7 ms·

But if Millennials are earning less money, who will pay for socialism?

sanderjd 10y ago
I'm not suggesting that I'm in favor of this, but the idea is that the country has plenty of wealth, it is just concentrated in older generations who were able to build it through decades of economic largesse, so, well, that's who should should be paying for it.
- meritt 10y ago
  And I'm still not clear on how taxing the shit out of everyday working citizens somehow redistributes the wealth which is already hoarded by the 0.1%.
  - aioprisan 10y ago
    Well we could start with some common sense tax reform, like not letting anything above $112k not be taxable for social security, a system through which old people are living off the backs of the young and straddling them with debts for services they will never see themselves - a ponzi scheme
    - meritt 10y ago
      Wait are you for increasing the SS cap (which is 118.5k btw) or just eliminating it entirely?
      - aioprisan 10y ago
        I think having no cap on income for SS would make sense and make the system solvent - so basically, cut a tax only for the wealthy retired folks living off of backs of young folks, who are not exempt and they will never get there by subsidizing old folks in exchange for interest payments on private loans in the 7% range.
        meritt 10y ago
        But the super wealthy -- the ones the Sanders crowd really dislike -- don't tend to have earned income anyway. They primarily benefit from capital gains which are entirely exempt from SS and Medicare entirely.
        aioprisan 10y ago
        There's still a huge gap from $112 to having income in long term capital gains tax. Just because there are more things to do with capital gains tax reform, doesn't mean we can't have common sense reforms like this one.
        seanmcdirmid 10y ago
        That would make SS a tax which it isn't supposed to be right now.
        aioprisan 10y ago
        SS IS a tax, when you have a dedicated line item in your paycheck. I would like to see some benefit down the line from that tax, wouldn't you?
    - patrickg_zill 10y ago
      People who are capable of earning greater than $112k a year are probably capable of changing the way they're compensated in order to avoid the higher SS rate.
  - flomo 10y ago
    I've realized it's pretty much pointless, and here's why. There's a bunch of people who don't really pay taxes and don't understand how wealth and taxes work. But they have to file a 1040 every year, so when you talk about taxes they think "income taxes". If you mention "capital gains", mostly their eyes just rollover because they can't conceptualize even what you are talking about. They just don't understand they are agitating against hardworking doctors, lawyers, engineers, small business owners, and etc., while giving the people who do nothing but open an envelope every month a pass. They are probably 'useful' in a sense.
    - HighPlainsDrftr 10y ago
      Hardly man. I'm a small business owner. I pay a hell of alot in income taxes. I have invested money. The thing is - we all use our resources in this country. We all use the roads, the land, the water, the minerals, and every other item out there. My company probably uses more than the average person. It should be taxed at least equally - if not more as a result. I have a bunch of people that drive all over the place. They write on paper. Many miles of roads are used slightly because of them. Paper is produced for them to write on. My grandma has never drove a day in her life - and at 95 still walks everywhere she needs to. She makes pennies on the thousand dollar compared to me. Taxes provide infrastructure and resources. The poor are overly taxed.
      - marknutter 10y ago
        Roads roads roads. It's always roads that people bring up when defending socialism. Look up how much our roads cost to maintain and compare it to our entitlements spending and you'll get a better understanding of what socialism looks like. There's not a capitalist alive who isn't comfortable paying taxes for roads.
        Neeek 10y ago
        Ok then, what about the health of your consumers (not just medically)? Is the community at large not an asset we all tap in to every day? People have noticed that there is a growing portion of that asset that can't contribute as well as they could. Namely because of difficulties acquiring education, healthcare and financial security.
  - michaelchisari 10y ago
    Terms to investigate: Multiplier Effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplier_(economics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplier_(economics) Velocity of Money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_of_money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_of_money
    - damptowel 10y ago
      I'll add... Sectoral Balance Identity https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectoral_balances https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectoral_balances Endogenous Money Creation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endogenous_money https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endogenous_money http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1057521915001477 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1057521915...
  - boondaburrah 10y ago
    I live in taxachusetts and really enjoy not having to worry about healthcare and having an (albeit poorly) functioning public transit system with real subways. It... actually seems to work out guys.
damptowel 10y ago
That's the same as asking who will pay for laissez faire statism, so inconsequential.

I'm not suggesting that I'm in favor of this, but the idea is that the country has plenty of wealth, it is just concentrated in older generations who were able to build it through decades of economic largesse, so, well, that's who should should be paying for it.

meritt 10y ago
And I'm still not clear on how taxing the shit out of everyday working citizens somehow redistributes the wealth which is already hoarded by the 0.1%.
- aioprisan 10y ago
  Well we could start with some common sense tax reform, like not letting anything above $112k not be taxable for social security, a system through which old people are living off the backs of the young and straddling them with debts for services they will never see themselves - a ponzi scheme
  - meritt 10y ago
    Wait are you for increasing the SS cap (which is 118.5k btw) or just eliminating it entirely?
    - aioprisan 10y ago
      I think having no cap on income for SS would make sense and make the system solvent - so basically, cut a tax only for the wealthy retired folks living off of backs of young folks, who are not exempt and they will never get there by subsidizing old folks in exchange for interest payments on private loans in the 7% range.
      - meritt 10y ago
        But the super wealthy -- the ones the Sanders crowd really dislike -- don't tend to have earned income anyway. They primarily benefit from capital gains which are entirely exempt from SS and Medicare entirely.
        aioprisan 10y ago
        There's still a huge gap from $112 to having income in long term capital gains tax. Just because there are more things to do with capital gains tax reform, doesn't mean we can't have common sense reforms like this one.
      - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
        That would make SS a tax which it isn't supposed to be right now.
        aioprisan 10y ago
        SS IS a tax, when you have a dedicated line item in your paycheck. I would like to see some benefit down the line from that tax, wouldn't you?
  - patrickg_zill 10y ago
    People who are capable of earning greater than $112k a year are probably capable of changing the way they're compensated in order to avoid the higher SS rate.
- flomo 10y ago
  I've realized it's pretty much pointless, and here's why. There's a bunch of people who don't really pay taxes and don't understand how wealth and taxes work. But they have to file a 1040 every year, so when you talk about taxes they think "income taxes". If you mention "capital gains", mostly their eyes just rollover because they can't conceptualize even what you are talking about. They just don't understand they are agitating against hardworking doctors, lawyers, engineers, small business owners, and etc., while giving the people who do nothing but open an envelope every month a pass. They are probably 'useful' in a sense.
  - HighPlainsDrftr 10y ago
    Hardly man. I'm a small business owner. I pay a hell of alot in income taxes. I have invested money. The thing is - we all use our resources in this country. We all use the roads, the land, the water, the minerals, and every other item out there. My company probably uses more than the average person. It should be taxed at least equally - if not more as a result. I have a bunch of people that drive all over the place. They write on paper. Many miles of roads are used slightly because of them. Paper is produced for them to write on. My grandma has never drove a day in her life - and at 95 still walks everywhere she needs to. She makes pennies on the thousand dollar compared to me. Taxes provide infrastructure and resources. The poor are overly taxed.
    - marknutter 10y ago
      Roads roads roads. It's always roads that people bring up when defending socialism. Look up how much our roads cost to maintain and compare it to our entitlements spending and you'll get a better understanding of what socialism looks like. There's not a capitalist alive who isn't comfortable paying taxes for roads.
      - Neeek 10y ago
        Ok then, what about the health of your consumers (not just medically)? Is the community at large not an asset we all tap in to every day? People have noticed that there is a growing portion of that asset that can't contribute as well as they could. Namely because of difficulties acquiring education, healthcare and financial security.
- michaelchisari 10y ago
  Terms to investigate: Multiplier Effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplier_(economics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplier_(economics) Velocity of Money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_of_money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_of_money
  - damptowel 10y ago
    I'll add... Sectoral Balance Identity https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectoral_balances https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectoral_balances Endogenous Money Creation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endogenous_money https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endogenous_money http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1057521915001477 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1057521915...
- boondaburrah 10y ago
  I live in taxachusetts and really enjoy not having to worry about healthcare and having an (albeit poorly) functioning public transit system with real subways. It... actually seems to work out guys.

damptowel 10y ago

That's the same as asking who will pay for laissez faire statism, so inconsequential.