4 ms·

CrypTech: Making the Internet a Little Bit Safer

59 points by Sami_Lehtinen 10y ago

microcolonel 10y ago
> We hope that a group of interested organizations will offer funding for development, and that the IACR and public sector cryptographers will provide algorithmic advice and wide and open review. I wonder: Do they mean private sector cryptographers ?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- mrmondo 10y ago
  Isn't that what NodeJS developers call themselves now? Jokes aside, I'm assuming they either mean people that build custom encryption into their applications (such as the many messaging apps that we've seen broken over the past few years), or they've worded it somewhat poorly and mean to say 'people that implement cryptography in the private sector'.
- Canada 10y ago
  They mean cryptographers who publish openly. As opposed to cryptographers whose work is classified or otherwise concealed from the public. Not all cryptographers who work in the public sector do so in secret. Not everyone who works in the private sector shares research openly.
- secfirstmd 10y ago
  They should speak to the awesome folks at the Open Tech Fund. https://www.opentech.fund/ https://www.opentech.fund/
hagbarddenstore 10y ago
Soo... How does this solve traffic that happens outside the encrypted network?
pdimitar 10y ago
And, we know these guys' operation isn't a honeypot since NSA has trouble hacking certain more privacy-conscious individuals or organizations... how exactly? I mean, people, let's be real here. Unless you're a hardcore mathematician with programming background in devising crypto algorithms AND you have strong knowledge in signal processing on top of that, how do you know that anything you download/buy in terms of "more private" hardware/software, is actually indeed "more private"? We're at the mercy of people who keep saying "we care about your privacy and security". Everybody is screaming "we are better than the rest!" and all of us are simply left scratching our heads. For all we know, even GNU's guidelines on which crypto algorithms to use might be flawed due to an ingenious and impossible to spot subtle mathematical flaw in the said algorithms. What actual hope do we have?
- dottedmag 10y ago
  Security reviews and the hope that the whole academic field of security researches is not bought a-la-carte by NSA.
  - pdimitar 10y ago
    Cynical and long rant alert: From a psychological standpoint and my own experience, as you grow older, it becomes harder and harder to resist bribes or being bought out to inject vulnerabilities in a software/hardware you work on. Idealism lasts 5 (maximum 10) years of heavy work during which you squander the seemingly infinite energy of your youth, then you become very tired, then you make it worse with coffee, energy drinks and all-nighters, then you destroy several possible relationships and friendships, you become grumpy and cold, and one day you find that you don't care about what's good for the world anymore. You also find yourself staring at your ceiling and wondering WTF are you doing with your life. And unless you're one of the rarer human beings who is actually decisive and has the courage to make a U-turn and change your life to exactly what you want from it, then you'll be stuck for life. Now imagine we fast-forward lots of years later. At 35-45 you no longer care about most (or all) of your youth ideals. All it takes is one phone call or email offering you a 5-digit figure and you're bought out. And if the sum is 6-7 digits then forget about it, you'd sell the entire humankind. We can all pretend to be on high moral thrones but I am sure most people wouldn't think for more than 2 minutes after they receive the said phone call or an email. So at this point, I simply can't believe anyone when they say they really want privacy and security to be enforced and to try and beat NSA & Co. in their own game. I know I want to, if only out of spite and to show them they're not so awesome as they think, but meh, I am not an electric or electronic engineer. I can't reverse-engineer a chip. I can't devise a new chip. I can't isolate equipment in a room and try and check if it emits signals I don't want it to emit. I can't hack the kernel of my Android phone and kill its services who always drain my battery. Basically, I can't do almost anything about it. So I am thinking about it on a human level. Humans are easily bought. If not, they are even easier to threaten.
JoachimSchipper 10y ago
The lack of a chapter "physical security" in their documentation is rather disappointing. There's a few bits on the wiki, but that's it. Physical security - that is, keeping people from just breaking the keys out of your system - is one of the hardest parts of building such a system! One might prefer a Pi with a suitable smartcard attached...
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  "One might prefer a Pi with a suitable smartcard attached..." It's what my pal "Thoth" is essentially working on minus the Pi part. The EAL5-6 rated smartcards have significant effort put into SW protections and tamper-resistance. Not stopping high-end attackers with physical access in all likelihood but might keep out riff raff. He's putting mail and/or file encryption on them to protect keys against host compromise. Tells me the Ledger Blue is the best of the new, more-open ones as they know what Red-Black separation is, implement some of it physically, have trusted path, and act on some feedback. Check it out. EDIT: Given this is open source, I forgot to mention multiple smartcards & SW TCB's can be combined in voter configuration with trusted hardware & software to reduce risk of vendor subversion. Unlikely that all the major vendors would work together or be compromised by same group unless threat profile is too big for most to survive already. :)
marcosdumay 10y ago
Hum... I'm at a loss. I just can not imagine what a "hardware cryptographic engine" does, and how would anybody use one. I'm even more at loss trying to imagine how a specialized device can help "securing email, web, DNSsec, PKIs". Well, for DNSsec I can imagine something, but not the others. Is it to be used as a SSL terminating proxy in front of your services? How could it secure email, for example? How is that goal compatible with not getting "drawn into re-implementation of application protocol layers"?
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  It will help if you understand what HSM's are, why they're used, and where they benefit. Nice intro here: https://markgamache.blogspot.com/2011/05/why-we-use-hardware-security-modules.html https://markgamache.blogspot.com/2011/05/why-we-use-hardware... I'll add that many have tamper-resistance mechanisms of varying security for physical attacks. The better ones also have a trusted path, or dedicated device, for entering PIN's or passwords. The main drawbacks, as link notes, are usability/complexity, closed-source components must be trusted, and very-high cost (eg four, five digits). Projects like this intend to reduce or eliminate effect of those last three.
  - marcosdumay 10y ago
    Thanks. I see it now.

59 points by Sami_Lehtinen 10y ago

> We hope that a group of interested organizations will offer funding for development, and that the IACR and public sector cryptographers will provide algorithmic advice and wide and open review. I wonder: Do they mean private sector cryptographers ?

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
mrmondo 10y ago
Isn't that what NodeJS developers call themselves now? Jokes aside, I'm assuming they either mean people that build custom encryption into their applications (such as the many messaging apps that we've seen broken over the past few years), or they've worded it somewhat poorly and mean to say 'people that implement cryptography in the private sector'.
Canada 10y ago
They mean cryptographers who publish openly. As opposed to cryptographers whose work is classified or otherwise concealed from the public. Not all cryptographers who work in the public sector do so in secret. Not everyone who works in the private sector shares research openly.
secfirstmd 10y ago
They should speak to the awesome folks at the Open Tech Fund. https://www.opentech.fund/ https://www.opentech.fund/

hagbarddenstore 10y ago

Soo... How does this solve traffic that happens outside the encrypted network?

pdimitar 10y ago

And, we know these guys' operation isn't a honeypot since NSA has trouble hacking certain more privacy-conscious individuals or organizations... how exactly? I mean, people, let's be real here. Unless you're a hardcore mathematician with programming background in devising crypto algorithms AND you have strong knowledge in signal processing on top of that, how do you know that anything you download/buy in terms of "more private" hardware/software, is actually indeed "more private"? We're at the mercy of people who keep saying "we care about your privacy and security". Everybody is screaming "we are better than the rest!" and all of us are simply left scratching our heads. For all we know, even GNU's guidelines on which crypto algorithms to use might be flawed due to an ingenious and impossible to spot subtle mathematical flaw in the said algorithms. What actual hope do we have?

dottedmag 10y ago
Security reviews and the hope that the whole academic field of security researches is not bought a-la-carte by NSA.
- pdimitar 10y ago
  Cynical and long rant alert: From a psychological standpoint and my own experience, as you grow older, it becomes harder and harder to resist bribes or being bought out to inject vulnerabilities in a software/hardware you work on. Idealism lasts 5 (maximum 10) years of heavy work during which you squander the seemingly infinite energy of your youth, then you become very tired, then you make it worse with coffee, energy drinks and all-nighters, then you destroy several possible relationships and friendships, you become grumpy and cold, and one day you find that you don't care about what's good for the world anymore. You also find yourself staring at your ceiling and wondering WTF are you doing with your life. And unless you're one of the rarer human beings who is actually decisive and has the courage to make a U-turn and change your life to exactly what you want from it, then you'll be stuck for life. Now imagine we fast-forward lots of years later. At 35-45 you no longer care about most (or all) of your youth ideals. All it takes is one phone call or email offering you a 5-digit figure and you're bought out. And if the sum is 6-7 digits then forget about it, you'd sell the entire humankind. We can all pretend to be on high moral thrones but I am sure most people wouldn't think for more than 2 minutes after they receive the said phone call or an email. So at this point, I simply can't believe anyone when they say they really want privacy and security to be enforced and to try and beat NSA & Co. in their own game. I know I want to, if only out of spite and to show them they're not so awesome as they think, but meh, I am not an electric or electronic engineer. I can't reverse-engineer a chip. I can't devise a new chip. I can't isolate equipment in a room and try and check if it emits signals I don't want it to emit. I can't hack the kernel of my Android phone and kill its services who always drain my battery. Basically, I can't do almost anything about it. So I am thinking about it on a human level. Humans are easily bought. If not, they are even easier to threaten.

JoachimSchipper 10y ago

The lack of a chapter "physical security" in their documentation is rather disappointing. There's a few bits on the wiki, but that's it. Physical security - that is, keeping people from just breaking the keys out of your system - is one of the hardest parts of building such a system! One might prefer a Pi with a suitable smartcard attached...

nickpsecurity 10y ago
"One might prefer a Pi with a suitable smartcard attached..." It's what my pal "Thoth" is essentially working on minus the Pi part. The EAL5-6 rated smartcards have significant effort put into SW protections and tamper-resistance. Not stopping high-end attackers with physical access in all likelihood but might keep out riff raff. He's putting mail and/or file encryption on them to protect keys against host compromise. Tells me the Ledger Blue is the best of the new, more-open ones as they know what Red-Black separation is, implement some of it physically, have trusted path, and act on some feedback. Check it out. EDIT: Given this is open source, I forgot to mention multiple smartcards & SW TCB's can be combined in voter configuration with trusted hardware & software to reduce risk of vendor subversion. Unlikely that all the major vendors would work together or be compromised by same group unless threat profile is too big for most to survive already. :)

marcosdumay 10y ago

Hum... I'm at a loss. I just can not imagine what a "hardware cryptographic engine" does, and how would anybody use one. I'm even more at loss trying to imagine how a specialized device can help "securing email, web, DNSsec, PKIs". Well, for DNSsec I can imagine something, but not the others. Is it to be used as a SSL terminating proxy in front of your services? How could it secure email, for example? How is that goal compatible with not getting "drawn into re-implementation of application protocol layers"?

nickpsecurity 10y ago
It will help if you understand what HSM's are, why they're used, and where they benefit. Nice intro here: https://markgamache.blogspot.com/2011/05/why-we-use-hardware-security-modules.html https://markgamache.blogspot.com/2011/05/why-we-use-hardware... I'll add that many have tamper-resistance mechanisms of varying security for physical attacks. The better ones also have a trusted path, or dedicated device, for entering PIN's or passwords. The main drawbacks, as link notes, are usability/complexity, closed-source components must be trusted, and very-high cost (eg four, five digits). Projects like this intend to reduce or eliminate effect of those last three.
- marcosdumay 10y ago
  Thanks. I see it now.