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It's unbelievable that they were not able to capitalize on all those Android devices that are still running very old versions of Android. Given that Google and

by harigov 10y ago

It's unbelievable that they were not able to capitalize on all those Android devices that are still running very old versions of Android. Given that Google and the device manufacturers basically disowned those devices, I was expecting (or rather hoping) that someone will fill in that gap/need. I guess its more complicated than it seems, but I do wonder how.

taspeotis 10y ago
I think the problem with supporting "all those Android devices" is the long tail Android has [1] once you get past supporting Samsung/Motorolla/HTC devices. [1] http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/08/05/this-is-what-android-fragmentation-looks-like-in-2015/ http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/08/05/this-is-what-androi... Samsung is bad enough. Take a look here [2]. Click "Tablets" and then choose "Galaxy Tabs" as the product. I'm sure a lot of the devices are similar at a hardware level, but still, the sheer volume of them is ridiculous. [2] http://www.samsung.com/us/support/downloads http://www.samsung.com/us/support/downloads
sliken 10y ago
How exactly would one make money off abandoned android devices? This users would pay? They seemed to be considering partnering with advertisers to integrate ads into the base OS. Question is, who would voluntarily sign up for such a thing?
- stickfigure 10y ago
  This users would pay? I would. I have a GalaxyTab 10 (the abandoned Google I/O edition) still running Honeycomb that I would happily pay $10 to easily update it to something vaguely more modern. It's been useless for years, not because the hardware is bad, but the software is useless. I still can't figure out how to get something more modern on it. It's been sitting in a drawer (plugged in, oddly) collecting dust forever.
  - roel_v 10y ago
    Well that's the problem right there - you'd pay a whole 10$ and from the tone of your post, you consider that generous. The amount of people who even know or care about Android version on their devices, intersected with the amount of people who'd pay reasonable rates, is tiny.
    - eloisant 10y ago
      Even worse, you need people who: * Care about the Android version on their devices * Would pay reasonable rates * Stick with an older phone / don't buy Nexuses
      - ajsalminen 10y ago
        What's so special about Nexuses in this regard? I find the duration of support still pitifully short on them even if it's slightly better than what some other phones manage. Whether or not people care about their version, everyone should if only because of security.
      - stickfigure 10y ago
        It's not as bleak as that. There are a lot of people with manufacturer-abandoned phones that would probably be willing to shell out a modest sum to get less ancient firmware. As with everything, the economics are a question of quantity and effort. A billion Android devices enter the marketplace each year. I think the real problem is that it is just turning out to be difficult to make a silky smooth upgrade process, the kind that is consumer-friendly enough to create a mass market. It all fundamentally starts with "hack the device" and most people can't. Maybe it's just a really hard problem because it varies from device to device and base OS version to base OS version.
  - inyorgroove 10y ago
    Don't have experience with that specific device, but it looks like an Android 6.0 build is available: http://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-tab-10-1/development/rom-android-6-0-marshmallow-t3266663 http://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-tab-10-1/development/...
- dotch 10y ago
  You can always find ways to monetise an operating system. Some possibilities include: * add products/referral links to os search results (like ubuntu lenses) * add ads to the base operating system (like kindle's sponsored homescreen) * sell spots for default search providers (like bing for siri) And you target old phones by providing them with an upgrade path to cyanogen mod based on a more modern android version. Many devices are technically fully capable of running modern android versions but have been abandoned by their manufacturers.
  - rodgerd 10y ago
    > You can always find ways to monetise an operating system. That's news to pretty much every *ix vendor except Apple, Red Hat, and maybe Canonical.
colordrops 10y ago
Have you tried rooting and re-imaging an android phone with a custom rom? I'm an experienced software engineer and it took me a painful while to make it happen. I supposed they could make it easier, but the amount of effort that would go into maintaining install kits for every phone out there would be crazy.
- dredmorbius 10y ago
  This. It's actually massively soured me on Android (as well as several vendors, yes, specifically you, Samsung) as a result.
  - venomsnake 10y ago
    Sony are great - key, unlock bootloader, flash twrp, install. Not that much harder than installing linux on modern laptop - enter bios, disable secureboot, curse 4 times until you find the second secure boot setting you also need to disable, exit bios, curse till you find the boot menu hotkey for this exact laptop, boot, install
    - dredmorbius 10y ago
      Thanks, something I'll keep in mind. The Samsung hardware, fetters and chains excepted, is tolerable. The software is crap.
  - cocotino 10y ago
    What? All Samsung phones, at least in Europe, come unlocked and can be reflashed easily.
    - eli 10y ago
      I think it is the carriers adding (or turning on) extra security features like Knox in the US. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Knox https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Knox
  - PhasmaFelis 10y ago
ashitlerferad 10y ago
It costs too much in engineer time to maintain just the hardware support to do that. This will continue to be the case and also block GNU/Linux on these devices until the manufacturers start to send drivers and patches to Linux mainline before selling their devices. Unfortunately the hardware world moves so fast that the devices will be obsolete before they are supported by Linux mainline.
cocotino 10y ago
The amount of work you need to bring an Android device to a modern version is very, very big. Does a new kernel version work? (Android will require it). Will the device drivers work on a new kernel version? Will driver blobs be compatible? Chipset manufacturers will definitely not send you a new version of a driver if you're not the mobile manufacturer (and sometimes, not even if you are). You're on your own, updating the driver, or writing a shim that acts as a proxy between the driver, kernel, Android, etc. It's just not feasible.
PhasmaFelis 10y ago
CyanogenMod is open-source, though. They can sell a value-added version with extra apps and stuff, but unless they come up with something really amazing, most people will still just use the free version.
acd 10y ago
Fully agree with harigov. It would be recommended to charge for Cyanogenmod instead of giving away the operating system for free. Further it would be recommended from a revenue point of view to support the Android devices with the biggest user base. Samsung, Huawei, Xiaomi. These devices should be super easy to upgrade. Smartphone market share http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-market-share.jsp http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-market-share.jsp

by harigov 10y ago

taspeotis 10y ago

I think the problem with supporting "all those Android devices" is the long tail Android has [1] once you get past supporting Samsung/Motorolla/HTC devices. [1] http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/08/05/this-is-what-android-fragmentation-looks-like-in-2015/ http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/08/05/this-is-what-androi... Samsung is bad enough. Take a look here [2]. Click "Tablets" and then choose "Galaxy Tabs" as the product. I'm sure a lot of the devices are similar at a hardware level, but still, the sheer volume of them is ridiculous. [2] http://www.samsung.com/us/support/downloads http://www.samsung.com/us/support/downloads

sliken 10y ago

How exactly would one make money off abandoned android devices? This users would pay? They seemed to be considering partnering with advertisers to integrate ads into the base OS. Question is, who would voluntarily sign up for such a thing?

stickfigure 10y ago
This users would pay? I would. I have a GalaxyTab 10 (the abandoned Google I/O edition) still running Honeycomb that I would happily pay $10 to easily update it to something vaguely more modern. It's been useless for years, not because the hardware is bad, but the software is useless. I still can't figure out how to get something more modern on it. It's been sitting in a drawer (plugged in, oddly) collecting dust forever.
- roel_v 10y ago
  Well that's the problem right there - you'd pay a whole 10$ and from the tone of your post, you consider that generous. The amount of people who even know or care about Android version on their devices, intersected with the amount of people who'd pay reasonable rates, is tiny.
  - eloisant 10y ago
    Even worse, you need people who: * Care about the Android version on their devices * Would pay reasonable rates * Stick with an older phone / don't buy Nexuses
    - ajsalminen 10y ago
      What's so special about Nexuses in this regard? I find the duration of support still pitifully short on them even if it's slightly better than what some other phones manage. Whether or not people care about their version, everyone should if only because of security.
    - stickfigure 10y ago
      It's not as bleak as that. There are a lot of people with manufacturer-abandoned phones that would probably be willing to shell out a modest sum to get less ancient firmware. As with everything, the economics are a question of quantity and effort. A billion Android devices enter the marketplace each year. I think the real problem is that it is just turning out to be difficult to make a silky smooth upgrade process, the kind that is consumer-friendly enough to create a mass market. It all fundamentally starts with "hack the device" and most people can't. Maybe it's just a really hard problem because it varies from device to device and base OS version to base OS version.
- inyorgroove 10y ago
  Don't have experience with that specific device, but it looks like an Android 6.0 build is available: http://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-tab-10-1/development/rom-android-6-0-marshmallow-t3266663 http://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-tab-10-1/development/...
dotch 10y ago
You can always find ways to monetise an operating system. Some possibilities include: * add products/referral links to os search results (like ubuntu lenses) * add ads to the base operating system (like kindle's sponsored homescreen) * sell spots for default search providers (like bing for siri) And you target old phones by providing them with an upgrade path to cyanogen mod based on a more modern android version. Many devices are technically fully capable of running modern android versions but have been abandoned by their manufacturers.
- rodgerd 10y ago
  > You can always find ways to monetise an operating system. That's news to pretty much every *ix vendor except Apple, Red Hat, and maybe Canonical.

colordrops 10y ago

Have you tried rooting and re-imaging an android phone with a custom rom? I'm an experienced software engineer and it took me a painful while to make it happen. I supposed they could make it easier, but the amount of effort that would go into maintaining install kits for every phone out there would be crazy.

dredmorbius 10y ago
This. It's actually massively soured me on Android (as well as several vendors, yes, specifically you, Samsung) as a result.
- venomsnake 10y ago
  Sony are great - key, unlock bootloader, flash twrp, install. Not that much harder than installing linux on modern laptop - enter bios, disable secureboot, curse 4 times until you find the second secure boot setting you also need to disable, exit bios, curse till you find the boot menu hotkey for this exact laptop, boot, install
  - dredmorbius 10y ago
    Thanks, something I'll keep in mind. The Samsung hardware, fetters and chains excepted, is tolerable. The software is crap.
- cocotino 10y ago
  What? All Samsung phones, at least in Europe, come unlocked and can be reflashed easily.
  - eli 10y ago
    I think it is the carriers adding (or turning on) extra security features like Knox in the US. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Knox https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Knox
- PhasmaFelis 10y ago

ashitlerferad 10y ago

It costs too much in engineer time to maintain just the hardware support to do that. This will continue to be the case and also block GNU/Linux on these devices until the manufacturers start to send drivers and patches to Linux mainline before selling their devices. Unfortunately the hardware world moves so fast that the devices will be obsolete before they are supported by Linux mainline.

cocotino 10y ago

The amount of work you need to bring an Android device to a modern version is very, very big. Does a new kernel version work? (Android will require it). Will the device drivers work on a new kernel version? Will driver blobs be compatible? Chipset manufacturers will definitely not send you a new version of a driver if you're not the mobile manufacturer (and sometimes, not even if you are). You're on your own, updating the driver, or writing a shim that acts as a proxy between the driver, kernel, Android, etc. It's just not feasible.

PhasmaFelis 10y ago

CyanogenMod is open-source, though. They can sell a value-added version with extra apps and stuff, but unless they come up with something really amazing, most people will still just use the free version.

acd 10y ago

Fully agree with harigov. It would be recommended to charge for Cyanogenmod instead of giving away the operating system for free. Further it would be recommended from a revenue point of view to support the Android devices with the biggest user base. Samsung, Huawei, Xiaomi. These devices should be super easy to upgrade. Smartphone market share http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-market-share.jsp http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-market-share.jsp