8 ms·

A VERY timely article for me. About a month ago here in Silicon Valley, I noticed that a crow had been violently torn apart and the pieces scattered all over my

by SiVal 10y ago

A VERY timely article for me. About a month ago here in Silicon Valley, I noticed that a crow had been violently torn apart and the pieces scattered all over my backyard lawn. I assume the killer was a raccoon--another improbably intelligent animal. How those fat, little ninjas do what they do is beyond me, but one had apparently caught a crow. A few hours after I noticed the carnage, I grabbed a paper grocery bag and some rubber gloves and went outside to collect the crow parts. As soon as I touched the first piece (a large, black, detached wing), a dozen crows appeared out of nowhere flying in tight circles over my head (about the height of the roof of my 2-story house) and shrieking. They must have been standing watch for hours waiting to see what would happen. Within a minute or so, their numbers had doubled, swarming like bees and screeching. They went so berserk that I thought for sure they would swoop down and peck at me like Alfred Hitchcock's "The Birds", but they didn't. They stayed up there and screeched the whole time I was cleaning up (maybe ten minutes). I took the bag over to the recycling bin on the side of the house. Property is expensive, so the houses are close together leaving only a narrow slit of sky above me. The crows followed me and flew back and forth right above the gap, still screeching at me. I hadn't killed the bird, but they were acting like an angry mob blaming the wrong guy. I was already aware of the studies showing that crows recognize individual people and can bear grudges for years. I was afraid that's what I was going to end up with, but after that event, they never bothered me again, and I see crows around my house frequently. Maybe they DID know that I wasn't the killer, but they had some other agenda. From my perspective, they (and raccoons) are essentially alien intelligences living among us that I always underestimate and still don't understand.

Unklejoe 10y ago
[They stayed up there and screeched the whole time I was cleaning up (maybe ten minutes).] I probably would have went inside and left the remains to nature. I commend your bravery. It seems like a squad of crows could do some real damage to a person. Also, I can confirm that raccoons are very intelligent. They're basically like dogs but with more "street smarts". I learned this after trying to get one to leave my attic. Also, a side note about Raccoons: be sure not to expose yourself to their droppings (for example, if one is living in your attic, don't go and clean up their droppings without proper protection). They can apparently contain some airborne parasite which can kill you in days if inhaled.
- dec0dedab0de 10y ago
  It seems like a squad of crows could do some real damage to a person. A group of crows is called a murder, not that it matters, but it fits the theme of the story a bit.
  - blastrat 10y ago
    The big list of collective nouns for animals is just a made up thing, sort of like a book of poetry. There are a small number of ye olde Englishe words for some types of groups (like school of fish) and some of the fanciful names from the book have moved into common usage, but the dramatically expanded version is not known to have ever been actually used some info here https://www.macquariedictionary.com.au/resources/view/resource/4/ https://www.macquariedictionary.com.au/resources/view/resour... this is one old source https://archive.org/details/cu31924031031184 https://archive.org/details/cu31924031031184
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
- krashnburn200 10y ago
  So can mouse poop, but it's extraordinarily rare so no one really worries about it, well no one sane. Err present company excluded ;) http://www.cdc.gov/hantavirus/hps/ http://www.cdc.gov/hantavirus/hps/ It's rare enough that individual cases end up on TV.
  - goda90 10y ago
    I took a wilderness survival course in college that included multiple days in the wilderness for the final. In over 40 years there had only been two deaths. One was dehydration due to a stupid fad diet and the other was hantavirus. It looks like the flu until it's too late. So if you are around mice droppings and get flu like symptoms soon after, get to a doctor soon.
    - 10y ago
Spooky23 10y ago
My city has a big flock of them that migrate to another city. Some USDA guys chase them around in a pickup truck when the group gets big and chases them away with strobe lights, lasers, distressed crow sound effects and bottle rockets. When they show up and start settings up, the crows swarm them and poop everywhere. It's pretty crazy.
- echelon 10y ago
  The USDA deterrent must be crazy to watch. Lasers pointed at crows? Fireworks? I suppose it would be effective, but it sounds wild (and perhaps cruel in the case of fireworks--they're not shooting them at the animals, are they?)
  - Spooky23 10y ago
    It is bizarre. The first time I saw it I thought it was just some crazy people. What happens in the fall and winter is that they roost in mass in large trees in large numbers -- I'm talking tens of thousands of birds. We tend to get them in our trees in the morning for some reason, and they aren't as active, so it isn't that big of a deal. But a few blocks away they land in the evening and make a lot of noise -- it's almost like car horns. With the fireworks, they don't aim at them, but almost set them up in a "box" to agitate them. I think the objective is to get them broken up into smaller groups and move off to a less populated area. The freaky thing is the distressed crow noises coming from a PA in the back of the truck.
- eggoa 10y ago
  The USDA sounds like a shitshow in general. http://harpers.org/archive/2016/03/the-rogue-agency/6/ http://harpers.org/archive/2016/03/the-rogue-agency/6/
  - imglorp 10y ago
    In many ways yes, because in effect they represent producers' interests, which are often in opposition to the public's and the country's interests. * Puppy mills fall under USDA regulation, because animals are livestock. The agency has been enabling cruelty on mass scale for years, through failure to police simple standards. http://www.caps-web.org/blogs/our-least-favorite-acronym/ http://www.caps-web.org/blogs/our-least-favorite-acronym/ * Remember the food pyramid? It's been tugged not by science but by grain and meat interests for years. eg, http://www.ruralvotes.com/thebackforty/?p=4805 http://www.ruralvotes.com/thebackforty/?p=4805 * Grazing federal lands (USDA forest service...) is a subsidy for ranchers that damages via erosion and contamination. I'm okay with that but the cost should be borne by the ranchers and reflected in product pricing, not via the taxpayers. * Meat inspection is a joke. Have you eaten any prions (CJD, mad cow) lately? No one knows because we don't require bulk testing. Hormones, antibiotics in the farm runoff? Bacterial resistance? You're paying for that in the long run too. Mor USDA failure to protect the public. * Corruption? Sure: http://www.cornucopia.org/2015/05/latest-usda-scandal-organic-program-dismisses-legal-complaints-targeting-factory-farms-without-investigating/ http://www.cornucopia.org/2015/05/latest-usda-scandal-organi... Not my favorite agency.
glasz 10y ago
surely the crowd would have calmed down if you buried the poor pal. but instead you threw it into the trash can. come on...
- guptaneil 10y ago
  Burying our dead is a primarily western culture tradition. Many other cultures prefer cremation for example. Why would the birds care how you dispose of the body? It's possible the birds knew OP wasn't the killer and were hoping to intimidate them into leaving the body alone in hopes of catching the real killer, but that's just a guess.
  - RaleyField 10y ago
    > It's possible the birds knew OP wasn't the killer and were hoping to intimidate them into leaving the body alone in hopes of catching the real killer, Or the birds remembered the real killer of their fellow crow but then OP showed up and so therefore, ipso facto, he must've killed the crow but they couldn't know both couldn't kill the crow because they are birds so shriek.
  - SEJeff 10y ago
    Hmmmm, humans have buried our dead since at least the times of the ancient Egyptians, and likely long before that.
kamaal 10y ago
>>They went so berserk that I thought for sure they would swoop down and peck at me like Alfred Hitchcock's "The Birds", but they didn't. You got lucky. Here in India, crows get electrified all the time and if you try to clean up a good set of crows will peck on you. And trust me I've been pecked once and it hurts real bad, some times it rough enough to make a person bleed.
- SEJeff 10y ago
  Would it be unreasonable to go at them with a cricket bat if they dive bomb you? Not out of aggression, but self defense.
  - Gracana 10y ago
    That doesn't sound anything like self defense.
    - SEJeff 10y ago
      If they are trying to peck you, how is it not self defense?!
      - Gracana 10y ago
        It's entirely unnecessary cruelty. Taking a weapon with you so you can retaliate after you provoke an attack isn't a defensive strategy.
        andrewflnr 10y ago
        Cleaning up bird corpses near human habitation habitat isn't necessary? You have curious ideas of what's necessary.
        Gracana 10y ago
        That's a ridiculous interpretation of what I said. Nobody I know has ever had to bludgeon an animal to clean their yard, not even the person whose story spawned this whole thread.
sshconnection 10y ago
Crows, mice, and dolphins perhaps.
selimthegrim 10y ago
Be sure to dispose of your Bruno Maglis elsewhere. Thankfully they're not shiny.
resolaibohp 10y ago
You are right, they are very interesting in their displays of intelligence. One time when I was hunting, there were a group of crows near my camp site. They would come down and investigate where I was staying looking for any scraps of food. As soon as my gun was visible they would all fly several hundred yards away and observe me from a safe distance. Once I put my gun away they would all return back to my camp site to look around. It was very clear they knew exactly what the gun was, and knew to stay clear of it when they saw it. I never thought about crows the same after that.
dghughes 10y ago
Maybe it's because you interfered with the crow's burial ceremony.
jackgavigan 10y ago
> I was already aware of the studies showing that crows recognize individual people and can bear grudges for years. I was afraid that's what I was going to end up with, but after that event, they never bothered me again, and I see crows around my house frequently. This happened about a month ago, right? I think it's far too early to conclude they don't bear a grudge. Those crows you see around your hours are probably surveilling your habits and movements, so they can plan your demise. It's no coincidence that the collective noun for a group of crows is "murder". ;-)
iaw 10y ago
A decade ago I was driving through a quiet street when a crow limped into the middle directly in line with my tire. I slowed and tried to steer around but the guy seemed intent on limping into his own demise. Rolling forward at 5 MPH he disappeared under my car only to dart up at the last moment to a telephone line overhead. I looked in my rear-view mirror out of confusion to find that the crows "limp" was in fact a walnut that he was aligning with my tire for me to crack. Corvids are smarter than I can understand.
- Someone 10y ago
  They're smarter nowadays; they place the nut on zebra crossings with traffic lights, and wait for the light to turn green (possible using 'pedestrians cross the road' as a clue) before hopping onto the road (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGPGknpq3e0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGPGknpq3e0)
  - iaw 10y ago
    In this area there weren't any traffic controls. The level of planning and understanding that corvids demonstrate in most tasks exceeds anything I've seen from even the smartest of dogs. I wish I could know what they were thinking.

by SiVal 10y ago

Unklejoe 10y ago

[They stayed up there and screeched the whole time I was cleaning up (maybe ten minutes).] I probably would have went inside and left the remains to nature. I commend your bravery. It seems like a squad of crows could do some real damage to a person. Also, I can confirm that raccoons are very intelligent. They're basically like dogs but with more "street smarts". I learned this after trying to get one to leave my attic. Also, a side note about Raccoons: be sure not to expose yourself to their droppings (for example, if one is living in your attic, don't go and clean up their droppings without proper protection). They can apparently contain some airborne parasite which can kill you in days if inhaled.

dec0dedab0de 10y ago
It seems like a squad of crows could do some real damage to a person. A group of crows is called a murder, not that it matters, but it fits the theme of the story a bit.
- blastrat 10y ago
  The big list of collective nouns for animals is just a made up thing, sort of like a book of poetry. There are a small number of ye olde Englishe words for some types of groups (like school of fish) and some of the fanciful names from the book have moved into common usage, but the dramatically expanded version is not known to have ever been actually used some info here https://www.macquariedictionary.com.au/resources/view/resource/4/ https://www.macquariedictionary.com.au/resources/view/resour... this is one old source https://archive.org/details/cu31924031031184 https://archive.org/details/cu31924031031184
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
krashnburn200 10y ago
So can mouse poop, but it's extraordinarily rare so no one really worries about it, well no one sane. Err present company excluded ;) http://www.cdc.gov/hantavirus/hps/ http://www.cdc.gov/hantavirus/hps/ It's rare enough that individual cases end up on TV.
- goda90 10y ago
  I took a wilderness survival course in college that included multiple days in the wilderness for the final. In over 40 years there had only been two deaths. One was dehydration due to a stupid fad diet and the other was hantavirus. It looks like the flu until it's too late. So if you are around mice droppings and get flu like symptoms soon after, get to a doctor soon.
  - 10y ago

Spooky23 10y ago

My city has a big flock of them that migrate to another city. Some USDA guys chase them around in a pickup truck when the group gets big and chases them away with strobe lights, lasers, distressed crow sound effects and bottle rockets. When they show up and start settings up, the crows swarm them and poop everywhere. It's pretty crazy.

echelon 10y ago
The USDA deterrent must be crazy to watch. Lasers pointed at crows? Fireworks? I suppose it would be effective, but it sounds wild (and perhaps cruel in the case of fireworks--they're not shooting them at the animals, are they?)
- Spooky23 10y ago
  It is bizarre. The first time I saw it I thought it was just some crazy people. What happens in the fall and winter is that they roost in mass in large trees in large numbers -- I'm talking tens of thousands of birds. We tend to get them in our trees in the morning for some reason, and they aren't as active, so it isn't that big of a deal. But a few blocks away they land in the evening and make a lot of noise -- it's almost like car horns. With the fireworks, they don't aim at them, but almost set them up in a "box" to agitate them. I think the objective is to get them broken up into smaller groups and move off to a less populated area. The freaky thing is the distressed crow noises coming from a PA in the back of the truck.
eggoa 10y ago
The USDA sounds like a shitshow in general. http://harpers.org/archive/2016/03/the-rogue-agency/6/ http://harpers.org/archive/2016/03/the-rogue-agency/6/
- imglorp 10y ago
  In many ways yes, because in effect they represent producers' interests, which are often in opposition to the public's and the country's interests. * Puppy mills fall under USDA regulation, because animals are livestock. The agency has been enabling cruelty on mass scale for years, through failure to police simple standards. http://www.caps-web.org/blogs/our-least-favorite-acronym/ http://www.caps-web.org/blogs/our-least-favorite-acronym/ * Remember the food pyramid? It's been tugged not by science but by grain and meat interests for years. eg, http://www.ruralvotes.com/thebackforty/?p=4805 http://www.ruralvotes.com/thebackforty/?p=4805 * Grazing federal lands (USDA forest service...) is a subsidy for ranchers that damages via erosion and contamination. I'm okay with that but the cost should be borne by the ranchers and reflected in product pricing, not via the taxpayers. * Meat inspection is a joke. Have you eaten any prions (CJD, mad cow) lately? No one knows because we don't require bulk testing. Hormones, antibiotics in the farm runoff? Bacterial resistance? You're paying for that in the long run too. Mor USDA failure to protect the public. * Corruption? Sure: http://www.cornucopia.org/2015/05/latest-usda-scandal-organic-program-dismisses-legal-complaints-targeting-factory-farms-without-investigating/ http://www.cornucopia.org/2015/05/latest-usda-scandal-organi... Not my favorite agency.

glasz 10y ago

surely the crowd would have calmed down if you buried the poor pal. but instead you threw it into the trash can. come on...

guptaneil 10y ago
Burying our dead is a primarily western culture tradition. Many other cultures prefer cremation for example. Why would the birds care how you dispose of the body? It's possible the birds knew OP wasn't the killer and were hoping to intimidate them into leaving the body alone in hopes of catching the real killer, but that's just a guess.
- RaleyField 10y ago
  > It's possible the birds knew OP wasn't the killer and were hoping to intimidate them into leaving the body alone in hopes of catching the real killer, Or the birds remembered the real killer of their fellow crow but then OP showed up and so therefore, ipso facto, he must've killed the crow but they couldn't know both couldn't kill the crow because they are birds so shriek.
- SEJeff 10y ago
  Hmmmm, humans have buried our dead since at least the times of the ancient Egyptians, and likely long before that.

kamaal 10y ago

>>They went so berserk that I thought for sure they would swoop down and peck at me like Alfred Hitchcock's "The Birds", but they didn't. You got lucky. Here in India, crows get electrified all the time and if you try to clean up a good set of crows will peck on you. And trust me I've been pecked once and it hurts real bad, some times it rough enough to make a person bleed.

SEJeff 10y ago
Would it be unreasonable to go at them with a cricket bat if they dive bomb you? Not out of aggression, but self defense.
- Gracana 10y ago
  That doesn't sound anything like self defense.
  - SEJeff 10y ago
    If they are trying to peck you, how is it not self defense?!
    - Gracana 10y ago
      It's entirely unnecessary cruelty. Taking a weapon with you so you can retaliate after you provoke an attack isn't a defensive strategy.
      - andrewflnr 10y ago
        Cleaning up bird corpses near human habitation habitat isn't necessary? You have curious ideas of what's necessary.
        Gracana 10y ago
        That's a ridiculous interpretation of what I said. Nobody I know has ever had to bludgeon an animal to clean their yard, not even the person whose story spawned this whole thread.

sshconnection 10y ago

Crows, mice, and dolphins perhaps.

selimthegrim 10y ago

Be sure to dispose of your Bruno Maglis elsewhere. Thankfully they're not shiny.

resolaibohp 10y ago

You are right, they are very interesting in their displays of intelligence. One time when I was hunting, there were a group of crows near my camp site. They would come down and investigate where I was staying looking for any scraps of food. As soon as my gun was visible they would all fly several hundred yards away and observe me from a safe distance. Once I put my gun away they would all return back to my camp site to look around. It was very clear they knew exactly what the gun was, and knew to stay clear of it when they saw it. I never thought about crows the same after that.

dghughes 10y ago

Maybe it's because you interfered with the crow's burial ceremony.

jackgavigan 10y ago

> I was already aware of the studies showing that crows recognize individual people and can bear grudges for years. I was afraid that's what I was going to end up with, but after that event, they never bothered me again, and I see crows around my house frequently. This happened about a month ago, right? I think it's far too early to conclude they don't bear a grudge. Those crows you see around your hours are probably surveilling your habits and movements, so they can plan your demise. It's no coincidence that the collective noun for a group of crows is "murder". ;-)

iaw 10y ago

A decade ago I was driving through a quiet street when a crow limped into the middle directly in line with my tire. I slowed and tried to steer around but the guy seemed intent on limping into his own demise. Rolling forward at 5 MPH he disappeared under my car only to dart up at the last moment to a telephone line overhead. I looked in my rear-view mirror out of confusion to find that the crows "limp" was in fact a walnut that he was aligning with my tire for me to crack. Corvids are smarter than I can understand.

Someone 10y ago
They're smarter nowadays; they place the nut on zebra crossings with traffic lights, and wait for the light to turn green (possible using 'pedestrians cross the road' as a clue) before hopping onto the road (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGPGknpq3e0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGPGknpq3e0)
- iaw 10y ago
  In this area there weren't any traffic controls. The level of planning and understanding that corvids demonstrate in most tasks exceeds anything I've seen from even the smartest of dogs. I wish I could know what they were thinking.