8 ms·

Turkish Military’s Influence Rises Again

160 points by jbarciauskas 10y ago

bitchypat 10y ago
Weird timing: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/turkey-low-flying-jets-and-gunfire-heard-in-ankara1/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/turkey-low-flying...
- chvid 10y ago
  Incredible and pretty freighting too. NATO member, EU associate.
  - ZanyProgrammer 10y ago
    This isn't the first coup Turkey has had, and NATO survived.
    - chvid 10y ago
      It is not 1975 anymore.
      - jychang 10y ago
        The last military coup in Turkey was in 1997. They're in the business of doing this stuff.
        oblio 10y ago
        The Wikipedia page for the 1997 one is bordering between hilarious and amazing: > At the National Security Council (MGK) meeting on 28 February 1997, the generals submitted their views on issues regarding secularism and political Islam on Turkey to the government. The MGK made several decisions during this meeting, and Prime Minister Necmettin Erbakan from the Welfare Party was forced to sign the decisions, some of which were: * Eight years of primary school education * Shutting down many religious schools opened during his term * Abolition of Tarikats (sectarian groups) I'd be expecting those demands from a liberal group, not the military! :)
        usrusr 10y ago
        A.k.a. the most well armed constitutional court on the planet. Given the rate at which Erdogan has supposedly already replaced kemalists in the military leadership, i wonder if this might actually be a false flag operation to lure the last remaining critics into the light and in front of courts. That would certainly be an effective way to finally break any risk of armed defense of the constitution.
      - mveety 10y ago
        I don't see how it's any different now for the army to seize power.
      - chvid 10y ago
        (Or maybe it is ...) Isn't Erdogan noturious for consolidating his power by putting his people in all branches of government including the military? Is all of the military loyal to the coup makers? If the connections between Erdogan and Islamic State are real; then ousting Erdogan through a coup sends more powerful people, money, public sympathy in the way of IS.
  - tormeh 10y ago
    I'm less scared of a coup than I am of Erdogan turning into a Putinesque figure. I know strongmen are fashionable right now, but I don't really like that trend. The military and old elite in Turkey are very corrupt, but they've never squashed freedom of press the same way Erdogan has. If you believe in personal liberty, the military is actually better than the democratically elected strongman, however absurd that sounds.
  - venomsnake 10y ago
    And NATO membership is the reason we must Turkey urgently needs a coup. Authoritarian Islamist that US is obliged to protect is too much. I am almost sure it has the blessing of Washington. Also Erdogan wormed his relations with Putin recently.
    - rurban 10y ago
      Not only Washington. Whole Europe was waiting for this to happen to restore the constitution.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - syngrog66 10y ago
    and the US supposedly keeps nukes on Turkish soil at the Incirlik air base, as part of its NATO role. it seems incredibly unwise to me, given its a Muslim country bordering ISIS, Syria, Iraq. and its a Muslim country with a known history of coups. a messy/failed coup attempt could degrade into a civil war, or, continuing anarchy. in such a situation, I can picture scenarios where the US nukes at Incirlik fall into the hands of... people who may wish us harm. For example, ISIS or another terror group. I think the US gov does lots of dangerously irresponsible things, this is just the latest example of one of them being brought into sharp focus.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- mikeash 10y ago
  For sure. My first reaction to the headline was, "That sure is a subtle and coy way to talk about a coup."
  - krapp 10y ago
    This thread is probably going to wind up being the containment thread for that subject because of it. Given that this is an event of legitimate importance to some people here (albeit an off topic subject for HN) I would personally encourage people to leave this specific thread alone and hide it rather than flag it, since it's flown under the radar (and every other thread is bound to be flagged to oblivion.)
    - tremon 10y ago
      What's the rationale behind flagging stories like this? While it may be off-topic as tech news, in my eyes the HN community is quite cosmopolitan and threads like these usually end up being quite interesting and informative for me.
      - krapp 10y ago
        Being off-topic is reason enough. Purely political stories like this can overwhelm the site if not dealt with quickly. Hacker News just isn't the proper venue for mainstream news. edit: looks like the mods unflagged https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12103575 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12103575
      - DanBC 10y ago
        > While it may be off-topic as tech news, On / Off topic isn't about how much tech is in the story. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - ced 10y ago
    "Updated May 15, 2016 7:37 p.m. ET". What's weird is that we're discussing a two months-old article on current events. I suppose it's useful background knowledge...
- RockyMcNuts 10y ago
  also Turkey’s Army Says It Seized Power as Premier Vows to Resist http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-15/turkish-premier-says-elements-of-army-attempt-to-seize-power http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-15/turkish-pr...
Animats 10y ago
There's a military coup underway in Turkey right now.[1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12103575 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12103575
- low_battery 10y ago
  I hope they will fail. The worst democratic government is many times better than military rule.
  - ecopoesis 10y ago
    Even democratic government that was turning towards religious extremism, routinely shut down freedom of speech and press, and was well down the path to turning into classic strongman dictatorship?
    - low_battery 10y ago
      The military in turn, in past coups, hanged hundreds of people including a prime minister, oppressed press and public in much worse ways. Turkey still has a functioning democracy, true, current government is shit, but they but your portrayal is actually inaccurate. Military coups / rule is horrible. They only bring terrible pain to people.
      - selimthegrim 10y ago
        And Menderes arranging pogroms on minorities and stealing their money was a good thing?
        low_battery 10y ago
        You are parroting the same stuff Junta did at the time.
        selimthegrim 10y ago
dzlobin 10y ago
Should be noted this was published 2 months ago.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
simonsarris 10y ago
Ataturk (first President of Turkey) was an officer and fiercely wanted Turkey to be secular. It seems more or less a rule for the Military to force elections if the head of state gets too Islamic. > The military has had a record of intervening in politics. Indeed, it assumed power for several periods in the latter half of the 20th century. It executed coups d'état in 1960, in 1971, and in 1980. Most recently, it maneuvered the removal of an Islamic-oriented prime minister, Necmettin Erbakan, in 1997. > On 27 April 2007, in advance of 4 November 2007 presidential election, and in reaction to the politics of Abdullah Gül, who has a past record of involvement in Islamist political movements and banned Islamist parties such as the Welfare Party, the army issued a statement of its interests. It said that the army is a party to "arguments" regarding secularism; that Islamism ran counter to the secular nature of the Turkish Republic, and to the legacy of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. The Army's statement ended with a clear warning that the Turkish Armed Forces stood ready to intervene if the secular nature of the Turkish Constitution is compromised, stating that "the Turkish Armed Forces maintain their sound determination to carry out their duties stemming from laws to protect the unchangeable characteristics of the Republic of Turkey. Their loyalty to this determination is absolute. From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Turkey#Military_involvement_in_politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Turkey#Military_in...
- digi_owl 10y ago
  Making Turkey a bit odd, in that elsewhere the army seems to be the first to side with the religious people (no matter the religion involved).
  - dragontamer 10y ago
    Isn't Egypt's military also largely secular?
    - raincom 10y ago
      How about Pakistan's army? Secular or religious?
chinathrow 10y ago
The context is the ongoing coup. https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-coup-attempt-military-gunfire-ankara?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tweet https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-co...
hasenj 10y ago
Somewhat offtopic, but a tip when reading Turkish names: 'c' is pronounced 'j'. Recep -> Rejep Necmettin -> Nejmettin etc
- tremon 10y ago
  But "j" as in [dz] right (as in "jest"), not [j] (as in "yes")?
  - hasenj 10y ago
    I'm not aware of "j" being read as "y". So I guess, yea, "j" as in John.
    - tremon 10y ago
      Maybe I'm just relying too much on IPA conventions :) "j" is a silent consonant in all Roman and Germanic languages (i.e. most of mainland Europe). It's only in English that "y" has taken over that role (otherwise, "y" is a vowel -- like in English words ending in -ey). The symbol "j" has that same silent role in IPA, that's why I was confused: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approximant_consonant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approximant_consonant
- nerfhammer 10y ago
  Isn't Erdogan pronounced Erdo'an also?
mschuster91 10y ago
Finally, a coup. Not that I particularly like coups, but I believe that a coup was and is the only way to get that Islamistic dictator Erdogan off his post. On a sidenote, one of the conflict parties has blocked access to the major social networks; it is yet unclear who did it. If anyone here is in Turkey, use TOR, it is reported to work.
diegoperini 10y ago
Typing from Turkey right now. It feels quite weird to experience such event. I suggest dear HN people to cancel their flights to Turkey.
- chinathrow 10y ago
  Can you report on any news/social media blocking going on?
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    It seems to be confirmed news. It also seems it is DNS, so 8.8.8.8 works to bypass the block. I guess it will be pretty effective, but vaguely technical users will still be able to communicate.
  - diegoperini 10y ago
    Social media is quite slow, some news sites are innaccessible. Using Hotspot Shield to bypass any possible blocking. Latest installed legislation granted the government to slow down/entirely block any destination IP they want without notice.
- tremon 10y ago
  Best wishes to you and your family.
  - diegoperini 10y ago
    Thank you everyone. Everybody close to me is currently OK. We bought enough food and water stock just in case. It is currently forbidden to go outside by official announcement from the army officials. Let's see what happens.
- jventura 10y ago
  First of all, I really hope everything is ok with you and your family! I was in southern Turkey in 2010, and one thing that did felt "strange" back then was the ban of sites like youtube. That is plain unacceptable for a modern state at the door of Europe. I guess that's what happens when religion gets mixed with politics and people think that they know what is best for you! There's currently limited information, but I really hope that things turn out for the best there!
smegel 10y ago
Might as well rip up that EU application.
- tremon 10y ago
  Actually, if true, this might re-open the EU application. It was Erdogan that was moving away from Europe.
- damptowel 10y ago
  I think those EU applications are mostly a front for Nato expansionism...
arca_vorago 10y ago
How about any mention of Sibel Edmonds claims that Turkey has been operating an intelligence apparatus in the US to overtly and covertly support them, often through blackmail. Or the fact that many they were actively trying to turn doubles in our surveillance engine? “The Government of Turkey had illegally infiltrated and influenced various U.S. government institutions and officials, including the Department of State, the Department of Defense, and individual members of the United States Congress.” I suppose I shouldn't expect journalism from the wsj. Edit: Sibel Edmonds called it 6 months ago: https://youtu.be/OxvPfWkYyUo https://youtu.be/OxvPfWkYyUo
getgoingnow 10y ago
Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg
runarb 10y ago
The Turkish president Erdoğan is on holiday outside the country acording to https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-coup-attempt-military-gunfire-ankara?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tweet https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-co... I am sitting at Bodrum airport located southwestern in Turkey when writing this. Everything is quiet here and the planes apear to go as normal.
BurningFrog 10y ago
Turkey seems to have a weird "two party system", where every decade or two power shifts between the military and the politicians. Not something anyone would design, but seems to work better than most countries in the region.
madethemcry 10y ago
This article is so very much irrelevant. Read this instead: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/turkey-low-flying-jets-and-gunfire-heard-in-ankara1/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/turkey-low-flying... Something huge is happening. EVERYBODY in Turkey is watching the news at the moment. The military is rushing in every major news station, there are battles between the police and the military, every flight in istanbul is cancelled and the two bridges to europe in istanbul are closed by the military. So much going on. I don't know if the people there are happy, unsure or feared of the situation. BUT: it's a weird coup: no massive presence of the military on the street like you would suspect. Just at some major places like the palace in ankara and the mentioned bridges. To repeat me. This is by far the best newsfeed in english: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/turkey-low-flying-jets-and-gunfire-heard-in-ankara1/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/turkey-low-flying... Still a huge lag to the turkish sources but at least.. I for myself get my news and information from good friends and their whatsapp groups. And it is so terrifying.
- mhandley 10y ago
  Pretty good rolling coverage on the BBC now too: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-36811357 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-36811357
- MisterWebz 10y ago
  Turkey’s recent-to-the-job prime minister, Binali Yildirim, announced: “I am sure that we will return ties with Syria to normal, we need it. We normalized our relations with Israel and Russia. I’m sure we will go back to normal relations with Syria as well.” The prime minister said this a couple of days ago. A huge shift in policy and now suddenly a coup. I'm guessing Erdogan saw the writing on the wall and tried to shift gears, but it seems the military went ahead with the coup anyway.
- curiousgal 10y ago
  Sky News Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg
- wslh 10y ago
anonymousguy 10y ago
This could always happen in the US. US military officers swear an oath to defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic, but they don't swear an oath to other officers or elected officials. That said if an elected president violates the constitution the US military could qualify a military coup to restore law. Many posters in here indicate oddness that a military force could represent secularism. I am curious why that is. Most uniformed militaries I have observed have always seemed more secular than the people they represent. Let us not forget the Islamic Brotherhood was democratically elected in Egypt, which attempted to instill sharia law. A military coup ended that nonsense. Also, Hitler was democratically elected and was not immediately supported by the military.
- stonogo 10y ago
  The Knox laws are still in force. There is no legal framework for an American military coup, setting aside that the Commander in Chief is an elected office.
  - niftich 10y ago
    Not to be pedantic, but the entire mechanism of coups d'état is that you step outside the legal framework and instead use intimidation and force. If you fail, it's very, very often fatal. If you succeed, you retrofit some sketchy legal justification, or ignore the matter altogether.
    - stonogo 10y ago
      Part of running a coup in a democratic country is that your ground troops have to be on your side. This is much more difficult when every single soldier is made completely aware during indoctrination that domestic military action is almost completely illegal. Adding in the fact that there is no conscription in America, the likelihood of a military coup today is vanishingly small.
  - civilian 10y ago
    What are the Knox laws? Google isn't pulling anything except this http://www.knox.army.mil/garrison/dhr/asd/docs/regs/r190-5.pdf http://www.knox.army.mil/garrison/dhr/asd/docs/regs/r190-5.p...
Animats 10y ago
Live stream on Sky.[1] Probably the source getting the fastest updates. Video. Army now controls airports, bridges, and TV station. HN article on coup flagged.[2] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12103575 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12103575
Animats 10y ago
Army winning the PR war. Army has the Government TV station. President trying to get through on Facetime. Twitter and Facebook down. Coverage from central square in Istanbul via Skype. Update: Government TV station off air. President calling on people to take to the streets. Military declaring curfew. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg
tim333 10y ago
sky live video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg
Animats 10y ago
People at airport cheering and waving Turkey flags. Unclear which side they're cheering.
rdl 10y ago
Must be an exciting day for the US forces guarding our nuclear bombs stored at Incirlik airbase.
- mschuster91 10y ago
  Well, there are at least 250 German soldiers on base, too. I hope they don't get drawn into that mess.
baby 10y ago
It's interesting that all the posts on the terrorist attack in Nice(, France) yesterday were flagged on HN and this one is not. If you want to get away from live/sensational news, rumors and dangerous debates it makes sense to wait a few days before starting a discussion on the subject. So why moderating the french attack and not this?
- baby 10y ago
  dang?
  - DanBC 10y ago
    If you want mods (dang or sctb) to answer you need to email them. There are way too many comments for them to read them all.
drinchev 10y ago
> Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan urged people to take to the streets to protest against what he described as a coup attempt by a minority faction within the military, vowing that it would meet with a "necessary response", Reuters reports. Such an asshole. People fighting against military. Is this what he wants to happen in order to continue his dictatorship?
- enraged_camel 10y ago
  Yep. I mean this is the guy who built himself a palace with 1000 rooms (using taxpayer money) because he thought he deserved it.
mehmetkose 10y ago
fuck fuck fuck! fuck you all military people. we'll fight. there never should'nt be army in any country.
mocko 10y ago
I just tried to submit https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-coup-attempt-military-gunfire-ankara https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-co... and rather than upvoting an existing submission like usual, HN tells me "Message Sorry, that story was previously submitted". What's with that?
sctb 10y ago
Since the interest here is clearly about the coup attempt underway, we've unflagged this post about that: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12103575 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12103575.
- sujal99 10y ago
  Why yesterday's Paris attack was hushed/flagged in this forum?
  - detaro 10y ago
    this discussion might provide answers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12099254 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12099254 (flagging is done by users)
rsp1984 10y ago
I wonder if Russia plays any role in this. It wasn't long ago that Moscow and Ankara were quarreling over a Russian jet that's been shut down in November by Turkish forces. Then recently there was a reconciliation but it happened a bit too quickly in the eyes of many observers.

160 points by jbarciauskas 10y ago

Weird timing: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/turkey-low-flying-jets-and-gunfire-heard-in-ankara1/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/turkey-low-flying...

chvid 10y ago
Incredible and pretty freighting too. NATO member, EU associate.
- ZanyProgrammer 10y ago
  This isn't the first coup Turkey has had, and NATO survived.
  - chvid 10y ago
    It is not 1975 anymore.
    - jychang 10y ago
      The last military coup in Turkey was in 1997. They're in the business of doing this stuff.
      - oblio 10y ago
        The Wikipedia page for the 1997 one is bordering between hilarious and amazing: > At the National Security Council (MGK) meeting on 28 February 1997, the generals submitted their views on issues regarding secularism and political Islam on Turkey to the government. The MGK made several decisions during this meeting, and Prime Minister Necmettin Erbakan from the Welfare Party was forced to sign the decisions, some of which were: * Eight years of primary school education * Shutting down many religious schools opened during his term * Abolition of Tarikats (sectarian groups) I'd be expecting those demands from a liberal group, not the military! :)
      - usrusr 10y ago
        A.k.a. the most well armed constitutional court on the planet. Given the rate at which Erdogan has supposedly already replaced kemalists in the military leadership, i wonder if this might actually be a false flag operation to lure the last remaining critics into the light and in front of courts. That would certainly be an effective way to finally break any risk of armed defense of the constitution.
    - mveety 10y ago
      I don't see how it's any different now for the army to seize power.
    - chvid 10y ago
      (Or maybe it is ...) Isn't Erdogan noturious for consolidating his power by putting his people in all branches of government including the military? Is all of the military loyal to the coup makers? If the connections between Erdogan and Islamic State are real; then ousting Erdogan through a coup sends more powerful people, money, public sympathy in the way of IS.
- tormeh 10y ago
  I'm less scared of a coup than I am of Erdogan turning into a Putinesque figure. I know strongmen are fashionable right now, but I don't really like that trend. The military and old elite in Turkey are very corrupt, but they've never squashed freedom of press the same way Erdogan has. If you believe in personal liberty, the military is actually better than the democratically elected strongman, however absurd that sounds.
- venomsnake 10y ago
  And NATO membership is the reason we must Turkey urgently needs a coup. Authoritarian Islamist that US is obliged to protect is too much. I am almost sure it has the blessing of Washington. Also Erdogan wormed his relations with Putin recently.
  - rurban 10y ago
    Not only Washington. Whole Europe was waiting for this to happen to restore the constitution.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- syngrog66 10y ago
  and the US supposedly keeps nukes on Turkish soil at the Incirlik air base, as part of its NATO role. it seems incredibly unwise to me, given its a Muslim country bordering ISIS, Syria, Iraq. and its a Muslim country with a known history of coups. a messy/failed coup attempt could degrade into a civil war, or, continuing anarchy. in such a situation, I can picture scenarios where the US nukes at Incirlik fall into the hands of... people who may wish us harm. For example, ISIS or another terror group. I think the US gov does lots of dangerously irresponsible things, this is just the latest example of one of them being brought into sharp focus.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
mikeash 10y ago
For sure. My first reaction to the headline was, "That sure is a subtle and coy way to talk about a coup."
- krapp 10y ago
  This thread is probably going to wind up being the containment thread for that subject because of it. Given that this is an event of legitimate importance to some people here (albeit an off topic subject for HN) I would personally encourage people to leave this specific thread alone and hide it rather than flag it, since it's flown under the radar (and every other thread is bound to be flagged to oblivion.)
  - tremon 10y ago
    What's the rationale behind flagging stories like this? While it may be off-topic as tech news, in my eyes the HN community is quite cosmopolitan and threads like these usually end up being quite interesting and informative for me.
    - krapp 10y ago
      Being off-topic is reason enough. Purely political stories like this can overwhelm the site if not dealt with quickly. Hacker News just isn't the proper venue for mainstream news. edit: looks like the mods unflagged https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12103575 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12103575
    - DanBC 10y ago
      > While it may be off-topic as tech news, On / Off topic isn't about how much tech is in the story. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- ced 10y ago
  "Updated May 15, 2016 7:37 p.m. ET". What's weird is that we're discussing a two months-old article on current events. I suppose it's useful background knowledge...
RockyMcNuts 10y ago
also Turkey’s Army Says It Seized Power as Premier Vows to Resist http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-15/turkish-premier-says-elements-of-army-attempt-to-seize-power http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-15/turkish-pr...

Animats 10y ago

There's a military coup underway in Turkey right now.[1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12103575 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12103575

low_battery 10y ago
I hope they will fail. The worst democratic government is many times better than military rule.
- ecopoesis 10y ago
  Even democratic government that was turning towards religious extremism, routinely shut down freedom of speech and press, and was well down the path to turning into classic strongman dictatorship?
  - low_battery 10y ago
    The military in turn, in past coups, hanged hundreds of people including a prime minister, oppressed press and public in much worse ways. Turkey still has a functioning democracy, true, current government is shit, but they but your portrayal is actually inaccurate. Military coups / rule is horrible. They only bring terrible pain to people.
    - selimthegrim 10y ago
      And Menderes arranging pogroms on minorities and stealing their money was a good thing?
      - low_battery 10y ago
        You are parroting the same stuff Junta did at the time.
        selimthegrim 10y ago

dzlobin 10y ago

Should be noted this was published 2 months ago.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

simonsarris 10y ago

Ataturk (first President of Turkey) was an officer and fiercely wanted Turkey to be secular. It seems more or less a rule for the Military to force elections if the head of state gets too Islamic. > The military has had a record of intervening in politics. Indeed, it assumed power for several periods in the latter half of the 20th century. It executed coups d'état in 1960, in 1971, and in 1980. Most recently, it maneuvered the removal of an Islamic-oriented prime minister, Necmettin Erbakan, in 1997. > On 27 April 2007, in advance of 4 November 2007 presidential election, and in reaction to the politics of Abdullah Gül, who has a past record of involvement in Islamist political movements and banned Islamist parties such as the Welfare Party, the army issued a statement of its interests. It said that the army is a party to "arguments" regarding secularism; that Islamism ran counter to the secular nature of the Turkish Republic, and to the legacy of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. The Army's statement ended with a clear warning that the Turkish Armed Forces stood ready to intervene if the secular nature of the Turkish Constitution is compromised, stating that "the Turkish Armed Forces maintain their sound determination to carry out their duties stemming from laws to protect the unchangeable characteristics of the Republic of Turkey. Their loyalty to this determination is absolute. From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Turkey#Military_involvement_in_politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Turkey#Military_in...

digi_owl 10y ago
Making Turkey a bit odd, in that elsewhere the army seems to be the first to side with the religious people (no matter the religion involved).
- dragontamer 10y ago
  Isn't Egypt's military also largely secular?
  - raincom 10y ago
    How about Pakistan's army? Secular or religious?

chinathrow 10y ago

The context is the ongoing coup. https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-coup-attempt-military-gunfire-ankara?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tweet https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-co...

hasenj 10y ago

Somewhat offtopic, but a tip when reading Turkish names: 'c' is pronounced 'j'. Recep -> Rejep Necmettin -> Nejmettin etc

tremon 10y ago
But "j" as in [dz] right (as in "jest"), not [j] (as in "yes")?
- hasenj 10y ago
  I'm not aware of "j" being read as "y". So I guess, yea, "j" as in John.
  - tremon 10y ago
    Maybe I'm just relying too much on IPA conventions :) "j" is a silent consonant in all Roman and Germanic languages (i.e. most of mainland Europe). It's only in English that "y" has taken over that role (otherwise, "y" is a vowel -- like in English words ending in -ey). The symbol "j" has that same silent role in IPA, that's why I was confused: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approximant_consonant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approximant_consonant
nerfhammer 10y ago
Isn't Erdogan pronounced Erdo'an also?

mschuster91 10y ago

Finally, a coup. Not that I particularly like coups, but I believe that a coup was and is the only way to get that Islamistic dictator Erdogan off his post. On a sidenote, one of the conflict parties has blocked access to the major social networks; it is yet unclear who did it. If anyone here is in Turkey, use TOR, it is reported to work.

diegoperini 10y ago

Typing from Turkey right now. It feels quite weird to experience such event. I suggest dear HN people to cancel their flights to Turkey.

chinathrow 10y ago
Can you report on any news/social media blocking going on?
- maxerickson 10y ago
  It seems to be confirmed news. It also seems it is DNS, so 8.8.8.8 works to bypass the block. I guess it will be pretty effective, but vaguely technical users will still be able to communicate.
- diegoperini 10y ago
  Social media is quite slow, some news sites are innaccessible. Using Hotspot Shield to bypass any possible blocking. Latest installed legislation granted the government to slow down/entirely block any destination IP they want without notice.
tremon 10y ago
Best wishes to you and your family.
- diegoperini 10y ago
  Thank you everyone. Everybody close to me is currently OK. We bought enough food and water stock just in case. It is currently forbidden to go outside by official announcement from the army officials. Let's see what happens.
jventura 10y ago
First of all, I really hope everything is ok with you and your family! I was in southern Turkey in 2010, and one thing that did felt "strange" back then was the ban of sites like youtube. That is plain unacceptable for a modern state at the door of Europe. I guess that's what happens when religion gets mixed with politics and people think that they know what is best for you! There's currently limited information, but I really hope that things turn out for the best there!

smegel 10y ago

Might as well rip up that EU application.

tremon 10y ago
Actually, if true, this might re-open the EU application. It was Erdogan that was moving away from Europe.
damptowel 10y ago
I think those EU applications are mostly a front for Nato expansionism...

arca_vorago 10y ago

How about any mention of Sibel Edmonds claims that Turkey has been operating an intelligence apparatus in the US to overtly and covertly support them, often through blackmail. Or the fact that many they were actively trying to turn doubles in our surveillance engine? “The Government of Turkey had illegally infiltrated and influenced various U.S. government institutions and officials, including the Department of State, the Department of Defense, and individual members of the United States Congress.” I suppose I shouldn't expect journalism from the wsj. Edit: Sibel Edmonds called it 6 months ago: https://youtu.be/OxvPfWkYyUo https://youtu.be/OxvPfWkYyUo

getgoingnow 10y ago

Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg

runarb 10y ago

The Turkish president Erdoğan is on holiday outside the country acording to https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-coup-attempt-military-gunfire-ankara?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tweet https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-co... I am sitting at Bodrum airport located southwestern in Turkey when writing this. Everything is quiet here and the planes apear to go as normal.

BurningFrog 10y ago

Turkey seems to have a weird "two party system", where every decade or two power shifts between the military and the politicians. Not something anyone would design, but seems to work better than most countries in the region.

madethemcry 10y ago

This article is so very much irrelevant. Read this instead: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/turkey-low-flying-jets-and-gunfire-heard-in-ankara1/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/turkey-low-flying... Something huge is happening. EVERYBODY in Turkey is watching the news at the moment. The military is rushing in every major news station, there are battles between the police and the military, every flight in istanbul is cancelled and the two bridges to europe in istanbul are closed by the military. So much going on. I don't know if the people there are happy, unsure or feared of the situation. BUT: it's a weird coup: no massive presence of the military on the street like you would suspect. Just at some major places like the palace in ankara and the mentioned bridges. To repeat me. This is by far the best newsfeed in english: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/turkey-low-flying-jets-and-gunfire-heard-in-ankara1/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/turkey-low-flying... Still a huge lag to the turkish sources but at least.. I for myself get my news and information from good friends and their whatsapp groups. And it is so terrifying.

mhandley 10y ago
Pretty good rolling coverage on the BBC now too: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-36811357 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-36811357
MisterWebz 10y ago
Turkey’s recent-to-the-job prime minister, Binali Yildirim, announced: “I am sure that we will return ties with Syria to normal, we need it. We normalized our relations with Israel and Russia. I’m sure we will go back to normal relations with Syria as well.” The prime minister said this a couple of days ago. A huge shift in policy and now suddenly a coup. I'm guessing Erdogan saw the writing on the wall and tried to shift gears, but it seems the military went ahead with the coup anyway.
curiousgal 10y ago
Sky News Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg
wslh 10y ago

anonymousguy 10y ago

This could always happen in the US. US military officers swear an oath to defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic, but they don't swear an oath to other officers or elected officials. That said if an elected president violates the constitution the US military could qualify a military coup to restore law. Many posters in here indicate oddness that a military force could represent secularism. I am curious why that is. Most uniformed militaries I have observed have always seemed more secular than the people they represent. Let us not forget the Islamic Brotherhood was democratically elected in Egypt, which attempted to instill sharia law. A military coup ended that nonsense. Also, Hitler was democratically elected and was not immediately supported by the military.

stonogo 10y ago
The Knox laws are still in force. There is no legal framework for an American military coup, setting aside that the Commander in Chief is an elected office.
- niftich 10y ago
  Not to be pedantic, but the entire mechanism of coups d'état is that you step outside the legal framework and instead use intimidation and force. If you fail, it's very, very often fatal. If you succeed, you retrofit some sketchy legal justification, or ignore the matter altogether.
  - stonogo 10y ago
    Part of running a coup in a democratic country is that your ground troops have to be on your side. This is much more difficult when every single soldier is made completely aware during indoctrination that domestic military action is almost completely illegal. Adding in the fact that there is no conscription in America, the likelihood of a military coup today is vanishingly small.
- civilian 10y ago
  What are the Knox laws? Google isn't pulling anything except this http://www.knox.army.mil/garrison/dhr/asd/docs/regs/r190-5.pdf http://www.knox.army.mil/garrison/dhr/asd/docs/regs/r190-5.p...

Animats 10y ago

Live stream on Sky.[1] Probably the source getting the fastest updates. Video. Army now controls airports, bridges, and TV station. HN article on coup flagged.[2] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12103575 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12103575

Animats 10y ago

Army winning the PR war. Army has the Government TV station. President trying to get through on Facetime. Twitter and Facebook down. Coverage from central square in Istanbul via Skype. Update: Government TV station off air. President calling on people to take to the streets. Military declaring curfew. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg

tim333 10y ago

sky live video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg

Animats 10y ago

People at airport cheering and waving Turkey flags. Unclear which side they're cheering.

rdl 10y ago

Must be an exciting day for the US forces guarding our nuclear bombs stored at Incirlik airbase.

mschuster91 10y ago
Well, there are at least 250 German soldiers on base, too. I hope they don't get drawn into that mess.

baby 10y ago

It's interesting that all the posts on the terrorist attack in Nice(, France) yesterday were flagged on HN and this one is not. If you want to get away from live/sensational news, rumors and dangerous debates it makes sense to wait a few days before starting a discussion on the subject. So why moderating the french attack and not this?

baby 10y ago
dang?
- DanBC 10y ago
  If you want mods (dang or sctb) to answer you need to email them. There are way too many comments for them to read them all.

drinchev 10y ago

> Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan urged people to take to the streets to protest against what he described as a coup attempt by a minority faction within the military, vowing that it would meet with a "necessary response", Reuters reports. Such an asshole. People fighting against military. Is this what he wants to happen in order to continue his dictatorship?

enraged_camel 10y ago
Yep. I mean this is the guy who built himself a palace with 1000 rooms (using taxpayer money) because he thought he deserved it.

mehmetkose 10y ago

fuck fuck fuck! fuck you all military people. we'll fight. there never should'nt be army in any country.

mocko 10y ago

I just tried to submit https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-coup-attempt-military-gunfire-ankara https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-co... and rather than upvoting an existing submission like usual, HN tells me "Message Sorry, that story was previously submitted". What's with that?

sctb 10y ago

Since the interest here is clearly about the coup attempt underway, we've unflagged this post about that: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12103575 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12103575.

sujal99 10y ago
Why yesterday's Paris attack was hushed/flagged in this forum?
- detaro 10y ago
  this discussion might provide answers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12099254 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12099254 (flagging is done by users)

rsp1984 10y ago

I wonder if Russia plays any role in this. It wasn't long ago that Moscow and Ankara were quarreling over a Russian jet that's been shut down in November by Turkish forces. Then recently there was a reconciliation but it happened a bit too quickly in the eyes of many observers.