4 ms·

I was focusing on 50 years into the development of the technology as a rough analogy. By 1966 it was much more mature, but look at how much things have changed.

by ewzimm 10y ago

I was focusing on 50 years into the development of the technology as a rough analogy. By 1966 it was much more mature, but look at how much things have changed. A mechanic from 1966 would find today's cars completely unrecognizable. They might appear somewhat similar from the outside, but on the inside they're basically just giant computers. We now have cars with varying levels of self-driving capabilities, drones replacing pilots, traditional pilots being essentially babysitters for autopilot systems, hyperloop designs. I'd say those are much bigger changes than 1936-1986.

rayiner 10y ago
Cars are not "basically just giant computers" on the inside. Computers are used to control various engine parameters, and aspects of the transmission and suspension, but all the parts that make the car go are just refined versions of what existed in the 1960s. Okay, so now we use computers to control valve timing instead of mechanical means. But the principles of what valves are and how they make the engine work are very similar to 1966. And that computing horsepower mostly goes towards fuel efficiency and safety. Which is nice, but almost certainly not the kind of progress people in the 1960's thought we'd make in automobiles over 50+ years. > traditional pilots being essentially babysitters for autopilot systems The first autopilot takeoff/cruise/landing happened in 1947. > hyperloop designs But we don't have hyperloops. > I'd say those are much bigger changes than 1936-1986. By 1986 we had fully-digital fly-by-wire aircraft. Our big achievement since then has been about a 20% improvement in fuel efficiency.
- ewzimm 10y ago
  The concept of what change is more or less significant can be pretty subjective. I'm not talking about things like fuel efficiency, although those are some really interesting facts. Autopilot in 1947! didn't know that one. Yes, cars and jets still use the same basic architecture for what makes them move, but the control mechanisms for that architecture have completely changed. To bring your comparison closer to the subject at hand, this article has nothing to do with the design of computers themselves. We could use the same basic Von Neumann architecture in 50 years and still get rid of traditional programming languages as a primary method of designing software, just like we use the same basic engine designs from 50 years ago but use entirely different methods of designing and controlling them now. Take an engineer designing a jet in 1966 and put them with a 2016 team. They will have to learn an entirely different workflow. Now computers are heavily involved in the design process and most of what was done manually by engineers is now written into software. The same situation will happen 50 years from now for people who design software. Take an extreme example like game creation. In 1966, you could make a computer game, but you were doing manual calculations and using punch cards. Now you download Unity and almost everything but the art design and game logic is done for you. Game design moved quickly toward these kinds of automated systems because they tend to have highly reusable parts and rely mostly on art and story for what separates them from the competition. But there's no reason why this same concept wouldn't apply to tools used for any kind of program. The horse to car comparison was only meant to show that the development of a technology in the first 50 years (or any arbitrary number) will not necessarily look like the next 50 years. Well-established tools quickly fall out of use when a disruptive technology has reached maturity, even if that tool has been used for thousands of years. Right now, software design is difficult, buggy, and causes constant failures and frustrations. Once we have established and recorded best practices that can be automated instead of manually remaking them every time, there will be no need for manual coding in traditional programming languages. Machines are getting much better at understanding intent, and this will be built into all software design.
  - jimbokun 10y ago
    "Take an engineer designing a jet in 1966 and put them with a 2016 team. They will have to learn an entirely different workflow." Send them to the "PCs for seniors" course at the local library to learn the basics of clicking around on a computer. Then a one or two week training course on whatever software is used to design planes these days. Getting up to date on modern "workflow" is not going to be a major hurdle for someone smart enough to design a jet. Heck, it's very likely there could be someone who started designed jets in 1966 and still designs them today. (Post retirement consultancy.)
    - ewzimm 10y ago
      My point was not that they wouldn't be able to learn it, only that the tools and methods of design have changed and become much more automated. That process has not stopped, only accelerated. The people in this article are saying that the process of making software in 50 years will be very different from the modern method. It will rely heavily on automation and what was done manually by writing in programming languages will be integrated into systems in which the intent of the designer is interpreted by a machine. You can see it in IDEs today. They already analyze and interpret code. This is extremely primitive compared to what we will have on 50 years. The progress of machine intelligence is clear and doesn't require any major breakthroughs to continue for the foreseeable future. It will be as irresponsible for most people to write everything manually in 50 years as it is not to use a debugger today. No doubt there will be people doing things the same way, just like we have traditional blacksmiths today, but we will not have billions of people typing into terminals in 50 years. The criticism is against the idea that in the future, everyone will need to learn how to code in the same way as everyone needs basic arithmetic. That is not a plausible version of the future. It's trending the other way, more automation, more code reuse, less manual entry.
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  - saluk 10y ago

by ewzimm 10y ago

rayiner 10y ago

Cars are not "basically just giant computers" on the inside. Computers are used to control various engine parameters, and aspects of the transmission and suspension, but all the parts that make the car go are just refined versions of what existed in the 1960s. Okay, so now we use computers to control valve timing instead of mechanical means. But the principles of what valves are and how they make the engine work are very similar to 1966. And that computing horsepower mostly goes towards fuel efficiency and safety. Which is nice, but almost certainly not the kind of progress people in the 1960's thought we'd make in automobiles over 50+ years. > traditional pilots being essentially babysitters for autopilot systems The first autopilot takeoff/cruise/landing happened in 1947. > hyperloop designs But we don't have hyperloops. > I'd say those are much bigger changes than 1936-1986. By 1986 we had fully-digital fly-by-wire aircraft. Our big achievement since then has been about a 20% improvement in fuel efficiency.

ewzimm 10y ago
The concept of what change is more or less significant can be pretty subjective. I'm not talking about things like fuel efficiency, although those are some really interesting facts. Autopilot in 1947! didn't know that one. Yes, cars and jets still use the same basic architecture for what makes them move, but the control mechanisms for that architecture have completely changed. To bring your comparison closer to the subject at hand, this article has nothing to do with the design of computers themselves. We could use the same basic Von Neumann architecture in 50 years and still get rid of traditional programming languages as a primary method of designing software, just like we use the same basic engine designs from 50 years ago but use entirely different methods of designing and controlling them now. Take an engineer designing a jet in 1966 and put them with a 2016 team. They will have to learn an entirely different workflow. Now computers are heavily involved in the design process and most of what was done manually by engineers is now written into software. The same situation will happen 50 years from now for people who design software. Take an extreme example like game creation. In 1966, you could make a computer game, but you were doing manual calculations and using punch cards. Now you download Unity and almost everything but the art design and game logic is done for you. Game design moved quickly toward these kinds of automated systems because they tend to have highly reusable parts and rely mostly on art and story for what separates them from the competition. But there's no reason why this same concept wouldn't apply to tools used for any kind of program. The horse to car comparison was only meant to show that the development of a technology in the first 50 years (or any arbitrary number) will not necessarily look like the next 50 years. Well-established tools quickly fall out of use when a disruptive technology has reached maturity, even if that tool has been used for thousands of years. Right now, software design is difficult, buggy, and causes constant failures and frustrations. Once we have established and recorded best practices that can be automated instead of manually remaking them every time, there will be no need for manual coding in traditional programming languages. Machines are getting much better at understanding intent, and this will be built into all software design.
- jimbokun 10y ago
  "Take an engineer designing a jet in 1966 and put them with a 2016 team. They will have to learn an entirely different workflow." Send them to the "PCs for seniors" course at the local library to learn the basics of clicking around on a computer. Then a one or two week training course on whatever software is used to design planes these days. Getting up to date on modern "workflow" is not going to be a major hurdle for someone smart enough to design a jet. Heck, it's very likely there could be someone who started designed jets in 1966 and still designs them today. (Post retirement consultancy.)
  - ewzimm 10y ago
    My point was not that they wouldn't be able to learn it, only that the tools and methods of design have changed and become much more automated. That process has not stopped, only accelerated. The people in this article are saying that the process of making software in 50 years will be very different from the modern method. It will rely heavily on automation and what was done manually by writing in programming languages will be integrated into systems in which the intent of the designer is interpreted by a machine. You can see it in IDEs today. They already analyze and interpret code. This is extremely primitive compared to what we will have on 50 years. The progress of machine intelligence is clear and doesn't require any major breakthroughs to continue for the foreseeable future. It will be as irresponsible for most people to write everything manually in 50 years as it is not to use a debugger today. No doubt there will be people doing things the same way, just like we have traditional blacksmiths today, but we will not have billions of people typing into terminals in 50 years. The criticism is against the idea that in the future, everyone will need to learn how to code in the same way as everyone needs basic arithmetic. That is not a plausible version of the future. It's trending the other way, more automation, more code reuse, less manual entry.
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- deleted 10y ago
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- saluk 10y ago