5 ms·

The Haskell Platform 2010.1: the standard development environment for Haskell

63 points by dons 17y ago

swannodette 17y ago
Supports Snow Leopard 64bit. Been looking forward to this.
- applicative 17y ago
  If I understand -- note that this is the new macports version, which is ghc 6.10. Simultaneously, there is a new mac installer for the Haskell Platform with ghc 6.12 -- it works with Snow Leopard, and is 32 bit. http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/bgchh/the_haskell_platform_ghc_612_snow_leopard_64_bit/ http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/bgchh/the_haskell_p...
ionfish 17y ago
It would be great if they had a .torrent or some faster servers, downloads from haskell.org always go at a snail's pace for me.
- rauljara 17y ago
  No kidding. I'm at 5.1 kb/s. This is exactly the [legal] sort of thing that torrents were designed for. Once my download is complete (~8 hours from now), I'll make a torrent of it.
  - dons 17y ago
    We need bigger tubes for all this Haskell!
- baddox 17y ago
  Yep, 3 KB/sec for a 50 megabyte file is unacceptable. Honestly, have they heard of mirrors or torrents?
  - stevelosh 17y ago
    Yeah, I'm getting 6 kb/s on the 138mb OS X platform DMG. Fun.
- Locke1689 17y ago
  I downloaded the Mac .dmg and created a torrent for it. You can download at http://commentout.net/media/haskell-platform-2010.1.0.0-i386.dmg.torrent http://commentout.net/media/haskell-platform-2010.1.0.0-i386...
Zak 17y ago
This is exactly the sort of thing languages that wish to become popular need. User-friendly applies to programming environments too; batteries included should be the result - they can always be removed later. I'm sure someone will call that approach "bloat by default", but I think that's a red herring. Good programmers will remove bloat where it matters, and bad programmers will add bloat where it's harmful.
- leif 17y ago
  I absolutely agree, but the haskell guys have not quite gotten it complete. I envision mathematicians a-plenty installing ubuntu because it's "programmy" and then giving up installing the haskell platform because they don't know what compiling is or why they need all those "X-dev" packages. I for one know a few math guys that absolutely love haskell when I show it to them (more so when I talk about category theory and types :-), but would just get distracted if I asked them to run console commands in order to install it, which is a terrible shame because they totally get it on my system once everything's installed and set up.
  - dons 17y ago
    Wait for it ... http://packages.debian.org/sid/haskell-platform http://packages.debian.org/sid/haskell-platform The single .deb install. Ubuntu will pick it up shortly.
    - leif 17y ago
      I retract my previous statement. Haskell people are wonderful creatures.
cageface 17y ago
I realize that microbenchmarks like those posted at http://shootout.alioth.debian.org http://shootout.alioth.debian.org don't really tell us much about a language's performance in or suitability for larger applications, but I must admit I'm surprised that the Haskell programs there aren't significantly shorter than the Java versions. After all, Java is roundly criticized for its verbosity and these kinds of problems seem to be particularly good candidates for short, expressive functional solutions. Are the Haskell versions written in a non-idiomatic style for performance reasons?
- dons 17y ago
  Many of those programs were written several years ago in non-idiomatic Haskell for performance reasons. They should be updated now that GHC is smarter.
  - cageface 17y ago
    Interesting. Good to know. I tried and gave up a few times to build the last version of the Haskell platform but this one seems to have built & installed cleanly on the first try. Looks like a good start.
- briansmith 17y ago
  Yes. Those programs serve as a warning against what you might have to contort your short, sweet, clear programs into in order to get good performance without dropping down to C.
  - by 17y ago
    That is assuming you are comparing the speed against C. I rewrote one into short, sweet style and found it was much faster than python and ruby. The only frustration was being unable to get the code shorter than the ruby version. Note that the benchmarks are still for 6.10.4, they might get a bit faster when run with 6.12. I am curious, are you speaking from some particular experience of problems with the speed?
anonymousDan 17y ago
I really wish they would include gtk2hs by default, it's such a pain to get working on windows.
- dons 17y ago
  We're working on that. Axel Simon is cabalizing gtk2hs. Once that happens, it could go in to the HP. And then we'd get cool tools like ThreadScope as well: http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/threadscope/ http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/threadscope/ (which needs gtk2hs) Hot topic and stay tuned.
  - anonymousDan 17y ago
    Great! Thanks for that, thread scope looks interesting...
olliesaunders 17y ago
Ah, I see it has the new version of GHC now: 6.12.1
gcv 17y ago
How does this install on Mac OS? Does it dump everything to /usr/local, or is it clean and self-contained inside its .app bundle?
- telemachos 17y ago
  I believe that everything is installed under /Library/Frameworks/GHC.framework and then symlinked. (At least, that's what I'm seeing on my system from the last version of the installer.) See here for some details (may be out of date, in terms of SnowLeopard): http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Mac_OS_X http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Mac_OS_X As that link mentions, the platform also comes with an uninstaller at /Library/Frameworks/GHC.framework/Tools/Uninstaller.
zokier 17y ago
"The Windows installer currently provides the 2009.2.0.2 Haskell Platform" Problem with the website or is Windows release lagging behind?
- sigzero 17y ago
  It is lagging a bit behind. Patience...
jamesbritt 17y ago
Was the GHC 6.12.1 for Snow Leopard compiled with --enable-shared? It seems it wasn't. I just tried to install a cabal package passing the --enable-shared switch, and got the error Failed to load interface for `Prelude': Perhaps you haven't installed the "dyn" libraries for package `base'? which I believe means this GHC cannot build shared objects. Am I right about this? I hope not; the ability build shared objects is one of the key features of 6.12.
danderson42 17y ago
Torrents for the platform: OS X: http://natulte.net/~dave/haskell-platform-2010.1.0.0-i386.dmg.torrent http://natulte.net/~dave/haskell-platform-2010.1.0.0-i386.dm... Win32 : http://natulte.net/~dave/HaskellPlatform-2009.2.0.2-setup.exe.torrent http://natulte.net/~dave/HaskellPlatform-2009.2.0.2-setup.ex... (this is the old Haskell Platform still, not updated yet) Linux : http://natulte.net/~dave/haskell-platform-2010.1.0.0.tar.gz.torrent http://natulte.net/~dave/haskell-platform-2010.1.0.0.tar.gz.... We're going to try to get those torrents up on the platform page itself as well, but dons is in a plane for the next several hours.

63 points by dons 17y ago

swannodette 17y ago

Supports Snow Leopard 64bit. Been looking forward to this.

applicative 17y ago
If I understand -- note that this is the new macports version, which is ghc 6.10. Simultaneously, there is a new mac installer for the Haskell Platform with ghc 6.12 -- it works with Snow Leopard, and is 32 bit. http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/bgchh/the_haskell_platform_ghc_612_snow_leopard_64_bit/ http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/bgchh/the_haskell_p...

ionfish 17y ago

It would be great if they had a .torrent or some faster servers, downloads from haskell.org always go at a snail's pace for me.

rauljara 17y ago
No kidding. I'm at 5.1 kb/s. This is exactly the [legal] sort of thing that torrents were designed for. Once my download is complete (~8 hours from now), I'll make a torrent of it.
- dons 17y ago
  We need bigger tubes for all this Haskell!
baddox 17y ago
Yep, 3 KB/sec for a 50 megabyte file is unacceptable. Honestly, have they heard of mirrors or torrents?
- stevelosh 17y ago
  Yeah, I'm getting 6 kb/s on the 138mb OS X platform DMG. Fun.
Locke1689 17y ago
I downloaded the Mac .dmg and created a torrent for it. You can download at http://commentout.net/media/haskell-platform-2010.1.0.0-i386.dmg.torrent http://commentout.net/media/haskell-platform-2010.1.0.0-i386...

Zak 17y ago

This is exactly the sort of thing languages that wish to become popular need. User-friendly applies to programming environments too; batteries included should be the result - they can always be removed later. I'm sure someone will call that approach "bloat by default", but I think that's a red herring. Good programmers will remove bloat where it matters, and bad programmers will add bloat where it's harmful.

leif 17y ago
I absolutely agree, but the haskell guys have not quite gotten it complete. I envision mathematicians a-plenty installing ubuntu because it's "programmy" and then giving up installing the haskell platform because they don't know what compiling is or why they need all those "X-dev" packages. I for one know a few math guys that absolutely love haskell when I show it to them (more so when I talk about category theory and types :-), but would just get distracted if I asked them to run console commands in order to install it, which is a terrible shame because they totally get it on my system once everything's installed and set up.
- dons 17y ago
  Wait for it ... http://packages.debian.org/sid/haskell-platform http://packages.debian.org/sid/haskell-platform The single .deb install. Ubuntu will pick it up shortly.
  - leif 17y ago
    I retract my previous statement. Haskell people are wonderful creatures.

cageface 17y ago

I realize that microbenchmarks like those posted at http://shootout.alioth.debian.org http://shootout.alioth.debian.org don't really tell us much about a language's performance in or suitability for larger applications, but I must admit I'm surprised that the Haskell programs there aren't significantly shorter than the Java versions. After all, Java is roundly criticized for its verbosity and these kinds of problems seem to be particularly good candidates for short, expressive functional solutions. Are the Haskell versions written in a non-idiomatic style for performance reasons?

dons 17y ago
Many of those programs were written several years ago in non-idiomatic Haskell for performance reasons. They should be updated now that GHC is smarter.
- cageface 17y ago
  Interesting. Good to know. I tried and gave up a few times to build the last version of the Haskell platform but this one seems to have built & installed cleanly on the first try. Looks like a good start.
briansmith 17y ago
Yes. Those programs serve as a warning against what you might have to contort your short, sweet, clear programs into in order to get good performance without dropping down to C.
- by 17y ago
  That is assuming you are comparing the speed against C. I rewrote one into short, sweet style and found it was much faster than python and ruby. The only frustration was being unable to get the code shorter than the ruby version. Note that the benchmarks are still for 6.10.4, they might get a bit faster when run with 6.12. I am curious, are you speaking from some particular experience of problems with the speed?

anonymousDan 17y ago

I really wish they would include gtk2hs by default, it's such a pain to get working on windows.

dons 17y ago
We're working on that. Axel Simon is cabalizing gtk2hs. Once that happens, it could go in to the HP. And then we'd get cool tools like ThreadScope as well: http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/threadscope/ http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/threadscope/ (which needs gtk2hs) Hot topic and stay tuned.
- anonymousDan 17y ago
  Great! Thanks for that, thread scope looks interesting...

olliesaunders 17y ago

Ah, I see it has the new version of GHC now: 6.12.1

gcv 17y ago

How does this install on Mac OS? Does it dump everything to /usr/local, or is it clean and self-contained inside its .app bundle?

telemachos 17y ago
I believe that everything is installed under /Library/Frameworks/GHC.framework and then symlinked. (At least, that's what I'm seeing on my system from the last version of the installer.) See here for some details (may be out of date, in terms of SnowLeopard): http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Mac_OS_X http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Mac_OS_X As that link mentions, the platform also comes with an uninstaller at /Library/Frameworks/GHC.framework/Tools/Uninstaller.

zokier 17y ago

"The Windows installer currently provides the 2009.2.0.2 Haskell Platform" Problem with the website or is Windows release lagging behind?

sigzero 17y ago
It is lagging a bit behind. Patience...

jamesbritt 17y ago

Was the GHC 6.12.1 for Snow Leopard compiled with --enable-shared? It seems it wasn't. I just tried to install a cabal package passing the --enable-shared switch, and got the error Failed to load interface for `Prelude': Perhaps you haven't installed the "dyn" libraries for package `base'? which I believe means this GHC cannot build shared objects. Am I right about this? I hope not; the ability build shared objects is one of the key features of 6.12.

danderson42 17y ago

Torrents for the platform: OS X: http://natulte.net/~dave/haskell-platform-2010.1.0.0-i386.dmg.torrent http://natulte.net/~dave/haskell-platform-2010.1.0.0-i386.dm... Win32 : http://natulte.net/~dave/HaskellPlatform-2009.2.0.2-setup.exe.torrent http://natulte.net/~dave/HaskellPlatform-2009.2.0.2-setup.ex... (this is the old Haskell Platform still, not updated yet) Linux : http://natulte.net/~dave/haskell-platform-2010.1.0.0.tar.gz.torrent http://natulte.net/~dave/haskell-platform-2010.1.0.0.tar.gz.... We're going to try to get those torrents up on the platform page itself as well, but dons is in a plane for the next several hours.