4 ms·

A couple of things that stood out. 1) I'd imagine stock options are part of the job, but I don't see that anywhere. Do new employee's get stock options? I'm g

A couple of things that stood out. 1) I'd imagine stock options are part of the job, but I don't see that anywhere. Do new employee's get stock options? I'm guessing they keep this hidden as it allows them a bit more flexibility on offering signing bonuses to entice employee's they want to hire? 2) I don't see any section for bonus on the calculator. Do stackoverflow employee's not get bonuses? 3) Why are years of experience factored in at all? Shouldn't ability matter more? I mean you seem to get a different salary if you have 15 vs 16 years of experience. This just seems very arbitrary. Wouldn't a more granular bucket be better? As to transparent salaries... I've worked at two firms for the past 10 years and both have complete salary transparency. The sky hasn't fallen, and I don't hear very much complaining, though there still is some complaining, the upside of the complaining is that its over actual salary numbers rather than guessing numbers. We allow people to pick from a couple of buckets of salary and bonus multipliers. You can chose a lower salary and get a bigger bump on your bonus vs a large salary and a lower multiplier on your bonus. This lets risk adverse people get more upfront and leave a bit of the upside on the table and people with a higher risk tolerance to bet on themselves a bit more. Has anyone actually gone with salary transparency and seen a downside?

mathattack 10y ago
On 3: I suspect that it's hard to get too precise on the A+++ to B grading scale. It's an imperfect measure and there's already plenty of disagreement between 4, let alone going to 10. You can fix some of the bias by using other measures that may correlate to the grade, but also provide some other guidance. Years of experience is one of them. You'll see that grade has a much higher impact than years of experience, so it's just modifying the total on the margin. I haven't worked at a company with total transparency, at least not at the worker bee level. I have worked at partnerships where all the partners knew what each other made, and it was generally heavily weighted towards seniority. The system seemed to work better than I would have expected. My experience in "secret" systems is any time two people compare salary, one gets very pissed off. This is why I keep my comp private.
benjaminhodgson 10y ago
I saw a documentary a few years ago about Pimlico Plumbers, a large plumbing firm near where I live in London, who went transparent and revealed all the employees' salaries to their colleagues. It was interesting because salary transparency was not part of the company culture all along; it was an experiment in changing the status quo of an already-large workforce. It did not go entirely smoothly: there was significant anger and resentment in the workforce at first, but eventually things smoothed over and (as I recall) everyone ended up more-or-less happy. I dug out a review of the doc, if you're interested: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/9393303/Show-Me-Your-Money-Channel-4-review.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/9393303/Show-M...
Gmo 10y ago
My company has transparent salaries since the beginning 14 years ago. Funnily, in the words of one of the co-founders, it's more a mere accident than a clear will from the beginning : "we did not really plan it that way, but back then, it was easier to let the document listing the salaries open for everyone than restricting its access to a few persons" and they decided to keep it that way ever since :) We always ask a new recruit which salary he/she wants publicly (by that I mean in front of a not insignificant part of the company, we are 50) and show them salaries of other people in case it does not really fit. We are also experimenting with allowing people to choose their salary after 3 years in the company (there's a process and some caveats of course). And we did not really see any downside so far
- zaroth 10y ago
  Truly an interesting approach, thanks for sharing. I think the "choose your own salary" in particular is fascinating because with the right culture and the right people, in theory it works exactly as you would hope -- those that are highly driven and want to work epically hard will set their salary and their expectations accordingly. Someone who is looking for more work-life balance might set the bar somewhat lower. As long as there's a feedback cycle which takes salary level as an significant input, it might actually work for a small company. Yadda yadda, plus or minus the Dunning–Kruger effect.
- dimino 10y ago
  > We are also experimenting with allowing people to choose their salary after 3 years in the company (there's a process and some caveats of course). Why wouldn't everyone ask for the maximum amount your company is willing to give? I don't really care if Mark from billing is getting paid 1/3rd of what I'm asking for, what I care about is if you'll give it to me...
  - brianwawok 10y ago
    Hey I know who is coming in Saturday to fix the prod bug, the guy that picked 500k salary ;) Although maybe for some people they would want the extra work for extra money and it could be a win win.
mpermar 10y ago
As per the experience, I think it makes sense, both for real life and role playing games :)
overcast 10y ago
You should never calculate stock options, or bonuses into your base salary, ever. I don't care what anyone says. Bonuses, and stocks are exactly that. Bonuses and stocks. They are great when they are way up, and shitty when they are way down. For the first time in fifteen years, I didn't get a bonus, and the stock price is way down. Never, ever, let someone hiring you convince you otherwise. They tried this when I got hired, and I held out, until my base pay was something reasonable.
- _nalply 10y ago
  I disagree. While it might be difficult to calculate the value of stock options and bonuses, they are part of your compensation for working at the company. If the company gives you a car for free use, it's also a compensation. At least the tax office in the country I live taxes the car as a part of an income.
  - overcast 10y ago
    Well I don't agree with you. A car is a bit different story, since it has an immediate impact on your compensation. You no longer are paying for a car/gas the entire time you're employed. Granted, that could also disappear one day. Stocks and bonuses need to vest, and there is no guarantee they will ever show up.
  - jsmeaton 10y ago
    What is your bonus going to be next year? How much are you going to spend operating a car next year?
- dpark 10y ago
  I would agree about stock options. They're so risky as to generally be almost worthless. I don't agree about bonuses. Bonuses aren't guaranteed, but at well-established companies with healthy rewards cultures, there will be a target amount you can expect if you do your job. You should still discount bonus somewhat when comparing offers, but I would not discount it to zero.
  - 10y ago
ryanSrich 10y ago
This is a salary calculator, not a compensation calculator. Bonuses and options are not part of an employees salary. I imagine years of experience is measured as some value beyond skill. Knowing when to do and not do certain things seems like it would fall under experience, and not necessarily skill.
sklivvz1971 10y ago
Stack employee here: 1) yes we have stock options, and no, they are not documented. 2) we have no bonus 3) years of experience are factored in because they bring value which is not expressed elsewhere and because they reflect market value.
jaegerpicker 10y ago
I'd argue that experience should be a prime factor in salary. Ability is also a key component but not a substitute for hard won experience. Of course not all experience is equal but four things to be gained with experience that ability can not sub for: 1. Pattern matching on ways and processes to solve problems, otherwise known as the "been there, done that" effect. Seeing something that is the same or very similar to something that you have already done allows you numerous ways to improve upon it. 2. Greater depth of tools in the toolbag. May not be true of all experience but for a lot of people, the longer you have worked in the industry the more likely it is that you have stored process and approaches that you know work. This always more time to focus on the truly new and novel parts of the problem at hand. 3. Higher levels of respect from other team members. Again depends on the person in question but it's easier to speak authoritively on a subject when you have experience in that subject. 4. Record of dedication. If you have been the industry for 18 years it's pretty clear that this is your passion and you are likely in it for the long haul.

mathattack 10y ago

On 3: I suspect that it's hard to get too precise on the A+++ to B grading scale. It's an imperfect measure and there's already plenty of disagreement between 4, let alone going to 10. You can fix some of the bias by using other measures that may correlate to the grade, but also provide some other guidance. Years of experience is one of them. You'll see that grade has a much higher impact than years of experience, so it's just modifying the total on the margin. I haven't worked at a company with total transparency, at least not at the worker bee level. I have worked at partnerships where all the partners knew what each other made, and it was generally heavily weighted towards seniority. The system seemed to work better than I would have expected. My experience in "secret" systems is any time two people compare salary, one gets very pissed off. This is why I keep my comp private.

benjaminhodgson 10y ago

I saw a documentary a few years ago about Pimlico Plumbers, a large plumbing firm near where I live in London, who went transparent and revealed all the employees' salaries to their colleagues. It was interesting because salary transparency was not part of the company culture all along; it was an experiment in changing the status quo of an already-large workforce. It did not go entirely smoothly: there was significant anger and resentment in the workforce at first, but eventually things smoothed over and (as I recall) everyone ended up more-or-less happy. I dug out a review of the doc, if you're interested: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/9393303/Show-Me-Your-Money-Channel-4-review.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/9393303/Show-M...

Gmo 10y ago

My company has transparent salaries since the beginning 14 years ago. Funnily, in the words of one of the co-founders, it's more a mere accident than a clear will from the beginning : "we did not really plan it that way, but back then, it was easier to let the document listing the salaries open for everyone than restricting its access to a few persons" and they decided to keep it that way ever since :) We always ask a new recruit which salary he/she wants publicly (by that I mean in front of a not insignificant part of the company, we are 50) and show them salaries of other people in case it does not really fit. We are also experimenting with allowing people to choose their salary after 3 years in the company (there's a process and some caveats of course). And we did not really see any downside so far

zaroth 10y ago
Truly an interesting approach, thanks for sharing. I think the "choose your own salary" in particular is fascinating because with the right culture and the right people, in theory it works exactly as you would hope -- those that are highly driven and want to work epically hard will set their salary and their expectations accordingly. Someone who is looking for more work-life balance might set the bar somewhat lower. As long as there's a feedback cycle which takes salary level as an significant input, it might actually work for a small company. Yadda yadda, plus or minus the Dunning–Kruger effect.
dimino 10y ago
> We are also experimenting with allowing people to choose their salary after 3 years in the company (there's a process and some caveats of course). Why wouldn't everyone ask for the maximum amount your company is willing to give? I don't really care if Mark from billing is getting paid 1/3rd of what I'm asking for, what I care about is if you'll give it to me...
- brianwawok 10y ago
  Hey I know who is coming in Saturday to fix the prod bug, the guy that picked 500k salary ;) Although maybe for some people they would want the extra work for extra money and it could be a win win.

mpermar 10y ago

As per the experience, I think it makes sense, both for real life and role playing games :)

overcast 10y ago

You should never calculate stock options, or bonuses into your base salary, ever. I don't care what anyone says. Bonuses, and stocks are exactly that. Bonuses and stocks. They are great when they are way up, and shitty when they are way down. For the first time in fifteen years, I didn't get a bonus, and the stock price is way down. Never, ever, let someone hiring you convince you otherwise. They tried this when I got hired, and I held out, until my base pay was something reasonable.

_nalply 10y ago
I disagree. While it might be difficult to calculate the value of stock options and bonuses, they are part of your compensation for working at the company. If the company gives you a car for free use, it's also a compensation. At least the tax office in the country I live taxes the car as a part of an income.
- overcast 10y ago
  Well I don't agree with you. A car is a bit different story, since it has an immediate impact on your compensation. You no longer are paying for a car/gas the entire time you're employed. Granted, that could also disappear one day. Stocks and bonuses need to vest, and there is no guarantee they will ever show up.
- jsmeaton 10y ago
  What is your bonus going to be next year? How much are you going to spend operating a car next year?
dpark 10y ago
I would agree about stock options. They're so risky as to generally be almost worthless. I don't agree about bonuses. Bonuses aren't guaranteed, but at well-established companies with healthy rewards cultures, there will be a target amount you can expect if you do your job. You should still discount bonus somewhat when comparing offers, but I would not discount it to zero.
- 10y ago

ryanSrich 10y ago

This is a salary calculator, not a compensation calculator. Bonuses and options are not part of an employees salary. I imagine years of experience is measured as some value beyond skill. Knowing when to do and not do certain things seems like it would fall under experience, and not necessarily skill.

sklivvz1971 10y ago

Stack employee here: 1) yes we have stock options, and no, they are not documented. 2) we have no bonus 3) years of experience are factored in because they bring value which is not expressed elsewhere and because they reflect market value.

jaegerpicker 10y ago

I'd argue that experience should be a prime factor in salary. Ability is also a key component but not a substitute for hard won experience. Of course not all experience is equal but four things to be gained with experience that ability can not sub for: 1. Pattern matching on ways and processes to solve problems, otherwise known as the "been there, done that" effect. Seeing something that is the same or very similar to something that you have already done allows you numerous ways to improve upon it. 2. Greater depth of tools in the toolbag. May not be true of all experience but for a lot of people, the longer you have worked in the industry the more likely it is that you have stored process and approaches that you know work. This always more time to focus on the truly new and novel parts of the problem at hand. 3. Higher levels of respect from other team members. Again depends on the person in question but it's easier to speak authoritively on a subject when you have experience in that subject. 4. Record of dedication. If you have been the industry for 18 years it's pretty clear that this is your passion and you are likely in it for the long haul.