5 ms·

I have to admit that when she started in Yahoo, they tried to do their best to not suck that much, but I think it was too late. In a time where internet and wor

I have to admit that when she started in Yahoo, they tried to do their best to not suck that much, but I think it was too late. In a time where internet and word of mouth can punish very hard bad PR/bad UX, they tried with Tumblr showing they weren't going to screw up anymore, but still they couldn't go back to what they were before.

soperj 10y ago
and yet, Craigslist.
- mgkimsal 10y ago
  do you mean the UX on craigslist is bad? i find it to be fantastic. could be better on mobile screens, i'll grant, but it all still works, and is fast enough for what I need.
burkaman 10y ago
Yeah, Marissa Mayer is how I was first introduced to the concept of the glass cliff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_cliff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_cliff. I don't think she ever had a chance.
- jazzyk 10y ago
  She was consoled with ~$200M for not having had a chance.
- seanalltogether 10y ago
  This explains the seemingly easy path Theresa May had to becoming Prime Minister following the Brexit vote.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - burkaman 10y ago
    It's definitely a reasonable explanation. Her only real opponent was a woman as well.
    - twblalock 10y ago
      Mainly because her potential male opponents stabbed each other in the back until they were no longer viable.
- Bartweiss 10y ago
  This seems like a funny place to cite that concept. The studies identifying it find it in roles like lead counsel or political candidate (which, at a glance, are both limited initiatives with well-defined success conditions). Meanwhile it specifically wasn't found for turnaround CEOs: "A 2007 study of corporate performance preceding CEO appointments showed that women executives are no more likely to be selected for precarious leadership positions than males." Mayer was publicly linked to this phenomenon, but the studies and proposed explanations don't seem consistent with hiring a CEO for an obvious turnaround role and massively compensating them for it.
  - burkaman 10y ago
    I think the evidence is sort of mixed. Here's an article responding to the study that quote came from: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S104898431500123X http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1048984315... As for explanations that could explain this particular case: Men are more likely to get another chance at a CEO job, so they can afford to turn down a crisis position. When an organization is in crisis, they are likely to look for a candidate as different as possible from the CEO that caused that crisis, and hiring a woman tends to send a very visible signal that the organization is going in a different direction, even if that's sort of a sexist assumption. I think there are more likely explanations than the directly sexist idea of "male board members don't respect women and use them as scapegoats".
    - Bartweiss 10y ago
      Thanks, this is a good summary. I suspect there's probably something to the phenomenon (even in terms of turnaround CEOs), although I'm immensely skeptical of the people who explain this with "women are seen as caring and sensitive so they get positions where morale is bad". That narrative seems like a terrible way to explain many of the other outcomes, like preferring women for hotly-contested political races. I'm also hesitant about the "afford to turn down a crisis" narrative - certainly it could apply in many cases, but turnaround CEO for Yahoo isn't a job people were running from. Taking or rejecting it was hardly the kiss of death: saying no looks sensible, saying yes either makes your name forever or gets an "at least you tried". (Does anyone think this exit is going to actually harm Mayer's employability?) And indeed a bunch of men also took the role and failed, arguably much worse than Mayer. I do think the signaling thing is quite true. If things have been going to hell, appointing a radically different CEO shows new direction, and an appointment like Mayer is a great way to produce news stories about your new direction (with big pictures of her in them - it might be a sexist assumption but it's also a very media-friendly one). There's also a claim that it's a way for something like Yahoo to signal "See, we aren't outdated and stuffy! We did an appointment you'd never see at a boring old bank!" Rambling aside, none of the studies really sold me in either direction (replication crisis and all that) but I can see a lot of reasons this could happen in places where business as usual hasn't been working.
matwood 10y ago
I agree it was too late. Yahoo missed search 15ish years ago, and then missed social 10ish years ago. The writing was the on the wall without a cash cow to fall back on, a la Microsoft.

soperj 10y ago

and yet, Craigslist.

mgkimsal 10y ago
do you mean the UX on craigslist is bad? i find it to be fantastic. could be better on mobile screens, i'll grant, but it all still works, and is fast enough for what I need.

burkaman 10y ago

Yeah, Marissa Mayer is how I was first introduced to the concept of the glass cliff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_cliff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_cliff. I don't think she ever had a chance.

jazzyk 10y ago
She was consoled with ~$200M for not having had a chance.
seanalltogether 10y ago
This explains the seemingly easy path Theresa May had to becoming Prime Minister following the Brexit vote.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- burkaman 10y ago
  It's definitely a reasonable explanation. Her only real opponent was a woman as well.
  - twblalock 10y ago
    Mainly because her potential male opponents stabbed each other in the back until they were no longer viable.
Bartweiss 10y ago
This seems like a funny place to cite that concept. The studies identifying it find it in roles like lead counsel or political candidate (which, at a glance, are both limited initiatives with well-defined success conditions). Meanwhile it specifically wasn't found for turnaround CEOs: "A 2007 study of corporate performance preceding CEO appointments showed that women executives are no more likely to be selected for precarious leadership positions than males." Mayer was publicly linked to this phenomenon, but the studies and proposed explanations don't seem consistent with hiring a CEO for an obvious turnaround role and massively compensating them for it.
- burkaman 10y ago
  I think the evidence is sort of mixed. Here's an article responding to the study that quote came from: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S104898431500123X http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1048984315... As for explanations that could explain this particular case: Men are more likely to get another chance at a CEO job, so they can afford to turn down a crisis position. When an organization is in crisis, they are likely to look for a candidate as different as possible from the CEO that caused that crisis, and hiring a woman tends to send a very visible signal that the organization is going in a different direction, even if that's sort of a sexist assumption. I think there are more likely explanations than the directly sexist idea of "male board members don't respect women and use them as scapegoats".
  - Bartweiss 10y ago
    Thanks, this is a good summary. I suspect there's probably something to the phenomenon (even in terms of turnaround CEOs), although I'm immensely skeptical of the people who explain this with "women are seen as caring and sensitive so they get positions where morale is bad". That narrative seems like a terrible way to explain many of the other outcomes, like preferring women for hotly-contested political races. I'm also hesitant about the "afford to turn down a crisis" narrative - certainly it could apply in many cases, but turnaround CEO for Yahoo isn't a job people were running from. Taking or rejecting it was hardly the kiss of death: saying no looks sensible, saying yes either makes your name forever or gets an "at least you tried". (Does anyone think this exit is going to actually harm Mayer's employability?) And indeed a bunch of men also took the role and failed, arguably much worse than Mayer. I do think the signaling thing is quite true. If things have been going to hell, appointing a radically different CEO shows new direction, and an appointment like Mayer is a great way to produce news stories about your new direction (with big pictures of her in them - it might be a sexist assumption but it's also a very media-friendly one). There's also a claim that it's a way for something like Yahoo to signal "See, we aren't outdated and stuffy! We did an appointment you'd never see at a boring old bank!" Rambling aside, none of the studies really sold me in either direction (replication crisis and all that) but I can see a lot of reasons this could happen in places where business as usual hasn't been working.

matwood 10y ago

I agree it was too late. Yahoo missed search 15ish years ago, and then missed social 10ish years ago. The writing was the on the wall without a cash cow to fall back on, a la Microsoft.