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But Lyft is stuck in Uber’s shadow. I asked one venture capitalist what he thought of Lyft. He put his thumb and index finger into an L shape, brought his hand

But Lyft is stuck in Uber’s shadow. I asked one venture capitalist what he thought of Lyft. He put his thumb and index finger into an L shape, brought his hand to his forehead and mouthed “loser”. I don't get this obsession with market share. Is Apple a loser? Is Pepsi a loser?

FussyZeus 10y ago
I think tech is unique in that once a given company attains enough market share it typically is then around and stable for a very long time, deservedly so or not. Citation Microsoft, which through aggressive business tactics became (and continues to be) pseudonymous with personal computing. Apple isn't a loser anymore but that's because they found a new market in handheld devices, I'd argue in terms of the PC battle, despite how good a Mac is (I'm writing this on one) I'd say they've still firmly lost in this market. But just because you're a loser in the market doesn't mean you lose at everything. Still plenty of money to be made even if you can't make all of the money forever, which seems to be how a lot of VC's define success.
- spiderfarmer 10y ago
  I'd argue in terms of the PC battle, despite how good a Mac is (I'm writing this on one) I'd say they've still firmly lost in this market. "Measured as sales through the U.S. consumer retail channel, Macs reached rather shocking milestone during first half 2015, according to data that NPD provided to me today. Yes, you can consider this a first, and from lower volume shipments. By operating system: OS X, 49.7 percent; Windows, 48.3 percent; Chrome OS, 1.9 percent. That compares to the same time period in 2014: OS X, 44.8 percent; Windows, 53.1 percent; Chrome OS, 2.1 percent. So there is no confusion, the data is for U.S. consumer laptops." http://betanews.com/2015/08/12/yikes-apple-laptop-revenue-share-exceeds-windows-pcs/ http://betanews.com/2015/08/12/yikes-apple-laptop-revenue-sh... I'd say market share is less important than revenue share, but Apple considered the loser in this market? I still don't get why market share is getting all the attention.
  - FussyZeus 10y ago
    IMHO that would be due more to Microsoft completely screwing their relationship with a ton of users than Apple doing anything particular. Not that it invalidates anything you've said, a win is a win. Anyway just because a company has won hard and won hard for awhile that doesn't particularly shield them from losing later on, however I'd say my point stands, from roughly 1992 to 2014 Microsoft dominated the PC market.
  - wmil 10y ago
    Apple has been dominant in the non-budget laptop category for a while. PCs still control the corporate market, but that isn't growing like it used to.
bluedino 10y ago
It hasn't nothing to do with marketshare. Uber is eponymous with ride sharing. You don't hear Lyft mention in the media, etc.
- spiderfarmer 10y ago
  To me it's eponymous with protests and lawsuits, because of the media.
  - JonnieCache 10y ago
    You/bluedino mean "synonymous".
    - spiderfarmer 10y ago
      Thanks!
- matwood 10y ago
  Which does not seem to have hurt Lyft much. My non-tech friends say things like "I'll Uber there", and then they open the Lyft app. Probably not the best situation for Lyft, but they are not unknowns or anything.
  - NoGravitas 10y ago
    "Is Pepsi okay?"
    - tcfunk 10y ago
      Thing is, not even Pepsi cares if Pepsi is ok (I know that's not what you meant). They were relevant long enough to buy a bunch of other brands that are most certainly sticking around for a long time. http://www.pepsico.com/Brands/ http://www.pepsico.com/Brands/
  - gmarx 10y ago
    There is a danger Uber could lose the rights to its own name if it becomes the common term for this in the language. It's happened before. Its why Kleenex makes such a big deal about being a "facial tissue" and Q-tips refer to themselves prominently as "cotton swabs"
_pmf_ 10y ago
> I asked one venture capitalist what he thought of Lyft. He put his thumb and index finger into an L shape, brought his hand to his forehead and mouthed “loser”. Is this some kind of satire? Do people who have left their fraternity some years ago actually talk that way?
- JonnieCache 10y ago
  Right? That can't be real. God help us.
- bitwize 10y ago
  Have VCs actually left their fraternity?
- gglitch 10y ago
  Right? As usual, quality reporting from the Economist. Fun detail.
jondubois 10y ago
At this stage, both Lyft and and Uber are losers in my view. They haven't proved anything on the market yet. They are money-churning machines - Investors put money in and a smaller amount of money comes out - Anyone can do that. These companies have been so well-funded since the beginning that they never operated in a 'real economic environment' - There is no way of telling what will happen when the investor money dries up.
- grosbisou 10y ago
  This is my view as well. Very curious to see what will happens when Uber stop financing the customers rides. Will they ever be able to make money? Plus so far all their side projects using the technology (uber eat, delivery, etc) look like failures.
  - aianus 10y ago
    Taxis are over twice as expensive as Uber where I live so it's no competition. They would easily win with or without subsidies.
    - brokenmachine 10y ago
      You're in Australia as well? Taxis here are such a joke. The taxi drivers that I have been with seem to take so little pride in their driving/presentation/customer service, and they are exploitatively expensive. The bar is very low to provide a better service.
dmbaggett 10y ago
It's a shame the Economist didn't name the VC and the firm so founders could collectively ensure nobody ever works with this person. Just when I think I've heard the most tone deaf and arrogant thing possible out of a venture capitalist's mouth, the high water mark rises. Hopefully this person will repeat said gesture in the mirror -- it's entirely apt.

FussyZeus 10y ago

I think tech is unique in that once a given company attains enough market share it typically is then around and stable for a very long time, deservedly so or not. Citation Microsoft, which through aggressive business tactics became (and continues to be) pseudonymous with personal computing. Apple isn't a loser anymore but that's because they found a new market in handheld devices, I'd argue in terms of the PC battle, despite how good a Mac is (I'm writing this on one) I'd say they've still firmly lost in this market. But just because you're a loser in the market doesn't mean you lose at everything. Still plenty of money to be made even if you can't make all of the money forever, which seems to be how a lot of VC's define success.

spiderfarmer 10y ago
I'd argue in terms of the PC battle, despite how good a Mac is (I'm writing this on one) I'd say they've still firmly lost in this market. "Measured as sales through the U.S. consumer retail channel, Macs reached rather shocking milestone during first half 2015, according to data that NPD provided to me today. Yes, you can consider this a first, and from lower volume shipments. By operating system: OS X, 49.7 percent; Windows, 48.3 percent; Chrome OS, 1.9 percent. That compares to the same time period in 2014: OS X, 44.8 percent; Windows, 53.1 percent; Chrome OS, 2.1 percent. So there is no confusion, the data is for U.S. consumer laptops." http://betanews.com/2015/08/12/yikes-apple-laptop-revenue-share-exceeds-windows-pcs/ http://betanews.com/2015/08/12/yikes-apple-laptop-revenue-sh... I'd say market share is less important than revenue share, but Apple considered the loser in this market? I still don't get why market share is getting all the attention.
- FussyZeus 10y ago
  IMHO that would be due more to Microsoft completely screwing their relationship with a ton of users than Apple doing anything particular. Not that it invalidates anything you've said, a win is a win. Anyway just because a company has won hard and won hard for awhile that doesn't particularly shield them from losing later on, however I'd say my point stands, from roughly 1992 to 2014 Microsoft dominated the PC market.
- wmil 10y ago
  Apple has been dominant in the non-budget laptop category for a while. PCs still control the corporate market, but that isn't growing like it used to.

bluedino 10y ago

It hasn't nothing to do with marketshare. Uber is eponymous with ride sharing. You don't hear Lyft mention in the media, etc.

spiderfarmer 10y ago
To me it's eponymous with protests and lawsuits, because of the media.
- JonnieCache 10y ago
  You/bluedino mean "synonymous".
  - spiderfarmer 10y ago
    Thanks!
matwood 10y ago
Which does not seem to have hurt Lyft much. My non-tech friends say things like "I'll Uber there", and then they open the Lyft app. Probably not the best situation for Lyft, but they are not unknowns or anything.
- NoGravitas 10y ago
  "Is Pepsi okay?"
  - tcfunk 10y ago
    Thing is, not even Pepsi cares if Pepsi is ok (I know that's not what you meant). They were relevant long enough to buy a bunch of other brands that are most certainly sticking around for a long time. http://www.pepsico.com/Brands/ http://www.pepsico.com/Brands/
- gmarx 10y ago
  There is a danger Uber could lose the rights to its own name if it becomes the common term for this in the language. It's happened before. Its why Kleenex makes such a big deal about being a "facial tissue" and Q-tips refer to themselves prominently as "cotton swabs"

_pmf_ 10y ago

> I asked one venture capitalist what he thought of Lyft. He put his thumb and index finger into an L shape, brought his hand to his forehead and mouthed “loser”. Is this some kind of satire? Do people who have left their fraternity some years ago actually talk that way?

JonnieCache 10y ago
Right? That can't be real. God help us.
bitwize 10y ago
Have VCs actually left their fraternity?
gglitch 10y ago
Right? As usual, quality reporting from the Economist. Fun detail.

jondubois 10y ago

At this stage, both Lyft and and Uber are losers in my view. They haven't proved anything on the market yet. They are money-churning machines - Investors put money in and a smaller amount of money comes out - Anyone can do that. These companies have been so well-funded since the beginning that they never operated in a 'real economic environment' - There is no way of telling what will happen when the investor money dries up.

grosbisou 10y ago
This is my view as well. Very curious to see what will happens when Uber stop financing the customers rides. Will they ever be able to make money? Plus so far all their side projects using the technology (uber eat, delivery, etc) look like failures.
- aianus 10y ago
  Taxis are over twice as expensive as Uber where I live so it's no competition. They would easily win with or without subsidies.
  - brokenmachine 10y ago
    You're in Australia as well? Taxis here are such a joke. The taxi drivers that I have been with seem to take so little pride in their driving/presentation/customer service, and they are exploitatively expensive. The bar is very low to provide a better service.

dmbaggett 10y ago

It's a shame the Economist didn't name the VC and the firm so founders could collectively ensure nobody ever works with this person. Just when I think I've heard the most tone deaf and arrogant thing possible out of a venture capitalist's mouth, the high water mark rises. Hopefully this person will repeat said gesture in the mirror -- it's entirely apt.