5 ms·

Oh nice. The white European blaming is already starting. Let's forget that the majority of Turks elected a half-mad men that bases his discourse in the superio

Oh nice. The white European blaming is already starting. Let's forget that the majority of Turks elected a half-mad men that bases his discourse in the superiority of Islam and in the ethnical cleansing of Kurdistan. Let's forget that Erdogan supported the Islamic state. Let's forget that the Turks re-elected him after all this. Let's forget all these pro-Erdogan demonstrations going on in the streets of Ankara and Istambul right now, just as the guy wants to re-implement capital punishment and is sacking judges, deans, policeman and military as he pleases. Let's forget that Erdogan is bombing the only guys that are opposing the Islamic State in the field right this moment. No, let's instead do what all the cool kids do and blame the West. Cause you know... in the end, it's always the West that must get to be blamed for all evils of the world.

vixen99 10y ago
As declaimed by Royce Mann http://www.vox.com/2016/7/16/12184772/white-boy-privilege-royce-mann http://www.vox.com/2016/7/16/12184772/white-boy-privilege-ro...
- jbmorgado 10y ago
  Yes, it's my white male privilege that the majority of voters in Turkey elected a nutjob for his religious extremism and promises of violence against the kurdish part of the population. You are right... blame my privilege for what's happening in Turkey.
shabaan 10y ago
Nice too.. Let's go into each of the past instances of history and make it excuse to blame TURKEY today Lets forget how many turkish lives did kurdish terrorist attacks claimed before we claim "ethnic cleansing" for fighting men in uniform Lets forget Erdogan returned US citizens trying to cross to syria and the airbase from where 95% airstrikes happen Lets rant on capital punishment for treason-ers but claim to the torch of democracy and support dictators (sisi) giving dealth penalty to protectors Lets try to say.. I am the different one. Because I have a better conspiracy theory than you
- jbmorgado 10y ago
  I told you facts, you told me conspiration theories. Perhaps you don't understand the difference.
grandalf 10y ago
Your comment is full of unsupported propaganda statements. For the sake of your own rationality, please try to make a rational argument supporting them.
- jbmorgado 10y ago
  The comment is totally factual, except the very last sentence which is my personal logic conclusion to what is presented before. If you don't think so, perhaps you could pinpoint anything in my comment that is not true.
  - grandalf 10y ago
    Do you have evidence that Erdogan is mentally ill? This is a critique commonly made toward political leaders we disagree with. Notably, Saddam was seriously considered mentally ill by many in the US, which helped Americans view him (and his people) as less than human.
    - jbmorgado 10y ago
      Ah, ok, so that is the only part of all I said that you can pinpoint it's not accurate. Very well, I agree that Erdogan being half mad (so mentally ill from your interpretation) is not easily proved. His speeches and the construction of the new palace (and the reasons given for it: https://www.yahoo.com/news/cockroaches-made-want-palace-says-turkeys-erdogan-150049344.html?ref=gs https://www.yahoo.com/news/cockroaches-made-want-palace-says...) indicate that he shouldn't be totally sane. But I agree it's something difficult to prove. I'm glad you agree with the rest then. That was the important part.
      - grandalf 10y ago
        I do not agree with the rest. I do not see how his support of ISIS is necessarily harmful. ISIS is a grassroots movement with a goal of Islamic solidarity. ISIS is opposed to US intervention in the region because it views such intervention as harming Islamic solidarity. I do not think that (aside from some demand for Erdogan's loyalty to the US) that being supportive of such a movement in the region is necessarily a bad thing. Of course, the tactics used by ISIS leave a lot to be desired, but so do the tactics used by the US in fighting ISIS, so I am not necessarily prepared to declare ISIS unconditionally morally in the wrong.
matt4077 10y ago
With a bit of reading comprehension, you'd notice that I don't disagree – Erdogan is one of the reasons I'm glad there's a "biological term limit" that should hit him in the next 10 years. The people are equally to blame (though it becomes harder when the disappearance of democratic institutions makes ignorance more understandable). Also I guess that Mr. Trump is a good example of what can happen even in the most stable democracies. But that doesn't negate the fact that the fate of nations can be influenced from the outside. Actions – those in foreign policy – have consequences. Otherwise: why bother? This also doesn't fit in your narrative of me being critical of some sort of post-colonialistic lack of altruism. I am saying that Europe had a golden opportunity to gain a strong foothold in the middle east and just let it go to waste. It's also another failure in the rising culture war between democracy and authoritarian capitalists (Putin, Erdogan, Trump, China, Hungary). This time around, the enemy isn't quite as stupid as during the cold war...
- tremon 10y ago
  I am saying that Europe had a golden opportunity to gain a strong foothold in the middle east But I think that is showing some misunderstanding about the role and purpose of the EU: it simply is not and was never intended to be an imperialist engine. It is a trading bloc that primarily operates to harmonize markets, not governments. The entire reason why Turkey had to jump through so many hoops to join the EU is because the EU isn't there to regulate governments: it requires a stable and open government to guarantee market access. Europe already has huge issues dealing with Poland and Hungary voting in parties with strong isolationist tendencies, do you really think the EU could have done anything to stop Erdogan's current direction?
  - tim333 10y ago
    Some people want the EU to basically harmonize markets but there are a lot that want it to do more than that. One of the main arguments in Brexit was the extent to which the EU could control non market stuff like immigration and human rights law and Turkey only dropped the death penalty to fit in with EU standards.
    - 10y ago
dang 10y ago
Your comments in this thread are violating the HN guidelines. Please don't conduct political flamewars here. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12128627 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12128627 and marked it off-topic.

vixen99 10y ago

As declaimed by Royce Mann http://www.vox.com/2016/7/16/12184772/white-boy-privilege-royce-mann http://www.vox.com/2016/7/16/12184772/white-boy-privilege-ro...

jbmorgado 10y ago
Yes, it's my white male privilege that the majority of voters in Turkey elected a nutjob for his religious extremism and promises of violence against the kurdish part of the population. You are right... blame my privilege for what's happening in Turkey.

shabaan 10y ago

Nice too.. Let's go into each of the past instances of history and make it excuse to blame TURKEY today Lets forget how many turkish lives did kurdish terrorist attacks claimed before we claim "ethnic cleansing" for fighting men in uniform Lets forget Erdogan returned US citizens trying to cross to syria and the airbase from where 95% airstrikes happen Lets rant on capital punishment for treason-ers but claim to the torch of democracy and support dictators (sisi) giving dealth penalty to protectors Lets try to say.. I am the different one. Because I have a better conspiracy theory than you

jbmorgado 10y ago
I told you facts, you told me conspiration theories. Perhaps you don't understand the difference.

grandalf 10y ago

Your comment is full of unsupported propaganda statements. For the sake of your own rationality, please try to make a rational argument supporting them.

jbmorgado 10y ago
The comment is totally factual, except the very last sentence which is my personal logic conclusion to what is presented before. If you don't think so, perhaps you could pinpoint anything in my comment that is not true.
- grandalf 10y ago
  Do you have evidence that Erdogan is mentally ill? This is a critique commonly made toward political leaders we disagree with. Notably, Saddam was seriously considered mentally ill by many in the US, which helped Americans view him (and his people) as less than human.
  - jbmorgado 10y ago
    Ah, ok, so that is the only part of all I said that you can pinpoint it's not accurate. Very well, I agree that Erdogan being half mad (so mentally ill from your interpretation) is not easily proved. His speeches and the construction of the new palace (and the reasons given for it: https://www.yahoo.com/news/cockroaches-made-want-palace-says-turkeys-erdogan-150049344.html?ref=gs https://www.yahoo.com/news/cockroaches-made-want-palace-says...) indicate that he shouldn't be totally sane. But I agree it's something difficult to prove. I'm glad you agree with the rest then. That was the important part.
    - grandalf 10y ago
      I do not agree with the rest. I do not see how his support of ISIS is necessarily harmful. ISIS is a grassroots movement with a goal of Islamic solidarity. ISIS is opposed to US intervention in the region because it views such intervention as harming Islamic solidarity. I do not think that (aside from some demand for Erdogan's loyalty to the US) that being supportive of such a movement in the region is necessarily a bad thing. Of course, the tactics used by ISIS leave a lot to be desired, but so do the tactics used by the US in fighting ISIS, so I am not necessarily prepared to declare ISIS unconditionally morally in the wrong.

matt4077 10y ago

With a bit of reading comprehension, you'd notice that I don't disagree – Erdogan is one of the reasons I'm glad there's a "biological term limit" that should hit him in the next 10 years. The people are equally to blame (though it becomes harder when the disappearance of democratic institutions makes ignorance more understandable). Also I guess that Mr. Trump is a good example of what can happen even in the most stable democracies. But that doesn't negate the fact that the fate of nations can be influenced from the outside. Actions – those in foreign policy – have consequences. Otherwise: why bother? This also doesn't fit in your narrative of me being critical of some sort of post-colonialistic lack of altruism. I am saying that Europe had a golden opportunity to gain a strong foothold in the middle east and just let it go to waste. It's also another failure in the rising culture war between democracy and authoritarian capitalists (Putin, Erdogan, Trump, China, Hungary). This time around, the enemy isn't quite as stupid as during the cold war...

tremon 10y ago
I am saying that Europe had a golden opportunity to gain a strong foothold in the middle east But I think that is showing some misunderstanding about the role and purpose of the EU: it simply is not and was never intended to be an imperialist engine. It is a trading bloc that primarily operates to harmonize markets, not governments. The entire reason why Turkey had to jump through so many hoops to join the EU is because the EU isn't there to regulate governments: it requires a stable and open government to guarantee market access. Europe already has huge issues dealing with Poland and Hungary voting in parties with strong isolationist tendencies, do you really think the EU could have done anything to stop Erdogan's current direction?
- tim333 10y ago
  Some people want the EU to basically harmonize markets but there are a lot that want it to do more than that. One of the main arguments in Brexit was the extent to which the EU could control non market stuff like immigration and human rights law and Turkey only dropped the death penalty to fit in with EU standards.
  - 10y ago

dang 10y ago

Your comments in this thread are violating the HN guidelines. Please don't conduct political flamewars here. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12128627 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12128627 and marked it off-topic.