8 ms·

David Chang himself throws me for a Strange Loop. On the one hand he is a genius and I'm so intrigued by his take on food, but then he'll talk about how he love

David Chang himself throws me for a Strange Loop. On the one hand he is a genius and I'm so intrigued by his take on food, but then he'll talk about how he loves gas station hotdogs or orange chicken from Panda Express. I love that he can be pretentious in his unpretentiousness. If you haven't seen it yet, I highly recommend the PBS series The Mind of a Chef. The first season is all about David Chang, narated by Anthony Bourdain. It's on Netflix and at least the Ramen episode is on Daily Motion.

mc32 10y ago
I dont see a dichotomy in that at all. Nostalgia has great pull. His household didn't have great cooks. Eating hot dogs and other fast food isn't about the taste per se, but rather the whole they represent. So, yeah, he can sincerely enjoy a hot dog, just like the nine year old David enjoyed a hot dog with his family. As an adult, who is a renowned chef, he can also summon other more culinary aspects and gastronomy to enjoy more sophisticated aspects of eating.
paperpunk 10y ago
This is slightly off-topic to the main, but related to things with David Chang in... The HBO series 'Treme', set in a neighbourhood of New Orleans post-Katrina, prominently features David Chang playing a fictionalised version of himself. One of the main characters spends the second season working under him in New York. Quite odd.
taneq 10y ago
I've always held that if you don't enjoy something across a wide range of the spectrum on which it exists, you can't really call yourself an enthusiast. If you say you're a sushi connoisseur, but you only like top-shelf sushi prepared by world renowned chefs, then you don't really like sushi. You just like nice things. If you say you're a wine aficionado, but you will only drink wine that you've read is good, you don't really like wine.
- beachstartup 10y ago
  the word most people use is 'snob'.
  - rhizome 10y ago
    I contend that a snob is a person who has an articulable reason why they don't like something. Hopefully this isn't too obscure of a reference, but for example I don't like Primus not because they suck, but because I don't like the drummer's snare sound. This makes me a snob about Primus' music.
    - abtinf 10y ago
      Your view runs counter to the dictionary definition of snob, which includes a strong negative connotation: 1. a person who imitates, cultivates, or slavishly admires social superiors and is condescending or overbearing to others. 2. a person who believes himself or herself an expert or connoisseur in a given field and is condescending toward or disdainful of those who hold other opinions or have different tastes regarding this field. In the first case, a snob substitutes the views of the social elite for his own judgement. In the second case, a snob declares himself a member of the social elite because he holds different views. In both cases, what makes the person a snob is that they are not judging the material qua the material; indeed they are not concerned with the material at all. Instead, they are concerned with social advantage. I'm not sure there is a word for someone who judges a subject based on the merits. An enthusiast?
      - rhizome 10y ago
        Your view runs counter to the dictionary definition of snob I'm fine with that. If you want to make "elites" a foundation for a definition, you might as well just roll both of those up into "bourgeois," thought #2 is arguably more "asshole." For me, an enthusiast might be someone who finds reasons to be into something (the opposite of my def of snob), but I don't think there's a word for simply liking stuff that is good. "Not completely depressed," perhaps.
  - 10y ago
malkia 10y ago
Much like us software engineers - don't we like to dabble with embedded, memory limited systems, up to heavily distributed who knows where on earth machines. Or from real-time, to long heavy batch jobs. Or at least I like reading about the whole spectrum, not only part of it.
epimetheus 10y ago
I'm interested in watching that series, but I'm not seeing it on Netflix (streaming). It's probably available on disk, but I'm not sure if that's what you meant. Just an FYI for those, like me, that don't have a disk plan.
mmanfrin 10y ago
I have a $3k espresso machine but I also love gas station coffee -- there's something about it sitting on a bunn burner for probably 6 hours that adds something to the flavor, or maybe I just associate that flavor with super-early-morning travel, getting up to pick up a friend at 4am, having the blearyness stripped back by the caffeine. Nice things -- like fancy coffee makers -- are nice, but so are other things.
zeroer 10y ago
Gas station hot dogs with mustard is f*%&ing delicious. And the orange chicken probably has MSG, so it's not for me, but most people like it.
- olivierlacan 10y ago
  You might want to watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1oR0EYaOHY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1oR0EYaOHY It's relevant because it's from Mind of Chef season 1 with David Chang.
- buzzybee 10y ago
  Orange chicken at Panda contains wheat, soy, egg, and dairy products. [0] These are all things that are commonly used in fast food to thicken up the taste. Wheat, soy and dairy also have a small element of physical addiction from opioids - it's not just that people like the taste of these things. [0] https://s3.amazonaws.com/PandaExpressWebsite/files/pdf/Nutrition.pdf https://s3.amazonaws.com/PandaExpressWebsite/files/pdf/Nutri...
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
Eric_WVGG 10y ago
Chang defending shitty American beer — http://www.gq.com/story/david-chang-cheap-beer http://www.gq.com/story/david-chang-cheap-beer
plusepsilon 10y ago
A lot of commoner food (like ketchup and soy sauce) would be revolutionary if they were discovered today. Ketchup is the perfect blend of umami (tomato), salt and vinegar. Soy sauce goes well with most anything. Many of the fancy sauces you pay bank are not as good as soy sauce or ketchup. They become common because they are sooo good but also a little boring once you get used to it. Combining orange and chicken is simple but powerful because they are favorite foods for many people and they have completely different flavor profiles (of course orange chicken could be executed better than Panda Express!).
- soundwave106 10y ago
  Sometimes the only real problem with "commoner food" is that, being commercialized, they lose variety, which can lead to that boredom you speak of. Take ketchup. From what I understand, a century ago, making homemade ketchup was a lot more common, and there was quite a bit more variety in the spices used. (This old cookbook -- http://digital.lib.msu.edu/projects/cookbooks/books/settlementcookbook/sett.pdf http://digital.lib.msu.edu/projects/cookbooks/books/settleme... -- has three recipes for "catsup" on page 439-440 alone.) One of my great grand-aunts regularly made ketchup in Indiana, and it was very different from commercial ketchup. A fair bit runnier (no xantham gum), a fair bit "sweeter" (it used regular sugar instead of corn syrup / HFCS which may have contributed to this), and nice notes of garlic. Commercial store bought ketchup, meanwhile, unfortunately seems stuck either being Heinz ketchup, or imitating Heinz ketchup.
  - TeMPOraL 10y ago
    Interesting. Ketchup is actually one of the products that I'm most picky about. When I come to store, I have a choice of 5 - 20 different varieties (depending on the store size); each of them tastes different, every company has a different idea about its consistency (some are dense, some are almost as thin as tomato juice). If they've lost variety, they must have done that over an orthogonal variable I don't even realize could be a spectrum.
    - deanCommie 10y ago
Alex3917 10y ago
He's also an enormous asshole. He refuses to make anything vegetarian, even though everything is prepared to order. E.g. the spicy noodles at the noodle bar just have some crumbled sausage sprinkled on top, but if you ask for the dish without the sausage he will kick you out of the restaurant. I'm not even a vegetarian, but there's no reason to go out of your way to be a dick towards people who are actually making a considerable personal sacrifice for the benefit of others.
- jimmywanger 10y ago
  ¨Considerable personal sacrifice for the benefit of others?¨ It´s his restaurant. You knew it coming in. He´s not an asshole, he cares about how his food tastes. If you´re not willing to accomodate his wishes, maybe make another considerable personal sacrifice and not go into his restaurant to be served in the way you want. Last I checked, his restaurants are always full. Why would he want your business?
  - analog31 10y ago
    My take from the article was that he actually cares about how people experience the food that he makes. Still, vegetarian cooking is hard. Doing justice to vegetables within a restaurant workflow is hard. Very few restaurants can pull it off. If he simply feels that he can't do it justice, he's probably right. Those things might be regarded as the province of home cooking.
    - erikpukinskis 10y ago
      Yep. In order to make a vegan dish that matches the complexity of a meat dish, you essentially have to recreate the entire life of an animal in a kitchen in a single day. You need to create the same complexity with heat, knife, and diversity of ingredients that the animal would've created over months and months of metabolism and grazing. It's extremely difficult, and there is a reason people prefer to just throw a piece of meat on the grill rather than risk their hand at plant-based cooking. An entire falafel sandwich begins to approach the complexity of a simple fried egg, but doesn't even quite get there. And a chicken can create an egg in a day. I say all of this lovingly, as a long time vegan. I have a lot of respect for animals.
nether 10y ago
I like David Chang but this is textbook hipster affectation. What distinguishes hipsterdom is the penchant for both high and low brow tastes. Drinking PBR and whatever microwbrew is popular in the locale that week. Nothing new or unique about this.

mc32 10y ago

I dont see a dichotomy in that at all. Nostalgia has great pull. His household didn't have great cooks. Eating hot dogs and other fast food isn't about the taste per se, but rather the whole they represent. So, yeah, he can sincerely enjoy a hot dog, just like the nine year old David enjoyed a hot dog with his family. As an adult, who is a renowned chef, he can also summon other more culinary aspects and gastronomy to enjoy more sophisticated aspects of eating.

paperpunk 10y ago

This is slightly off-topic to the main, but related to things with David Chang in... The HBO series 'Treme', set in a neighbourhood of New Orleans post-Katrina, prominently features David Chang playing a fictionalised version of himself. One of the main characters spends the second season working under him in New York. Quite odd.

taneq 10y ago

I've always held that if you don't enjoy something across a wide range of the spectrum on which it exists, you can't really call yourself an enthusiast. If you say you're a sushi connoisseur, but you only like top-shelf sushi prepared by world renowned chefs, then you don't really like sushi. You just like nice things. If you say you're a wine aficionado, but you will only drink wine that you've read is good, you don't really like wine.

beachstartup 10y ago
the word most people use is 'snob'.
- rhizome 10y ago
  I contend that a snob is a person who has an articulable reason why they don't like something. Hopefully this isn't too obscure of a reference, but for example I don't like Primus not because they suck, but because I don't like the drummer's snare sound. This makes me a snob about Primus' music.
  - abtinf 10y ago
    Your view runs counter to the dictionary definition of snob, which includes a strong negative connotation: 1. a person who imitates, cultivates, or slavishly admires social superiors and is condescending or overbearing to others. 2. a person who believes himself or herself an expert or connoisseur in a given field and is condescending toward or disdainful of those who hold other opinions or have different tastes regarding this field. In the first case, a snob substitutes the views of the social elite for his own judgement. In the second case, a snob declares himself a member of the social elite because he holds different views. In both cases, what makes the person a snob is that they are not judging the material qua the material; indeed they are not concerned with the material at all. Instead, they are concerned with social advantage. I'm not sure there is a word for someone who judges a subject based on the merits. An enthusiast?
    - rhizome 10y ago
      Your view runs counter to the dictionary definition of snob I'm fine with that. If you want to make "elites" a foundation for a definition, you might as well just roll both of those up into "bourgeois," thought #2 is arguably more "asshole." For me, an enthusiast might be someone who finds reasons to be into something (the opposite of my def of snob), but I don't think there's a word for simply liking stuff that is good. "Not completely depressed," perhaps.
- 10y ago

malkia 10y ago

Much like us software engineers - don't we like to dabble with embedded, memory limited systems, up to heavily distributed who knows where on earth machines. Or from real-time, to long heavy batch jobs. Or at least I like reading about the whole spectrum, not only part of it.

epimetheus 10y ago

I'm interested in watching that series, but I'm not seeing it on Netflix (streaming). It's probably available on disk, but I'm not sure if that's what you meant. Just an FYI for those, like me, that don't have a disk plan.

mmanfrin 10y ago

I have a $3k espresso machine but I also love gas station coffee -- there's something about it sitting on a bunn burner for probably 6 hours that adds something to the flavor, or maybe I just associate that flavor with super-early-morning travel, getting up to pick up a friend at 4am, having the blearyness stripped back by the caffeine. Nice things -- like fancy coffee makers -- are nice, but so are other things.

zeroer 10y ago

Gas station hot dogs with mustard is f*%&ing delicious. And the orange chicken probably has MSG, so it's not for me, but most people like it.

olivierlacan 10y ago
You might want to watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1oR0EYaOHY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1oR0EYaOHY It's relevant because it's from Mind of Chef season 1 with David Chang.
buzzybee 10y ago
Orange chicken at Panda contains wheat, soy, egg, and dairy products. [0] These are all things that are commonly used in fast food to thicken up the taste. Wheat, soy and dairy also have a small element of physical addiction from opioids - it's not just that people like the taste of these things. [0] https://s3.amazonaws.com/PandaExpressWebsite/files/pdf/Nutrition.pdf https://s3.amazonaws.com/PandaExpressWebsite/files/pdf/Nutri...
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

Eric_WVGG 10y ago

Chang defending shitty American beer — http://www.gq.com/story/david-chang-cheap-beer http://www.gq.com/story/david-chang-cheap-beer

plusepsilon 10y ago

A lot of commoner food (like ketchup and soy sauce) would be revolutionary if they were discovered today. Ketchup is the perfect blend of umami (tomato), salt and vinegar. Soy sauce goes well with most anything. Many of the fancy sauces you pay bank are not as good as soy sauce or ketchup. They become common because they are sooo good but also a little boring once you get used to it. Combining orange and chicken is simple but powerful because they are favorite foods for many people and they have completely different flavor profiles (of course orange chicken could be executed better than Panda Express!).

soundwave106 10y ago
Sometimes the only real problem with "commoner food" is that, being commercialized, they lose variety, which can lead to that boredom you speak of. Take ketchup. From what I understand, a century ago, making homemade ketchup was a lot more common, and there was quite a bit more variety in the spices used. (This old cookbook -- http://digital.lib.msu.edu/projects/cookbooks/books/settlementcookbook/sett.pdf http://digital.lib.msu.edu/projects/cookbooks/books/settleme... -- has three recipes for "catsup" on page 439-440 alone.) One of my great grand-aunts regularly made ketchup in Indiana, and it was very different from commercial ketchup. A fair bit runnier (no xantham gum), a fair bit "sweeter" (it used regular sugar instead of corn syrup / HFCS which may have contributed to this), and nice notes of garlic. Commercial store bought ketchup, meanwhile, unfortunately seems stuck either being Heinz ketchup, or imitating Heinz ketchup.
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  Interesting. Ketchup is actually one of the products that I'm most picky about. When I come to store, I have a choice of 5 - 20 different varieties (depending on the store size); each of them tastes different, every company has a different idea about its consistency (some are dense, some are almost as thin as tomato juice). If they've lost variety, they must have done that over an orthogonal variable I don't even realize could be a spectrum.
  - deanCommie 10y ago

Alex3917 10y ago

He's also an enormous asshole. He refuses to make anything vegetarian, even though everything is prepared to order. E.g. the spicy noodles at the noodle bar just have some crumbled sausage sprinkled on top, but if you ask for the dish without the sausage he will kick you out of the restaurant. I'm not even a vegetarian, but there's no reason to go out of your way to be a dick towards people who are actually making a considerable personal sacrifice for the benefit of others.

jimmywanger 10y ago
¨Considerable personal sacrifice for the benefit of others?¨ It´s his restaurant. You knew it coming in. He´s not an asshole, he cares about how his food tastes. If you´re not willing to accomodate his wishes, maybe make another considerable personal sacrifice and not go into his restaurant to be served in the way you want. Last I checked, his restaurants are always full. Why would he want your business?
- analog31 10y ago
  My take from the article was that he actually cares about how people experience the food that he makes. Still, vegetarian cooking is hard. Doing justice to vegetables within a restaurant workflow is hard. Very few restaurants can pull it off. If he simply feels that he can't do it justice, he's probably right. Those things might be regarded as the province of home cooking.
  - erikpukinskis 10y ago
    Yep. In order to make a vegan dish that matches the complexity of a meat dish, you essentially have to recreate the entire life of an animal in a kitchen in a single day. You need to create the same complexity with heat, knife, and diversity of ingredients that the animal would've created over months and months of metabolism and grazing. It's extremely difficult, and there is a reason people prefer to just throw a piece of meat on the grill rather than risk their hand at plant-based cooking. An entire falafel sandwich begins to approach the complexity of a simple fried egg, but doesn't even quite get there. And a chicken can create an egg in a day. I say all of this lovingly, as a long time vegan. I have a lot of respect for animals.

nether 10y ago

I like David Chang but this is textbook hipster affectation. What distinguishes hipsterdom is the penchant for both high and low brow tastes. Drinking PBR and whatever microwbrew is popular in the locale that week. Nothing new or unique about this.