app would only work with Square.
    - mongol 10y ago
      Not familiar with Square but Swish started as an app for payment between individuals, such as friends sharing a restaurant bill or payment of used things (think Craigslist etc). People even use it as payment for used cars. It was developed by all major banks in cooperation, so huge network effect from start, uses the well established "mobile bank id" for authorization and is instant and currently free. The instantaneousness means that you feel safe to hand over the keys (in the car sale case) the moment your app beeps to confirm the transfer, which is within a few seconds after the buyer authorized it on his phone. Later a version for merchants was developed.
      - muninn_ 10y ago
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
TeMPOraL 10y ago
> a.) can do things without switching apps. (?!) This actually is "cutting edge" if you compare it to the bullshit we in the West have to deal with daily. I have way too much apps on my Android phone, none of which can talk to each other (despite intents) and half of which should be infrastructure-level anyway. > b.) uses QR codes (invented by Japan, popularized by Japan) ... and almost completely ignored by Europe and the US. That they turned something potentially useful into actually useful is interesting in its own right. > c.) pay things on phone (invented by nokia, popularized in europe) Except it is 2016 and in Europe (and presumably in the US) it only barely works somewhere, sometimes, for some things. I mean, let's not play double standards - if it's entirely fair to call Western companies (especially SV startups) "innovative" for wrapping something common in a Bootstrap theme, or turning something that should be a product into a butt service to extract rent from people, then it's entirely fair to call China "cutting edge".
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  ApplePay is pretty nice, actually. China is great at low infrastructure easy to deploy solutions because it is still kind of a poor country, but the same solutions would never be accepted (or needed) in the west.
- jguegant 10y ago
  I don't know for QR codes, but swish payments (pay things on phone) are very popular in Sweden. I can swish my local fruit seller, the bar tenders and my friends in a matter of seconds. As far as I know Sweden is generally more advanced in this kind of technologies than what I see in Hong-Kong.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- chrischen 10y ago
  QR codes is interesting. The tech companies here considered QR codes low tech and backwards, ironically, and basically didn't invest in it in the hopes of going with BLE (bluetooth low energy) beacons and at a time NFC. NFC was considered inferior to BLE too but BLE has come and literally no one uses them. The reason why QR isn't adopted is because none of the major platforms has invested in it. Apple, facebook, don't have native QR support. In China QR is built into wechat, which everyone has.
tigershark 10y ago
But all the world is following up China with the stupidest idea ever, reinventing a CLI in a chat.. Seriously, we had this interfaces in IRC bots about 20 years ago.. And now it seems the holy grail of technology..
- paradite 10y ago
  Except IRC bots did not succeed and took over the world. I doubt if there is any non-technical people still using IRCs. And in terms of the features, you cannot make payments using IRC bots. Even if IRC bots could theoretically be feature-complete, you can't judge a product by saying "oh we had this feature as well earlier, just that we didn't succeed." Having a feature and having a feature that is successful can be quite different. Microsoft might had the concept of tablet way earlier than Apple but it was Apple that made the success around iPad.
  - tigershark 10y ago
    Having a successful feature doesn't mean that is the best. Apple Pay is far far better than using QR codes to pay. The stupidest gui is much quicker than a CLI on a phone. I hope that all this hype for the oldest interface in the world resurrected will collapse soon.
    - chrischen 10y ago
      Being able to use somethingis considered a feature. Since apple pay is only accepted at walgreens and a handful of places, it's pretty lacking om that feature.
    - paradite 10y ago
      I am sorry but I think there are some misunderstanding here. Are you saying that China is inventing a CLI on a phone? Because that is not true. Just touch and gestures. I agree that "Apple Pay is far far better than using QR codes to pay.", less dependencies is always better.
      - 10y ago
erikb 10y ago
You should probably read it again, focussing on the use cases not just the technical details. The technical details are more the Chinese characteristics than the actual features. Maybe it's hard to understand if you haven't seen it.

vadym909 10y ago

/s here's a page to go and apologize for disagreeing with the article http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/20/world/asia/china-apologise-contest.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/20/world/asia/china-apologise...

paradite 10y ago

> a.) can do things without switching apps. (?!) Another term for this is integration. It is not just about not switching apps, it is about ingratiating different features (chat&social&payment&voucher) and providing a natural and consistent experience for users in a single app. You don't see that quite often for SV companies. How innovative is this? I am not sure, but definitely something new and first popularized by Tencent in the era of QQ before 2008. > b.) uses QR codes (invented by Japan, popularized by Japan) Not main point of the article, there are plenty of other innovations in the areas of living streaming and drone technology, but unfortunately you missed them. > c.) pay things on phone (invented by nokia, popularized in europe) Not sure about how Nokia and Europe did it, but in China you can pay movie tickets, utilities, taxi fees, fines, etc in a single app. Maybe Europe was a pioneer in this and I wasn't aware of that.

jguegant 10y ago
Check out for swish in Sweden: "According to Arvidsson, the Swedes love Swish so much, it’s already revolutionising the local banking system, with several major banks refusing to accept cash at all, and as of late last year, four out of every five purchases in the country were being made electronically." Payment by phone is already a big thing here.
- paradite 10y ago
  Thanks for sharing this. In terms of mass adoption of cashless transaction, the timeline in two countries seem to be parallel: http://www.businessinsider.sg/wechat-why-it-dominates-china-2015-8/?r=US&IR=T#fXVqE8vqyI0GlUTL.97 http://www.businessinsider.sg/wechat-why-it-dominates-china-... - AUG. 11, 2015 http://www.sciencealert.com/sweden-is-on-track-to-become-the-world-s-first-cashless-society http://www.sciencealert.com/sweden-is-on-track-to-become-the... - 16 OCT 2015
- muninn_ 10y ago
  I had never heard of Swish until now. Very interesting. I know there are some differences, but how is it fundamentally different from something like Square? https://squareup.com/ https://squareup.com/ Thank you
  - Bartweiss 10y ago
    Square has a mobile phone payment option, but most of their actual use is as a small-merchant credit card processor. They have no integration into larger stores (which have their own card readers), and as a result there's no real point for users in setting up their mobile pay system. My credit card works with Square and everything else, an app would only work with Square.
  - mongol 10y ago
    Not familiar with Square but Swish started as an app for payment between individuals, such as friends sharing a restaurant bill or payment of used things (think Craigslist etc). People even use it as payment for used cars. It was developed by all major banks in cooperation, so huge network effect from start, uses the well established "mobile bank id" for authorization and is instant and currently free. The instantaneousness means that you feel safe to hand over the keys (in the car sale case) the moment your app beeps to confirm the transfer, which is within a few seconds after the buyer authorized it on his phone. Later a version for merchants was developed.
    - muninn_ 10y ago
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

TeMPOraL 10y ago

> a.) can do things without switching apps. (?!) This actually is "cutting edge" if you compare it to the bullshit we in the West have to deal with daily. I have way too much apps on my Android phone, none of which can talk to each other (despite intents) and half of which should be infrastructure-level anyway. > b.) uses QR codes (invented by Japan, popularized by Japan) ... and almost completely ignored by Europe and the US. That they turned something potentially useful into actually useful is interesting in its own right. > c.) pay things on phone (invented by nokia, popularized in europe) Except it is 2016 and in Europe (and presumably in the US) it only barely works somewhere, sometimes, for some things. I mean, let's not play double standards - if it's entirely fair to call Western companies (especially SV startups) "innovative" for wrapping something common in a Bootstrap theme, or turning something that should be a product into a butt service to extract rent from people, then it's entirely fair to call China "cutting edge".

seanmcdirmid 10y ago
ApplePay is pretty nice, actually. China is great at low infrastructure easy to deploy solutions because it is still kind of a poor country, but the same solutions would never be accepted (or needed) in the west.
jguegant 10y ago
I don't know for QR codes, but swish payments (pay things on phone) are very popular in Sweden. I can swish my local fruit seller, the bar tenders and my friends in a matter of seconds. As far as I know Sweden is generally more advanced in this kind of technologies than what I see in Hong-Kong.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
chrischen 10y ago
QR codes is interesting. The tech companies here considered QR codes low tech and backwards, ironically, and basically didn't invest in it in the hopes of going with BLE (bluetooth low energy) beacons and at a time NFC. NFC was considered inferior to BLE too but BLE has come and literally no one uses them. The reason why QR isn't adopted is because none of the major platforms has invested in it. Apple, facebook, don't have native QR support. In China QR is built into wechat, which everyone has.

tigershark 10y ago

But all the world is following up China with the stupidest idea ever, reinventing a CLI in a chat.. Seriously, we had this interfaces in IRC bots about 20 years ago.. And now it seems the holy grail of technology..

paradite 10y ago
Except IRC bots did not succeed and took over the world. I doubt if there is any non-technical people still using IRCs. And in terms of the features, you cannot make payments using IRC bots. Even if IRC bots could theoretically be feature-complete, you can't judge a product by saying "oh we had this feature as well earlier, just that we didn't succeed." Having a feature and having a feature that is successful can be quite different. Microsoft might had the concept of tablet way earlier than Apple but it was Apple that made the success around iPad.
- tigershark 10y ago
  Having a successful feature doesn't mean that is the best. Apple Pay is far far better than using QR codes to pay. The stupidest gui is much quicker than a CLI on a phone. I hope that all this hype for the oldest interface in the world resurrected will collapse soon.
  - chrischen 10y ago
    Being able to use somethingis considered a feature. Since apple pay is only accepted at walgreens and a handful of places, it's pretty lacking om that feature.
  - paradite 10y ago
    I am sorry but I think there are some misunderstanding here. Are you saying that China is inventing a CLI on a phone? Because that is not true. Just touch and gestures. I agree that "Apple Pay is far far better than using QR codes to pay.", less dependencies is always better.
    - 10y ago

erikb 10y ago

You should probably read it again, focussing on the use cases not just the technical details. The technical details are more the Chinese characteristics than the actual features. Maybe it's hard to understand if you haven't seen it.