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As a single, insignificant data point: I just bought my first Windows laptop after 2008. I kept waiting for Apple to release Skylake professional machines. Just

• paulcole 10y ago
  > It has forgotten about its power users. Oh, they haven't forgotten. Since the introduction of the multicolor iMac, Apple has been moving steadily towards a line of luxury-ish mass market products. Updates and refreshes in Apple's lines of high-performance "computers" will only continue to become fewer and further between. Edit: Why down vote this?
  • niels_olson 10y ago
    Ya just don't buy a Mac every two years. It's been so effective for so long, that it's too painful to replace, even if it's far easier to replace than a Windows box.
  • salgernon 10y ago
    >> Since the introduction of the multicolor iMac, Apple has >> been moving steadily towards a line of luxury-ish mass market products. That would've been twenty years ago. The only "interesting" boxes that appeared before then were the Mac II NuBus machines, and even then because there was no alternative. History at that time moved very slowly - it allowed for an Apple II class machine to be sold into the 1990s; after that, the benefit of a tightly designed custom motherboard and software combination trailed dramatically against the cost of supporting software. Sure, a DayStar 40MHz accelerator card was the bees knees at only only like $1,040, but it didn't do anything even remotely like moving the software forward like the (2004) intel transition. (And compatibility was severely lacking from third parties for third party pro options.) (Please do note though, I <3 m68k. I wish the world had taken another track - but I don't think i'd have been significantly better off.)
• allsystemsgo 10y ago
  > I think Apple has lost its way. It has forgotten about its power users. I think they are trying to be a luxury brand now How is that losing their way? They're targeting a way more profitable and way larger market.
  • twblalock 10y ago
    Judging by many of the comments I see here, especially in threads about products that do target power users, power users are so difficult to please that targeting them is probably a waste of time and money.
    • dilemma 10y ago
      That's the quarter capitalist point of view. The brand adoption cycle goes from Professional -> Prosumer -> Consumer. If you lose the pro market you lose brand equity that makes you a premium brand. Then, you eventually lose the consumer market and start cutting costs and prices to keep up.
      • twblalock 10y ago
        I don't believe that for a second. There are many successful companies that only target only one or two of those market segments. Besides, Apple's products have traditionally attracted consumers and prosumers before professionals, e.g. the Mac, the iPod, the iPhone... You've got the cycle wrong anyway. From Rogers' Diffusion of Innovations, it is traditionally: Innovators, Early Adopters, Early Majority, Late Majority, Laggards. These are categories of people who have varying enthusiasm about trying new technology. They are not segmented into professionals and non-professionals. The first category includes all kinds of people, including consumers who want the latest and greatest iPhone for media consumption and playing Pokemon.
      • astrodust 10y ago
        That's how it works for markets but not individual products. Cellular phones started with professionals, then prosumer, then consumer. The iPhone followed that track only because the market was significant in all areas, but it's worth noting they don't really have a "pro" phone. Likewise, a lot of their pro gear is really expensive to engineer and the sales are thin. They'd rather make prosumer and consumer gear that they can crank out in volume. Can't blame them, really. The entire PC market is imploding, so it's a lost cause to try and carve out new market share when everything's going to hell.
• hyperbovine 10y ago
  You did not write anything about the actual user experience, which is telling. Is the mere fact that there exist machines which will boot into a non Apple OS supposed to spell doom for them or something? I just used my first Windows machine in almost ten years as well and... guess what it still sucks. Particularly if you are trying to develop software.
  • matwood 10y ago
    Yeah, every time I boot to Windows to test something on IE I'm reminded why I left Windows. It's a shame because the Surface tablets look nice.
    • freehunter 10y ago
      I usually roll my eyes at all the hate people always find for Microsoft in nearly every decision they make and every thing they release into the market. I upgraded my gaming desktop to Windows 8 the day it came out, and I upgraded to Windows 10 when it came out. I've never really had too many problems. But everything new they release and everything I use from them makes me thankful I mostly use Apple products. I don't have to worry about the new version of Windows destroying my computer or forcing itself upon me, and I especially love knowing that my computer will not reboot itself unexpectedly at night due to security updates. I'm glad I have products made by a company that knows what it is and what it does, that focuses on stability and polish. A company that doesn't flap back and forth between consumer and enterprise computing, discontinuing devices and services as fast as they can create them. Maybe I'm still sore from the loss of my Zune, or my Windows Phone, or my TechNet subscription. I didn't start using Macs with the Lisa, or System 7, or even when OS X was released; I'm fairly new. This is only my second Mac. But I used Windows for years, and every time I hear someone say "I'm leaving Apple for Microsoft because Apple has lost their way", what I actually hear is "I'm making a symbolic statement and I don't actually care what the repercussions are." Because if anyone thinks Windows is more stable, more polished, more developer friendly, or has machines with a better build quality, I have to say... you're gonna be surprised. Maybe Apple isn't what it used to be. But it still seems a damn sight better than Windows, in almost every regard.
• nextos 10y ago
  Exactly. They don't realise loosing power users has the potential to harm you in the long run. Power users include many groups you need to target, like early adopters and indie application developers just to name a few. Back in time, when Apple switched to Intel and there was no iPhone yet, it was pretty clear to me they would become huge. There was a great ecosystem around the Mac with fantastic applications developed by Panic, Omni Group and lots of individuals. Loosing these will make your stuff enterprisey and boring, in a bad way.
  • wlesieutre 10y ago
    IMO this is what Microsoft is trying to fix with their recent open source efforts. Developers (outside of enterprise) aren't on their platform and even tend to hate the company. It turns out that's not great for their consumer software market. I can name exactly one company known for making well polished Windows utilities (Stardock), and everything else tends to look like it was developed on Windows 95. Compare to Mac where you have those companies like Panic, The Omni Group, Rogue Amoeba, Delicious Monster, Ambrosia SW, The Icon Factory, and others. I know a lot of stuff has moved online and desktop software isn't as critical as it was a decade ago, but native developers still power a big chunk of the ecosystem. Apple is clearly uninterested in supporting their professional userbase, and MS would love to have them. Personally I'm holding out for new MBPs to replace a 2011 Macbook Air (no audio, but it still runs), but I can't blame those who aren't. It'll be a bottom-of-the-line model and I can do my serious work on a Windows machine that costs half of a Mac Pro and has 3 years newer hardware.
    • wlesieutre 10y ago
      I should add to this, it's not that I like Windows 10 particularly much. It's got an annoying habit of repeatedly uninstalling working graphics drivers and replacing them with versions that are "updates" but known to be broken. And the user experience in general just isn't where OS X is. But for hobbyist sorts of work in photography, 3d modeling, and texturing, Apple's product lineup is kind of a joke. I've been using Macs since System 7 and I'd like to have one to do these things on, but Apple doesn't want to make it. For me, this is just a question of higher price and lower speed for hobbies where I could deal with that if I really wanted to. But looking at entertainment industry professionals, Apple isn't even in the market. VR and 360° video (like the Surround 360 post from earlier today[1]) just aren't going to happen on Macs. Nobody's going to spend $6000 on a machine with 3 year old GPUs that can't handle a modern workload. Historically that was a market that kept Apple afloat. Now I guess it's too small for them to care? If Substance Designer ever gets released on Linux, I'm jumping ship to elementaryOS. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12167056 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12167056
• matwood 10y ago
  It is clear that Apple does consider the desktop dead. As far as the MBPs go, I'm not sure what the hold up is. If they just kept changing out the internals with the latest Intel had to offer people would still complain, but at least be buying recent stuff. The other option would be to lower prices as the hardware got older, but that is not Apple's way. My 2014 MBP runs fine, I just would not want to pay the new 2016 computer price.
  • spronkey 10y ago
    They're probably still trying to shave another 5mm off the thing.
• DoodleBuggy 10y ago
  Of course the terribly irony is that Apple needs the power users because they are the ones who actually create things for their platforms and anything experienced by average users while on a Mac, iPad or iPhone. But no, the put a "Pro" on the end of the iPad and now we are supposed to believe that is the answer. Sorry, but an iPad will never be a usable workstation without ergonomics, a precision cursor and file system. Hey, maybe they will release Xcode for Windows or Linux?
• sinatra 10y ago
  Part of the problem is that many power users have no other option. Many of us can't use Windows because we need our primary machine to be _nix for various reasons (because our servers are Linux based, because we're used to the commands/tools from the _nix ecosystem, because configurations etc are easier to to understand and work with in the _nix ecosystem, etc). And many of us can't use Linux because there's no laptop that comes close to the power, portability, ease-of-use (think wifi, power options), screen, etc of Macbook Pro et al. Add to that the fact that many apps we need to use (Illustrator, Photoshop, Sketch, etc) don't run on Linux natively. So, even if you ignore the fact that the non-power-user is a much bigger market, there's no reason for Apple to focus heavily on power-users because we aren't going to go anywhere else.
  • giancarlostoro 10y ago
    Dell sells an XPS laptop with Ubuntu Linux installed out of the box, then you have System 76 and other companies that focus on selling you Linux-only devices. I guess your main issue after that is application compatibility. I use a VM to run Visual Studio, which is the only non-Linux application I need, but I make due with Mono Develop to some extent.
    • sinatra 10y ago
      Running a VM means I get the best of both Linux and Windows. I also get the worst of both Linux and Windows. I don't think OSX has gotten bad enough for me to go that route and be forced to manage two operating systems.
  • alyx 10y ago
    Luckily for you, Windows 10 will support Ubuntu Bash natively (as part of the anniversary update). https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/commandline/wsl/about https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/commandline/wsl/about
  • hellcow 10y ago
    I've been using Macs for years and recently switched to Windows 10 as my primary dev device. Bash on Windows is almost as good as running on a Linux kernel, and it's not finished yet. Truly the only thing I miss is Sketch. Recent changes have made Windows very approachable/usable for a Linux and Mac power user.
• coldtea 10y ago
  >As a single, insignificant data point: I just bought my first Windows laptop after 2008. I kept waiting for Apple to release Skylake professional machines. Just gave up waiting for them. The Skylake processors meant for the MacBook Pros have not yet made available by Intel. They were announced last year but are still either not available at all (TBD) or available at small quantities. The PC competitors rushed to put out PCs with whatever Skylake models Intels put out, models that have marginal gais (or sometimes even worse performance) compared to earlier Haswell. The worst one can say about Apple is not about them not rushing to adopt the BS early Skylake models that are unfit for the MBP, but that they held the prices of MBPr with older processors high while people are waiting for the refresh. That said, Apple has already put out Skylake Macbook and Skylake iMacs.
  • beamso 10y ago
    >The Skylake processors meant for the MacBook Pros have not yet made available by Intel. They were announced last year but are still either not available at all (TBD) or available at small quantities. >The worst one can say about Apple is not about them not rushing to adopt the BS early Skylake models that are unfit for the MBP, but that they held the prices of MBPr with older processors high while people are waiting for the refresh. The 15" models still use Haswell processors, not Broadwell like the 13".
    • sjwright 10y ago
      Haswell vs Broadwell is a very incremental change. Pick any metric you like and it'll be better by at most 10 percent. In most practical metrics it's a lot less than that.
      • beamso 10y ago
        It's not about it being an incremental change. Come this Friday, the same CPUs have been shipping in the 15" retina MacBook Pros for 2 years. Last spec bump was May 2015, but the change to Haswell processors was in late July 2014.
  • jwatte 10y ago
• erichmond 10y ago
  Sounds more like you don't use computers the way you used to. I use my computer for software development and music creation. Both experiences are orders of magnitude better on OS X then on Windows 10. On the rare chances I get to play games, I play on Win 10.
• mark_l_watson 10y ago
  Getting a signature machine is the way to go. Not having all that crapware installed is good. I am tired of Verizon installing crapware on my android phones so I am going for a Google device with the Fi service when I need a new phone. One thing Apple does well is not loading crapware.
• newman314 10y ago
  Different data point. I occasionally think I want a new MBP but I just got Sierra PB2 working just fine on my Mid-2009 MBP which isn't even supported. Given that I've upgraded it over the years with a SSD and maxed out the RAM, it still surprisingly feels like a pretty usable machine despite its bulk. So for me, at least for now, it's good enough and I still do not have a sufficiently compelling reason to upgrade. Hence the lack of new machines really does not bother me that much.
• jsz0 10y ago
  > It has forgotten about its power users. Features like HiDPI displays and NVMe are very much power user features. Apple was among the first in the industry to adopt those features so they've had a period of time over the last year or so without much in the pipeline for power users. Minor CPU upgrades that offer barely any performance improvement are not enough to buck the historic decline in PC sales.
• nikdaheratik 10y ago
  I think Apple just has a different view of who is important to it as far as customers go. For them it's always been about graphics/media first, education second, and everyone else is an afterthought. The OSX acquisition brought in a number of people who care about developers, but the further the OS gets from that, the closer it gets to their roots. The only major change recently being their desire to integrate as much of their work with iOS into OSX as they can. Which is helpful to their bottom line. As far as Windows vs. OSX. I've had to switch to Windows for work and I still get very frustrated with it at times. As long as I can stick to my core tools, which is text editor + shell + Firefox, I'm fine. But it's a PITA to even make simple changes to settings as they bury it behind all kinds of stupid menus. And IE is still garbage, though it's less on fire than it was. And my stupid laptop will still spin up and slow the entire system down at random times of day just to run whatever flavor of malware scanner, auto updater, or copy protection scanner it feels is suddenly more important than the work of the actual user. And then there's Office itself, which is garbage as well, as far as I'm concerned, but is pretty much the only reason why Windows exists as a platform. So I like Macs because they mostly have everything I need and stay out of my way. And also because of BBEdit which is still the best. Windows works okay, and is still better for gaming in terms of Price vs. availability, which is why I'm actually considering purchasing one at all.