7 ms·

FlightCar shuts down

97 points by cgoodmac 10y ago

rgbrgb 10y ago
I used Relay Rides in SF a few times for super low budget rentals ($20-35/day). It worked really well there and pickup was probably less of a hassle than it would have been to go to the airport. Looks like there's been a rebrand: https://turo.com/ https://turo.com/
ocdtrekkie 10y ago
The "also today" choice of wording is odd. Generally this seems like a straight acquihire, startup gaining attention to get bought by a bigger company and exit operations. But the Forbes article (http://www.forbes.com/sites/briansolomon/2016/07/14/flightcar-to-shut-down-sell-technology-to-mercedes-benz/#3ce7c3c83f3a http://www.forbes.com/sites/briansolomon/2016/07/14/flightca...) makes it sound like it's a business that's been failing. So I guess the question is: Shutting down because it was acquired, or selling off value because it's shutting down? I guess the answer lies in how much FlightCar was sold for.
- dawhizkid 10y ago
  It's not an acquihire. Sounds like MB bought their code in a fire sale once they alreaded decided to shut down.
colmvp 10y ago
"We thank all of our customers for being a part of our journey, and we look forward to a new future." There it is. https://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com/ https://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com/
- ocdtrekkie 10y ago
  I did tweet this to the guy who runs this already. :D
- asdfologist 10y ago
  That blog looks straight out of 1995.
  - wmccullough 10y ago
    So does your face
  - Dylan16807 10y ago
    It's a series of images. It needs to be easy to use and not slow. It doesn't need to be trendy.
- robryan 10y ago
  To be fair it is pretty half hearted compared to the usual acquihire spiel.
corywatilo 10y ago
Good riddance. They tried to reboot a few months back but the damage had already been done. The people who really wanted this sort of business to succeed (including myself) had already tried to embrace them, but got burned too much in the past to risk giving them another shot. My guess is the only potential market going forward were people who randomly came across FlightCar when searching for rental cars. My money is on this being an acquihire. The business failed. (I previously wrote an open letter to FlightCar, based on my personal experiences, which also summed up the general consensus amongst everyone who had tried it in the past: http://watilo.com/open-letter-to-flightcar http://watilo.com/open-letter-to-flightcar)
- swang 10y ago
  If it was an acquihire, wouldn't this press release more reflect that rather than saying it shutdown? Edit: reading it again it seems maybe there are people continuing on with Mercedes Benz Edit2: geez just read your post sans audio. That is pretty terrible
  - gnahckire 10y ago
    It wasn't an acquihire. Source: Know someone who until recently ... worked at flightcar
- phreanix 10y ago
  The comment by flightcar employee was incredibly disturbing.
  - ams6110 10y ago
    It was, but bear in mind also totally unverified.
- ithinkinstereo 10y ago
  What do you find particularly terrible about renting from one of the major agencies? I travel frequently for work and rent across all the major rental agencies (Hertz, Avis, National) and their discount subsidiaries (Thrifty, Budget, Alamo). These days the process is super smooth. If you register with the agency's free rewards program, the process is usually: 1) Bypass counter to the rewards members area 2) Pick up pre-assigned car or choose your own from the designated pickup areas 3) Drive to exit, show drivers ID, and leave. When returning, most agencies allow you to just drop it off and get your receipt delivered via email. I've tried flightcar a few times and have no complaints about the experience itself - it just wasn't any better than going with a major agency, with more downsides: 1) weirder off-airport location (makes returning more difficult - vast majority of airports have clear signs for car rental dropoffs that are super easy to follow) 2) not as consistent in terms of car quality (major agencies standardize their lineups across a few models and years) and maintenance - harder to change/swap cars 3) not as good support (stuck somewhere in random CT, hertz locations everywhere, flightcar = BOS)
Hydraulix989 10y ago
Not surprising, they were competing against Uber. So many people listed their cars on FlightCar's monthly parking plan (park long-term for free at their lot near SFO, and occasionally they'll rent your car out) to avoid paying SF parking costs (~$400/month) that they had to force everybody to get their cars out of their "salvage yard." When I arrived at FlightCar HQ, I saw a lot full of unused cars the day I showed up to pick up my car once and for all. Everyone just abused the system. It was a pretty sweet deal for a while: I was profiting off my car while parking it for free for over a year in San Francisco.
- kylec 10y ago
  How is that abuse? Having lots of cars to rent out seems like the exact thing they would have wanted.
  - Hydraulix989 10y ago
    Marketplace concepts are hard because you need the supply side and the demand side to be balanced.
wmccullough 10y ago
"We believe that people around the world can be more self-reliant by sharing their resources to improve society" You sure do, that's why you sold out. Lip service at its finest.
rdl 10y ago
Flightcar failed, but was it fundamental to the market, or just this specific company? I wonder if there's a successful business to be done in this space. I'm not convinced the fundamental economics work -- most business travelers value convenience and lack of failure (and are responsible for most high-margin, low-hassle rentals); families or individual non-business <25yo, etc. are more likely to heavily use and thus damage a car. It also seems a bit crazy to rent out a personal car unless you don't particularly care about that car, or are very confident the rental agency can detect and fix any problems. Generally, even with great maintenance, ex-rental cars do not do great on resale compared to single-driver cars. This would work great for 100% self-driving cars, but there's no particular reason for individuals to own and rent out the self driving cars -- those could just be owned by a fleet provider who can borrow at 0-2%.
- pbreit 10y ago
  I'd be surprised if it ever works. Too many variables. The service that I think will be killer is Luxe/Zirx at the airport: drive right up to the curb drop-off, someone takes your car and then returns it right to you as you exit the baggage claim. For a fee somewhere between off-airport and short-term parking.
  - rdl 10y ago
    I don't think Luxe style "wait for someone to razor scooter to you, then drive off" would work -- too far, and waiting even 5 minutes in the dropoff area of an airport would be obnoxious for the airport, and thus banned. Actual valet parking at the airport would be great, though (with a manned facility where you drive up, drop off, and fly). I've been to airports which offered this. Aside from taxi mafia regulatory capture, I don't see why more places don't offer it. (On return, I'm indifferent between valet-returns-with-car, and taking a shuttle to your car elsewhere; the thing I want to optimize is dropoff speed.)
    - bayesian_horse 10y ago
      At that speed I would wonder If I gave my car keys to the right person, or a scammer lying in wait.
jlukecarlson 10y ago
I used FlightCar for the first time literally last night. I signed up right before I boarded and getting to the FlightCar location ended up being decently convoluted but I did get a pretty nice Mazda for the weekend. This morning I received a 'Welcome to FlightCar' email and two hours later a follow up 'Update from FlightCar' thanking me for being a loyal customer and letting me know that they are shutting down
mchannon 10y ago
I'm sad to see them go. Used them near exclusively for my past 2 dozen trips (about a dozen SFO, about a dozen OAK). The rental car experience in general is ripe for disruption- flightcar was not perfect but the incumbents were and are just atrocious, from surly, conniving employees every step of the way to miserable shuttle/train rides to out-of-the-way and monopoly-priced oceans of asphalt. If FC ran out of room for cars, they could always have charged a discounted rate for parking instead of offering it for free. I guess I'll give Turo a try next time.
avindroth 10y ago
Hopefully another company in the near future is founded in the same name to deliver the promises of its title.
robg 10y ago
Surprised no one has mentioned how the cards were stacked against them from a bureaucratic level. I understand the airport authorities help run their operations from what they get from rental car fees. But Flightcar was clearly treated in an heavy handed way by different municipalities. That's very difficult to overcome. I only used them at SFO and the rules kept changing underneath them. They had to change locations multiple times and went from curbside service to being treated as an off-airport vendor. It's all the bloat and corruption of the taxi industry PLUS local municipalities getting their cut and fighting to keep it. That was going to be a very difficult terrain to overcome even if the customer service was perfect. Overall, I was probably typical. When I could avoid the airtrain with their blackcar I was willing to put up with the off-airport location. As soon as I had to take the airtrain to the rental car facility and then hop in the blackcar, the modestly lower prices with more variable car quality was no longer worth it. Curbside pickup made a lot of sense. Until the SFO authority regulated it toward their own bloated interests.
- josho 10y ago
  > all the bloat and corruption of the taxi industry PLUS local municipalities getting their cut Isn't that simply capitalism? An analog: iPhones default to google for web searches because google paid Apple $1b to keep it the default. Yet we typically don't call this bloat or corruption. Hertz (or whoever it is these days) is the closest car rental at every airport because they pay the airport the most for this scarce resource. Yes, this makes it difficult for new entrants into the marketplace. But, don't blame corruption, blame capitalism for everyone maximizing their own profits. Oh, and to bring this back to startups. What is Hertz/Taxi unfair competitive advantage? Multi-year agreements with each airport to give them closest access for airport passenger pickup. That is what Flightier had to overcome, it seems they struggled overcoming their competitors lock-in with the airports.
brianbreslin 10y ago
With all this discussion on car rental options. I'm surprised no one has mentioned SilverCar. Has anyone used them? The airport rental business is indeed one that needs major overhaul. If any of you are curious, there are some fascinating case studies out there on enterprise and how they succeeded by avoiding the airports.

97 points by cgoodmac 10y ago

I used Relay Rides in SF a few times for super low budget rentals ($20-35/day). It worked really well there and pickup was probably less of a hassle than it would have been to go to the airport. Looks like there's been a rebrand: https://turo.com/ https://turo.com/

ocdtrekkie 10y ago

The "also today" choice of wording is odd. Generally this seems like a straight acquihire, startup gaining attention to get bought by a bigger company and exit operations. But the Forbes article (http://www.forbes.com/sites/briansolomon/2016/07/14/flightcar-to-shut-down-sell-technology-to-mercedes-benz/#3ce7c3c83f3a http://www.forbes.com/sites/briansolomon/2016/07/14/flightca...) makes it sound like it's a business that's been failing. So I guess the question is: Shutting down because it was acquired, or selling off value because it's shutting down? I guess the answer lies in how much FlightCar was sold for.

dawhizkid 10y ago
It's not an acquihire. Sounds like MB bought their code in a fire sale once they alreaded decided to shut down.

colmvp 10y ago

"We thank all of our customers for being a part of our journey, and we look forward to a new future." There it is. https://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com/ https://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com/

ocdtrekkie 10y ago
I did tweet this to the guy who runs this already. :D
asdfologist 10y ago
That blog looks straight out of 1995.
- wmccullough 10y ago
  So does your face
- Dylan16807 10y ago
  It's a series of images. It needs to be easy to use and not slow. It doesn't need to be trendy.
robryan 10y ago
To be fair it is pretty half hearted compared to the usual acquihire spiel.

corywatilo 10y ago

Good riddance. They tried to reboot a few months back but the damage had already been done. The people who really wanted this sort of business to succeed (including myself) had already tried to embrace them, but got burned too much in the past to risk giving them another shot. My guess is the only potential market going forward were people who randomly came across FlightCar when searching for rental cars. My money is on this being an acquihire. The business failed. (I previously wrote an open letter to FlightCar, based on my personal experiences, which also summed up the general consensus amongst everyone who had tried it in the past: http://watilo.com/open-letter-to-flightcar http://watilo.com/open-letter-to-flightcar)

swang 10y ago
If it was an acquihire, wouldn't this press release more reflect that rather than saying it shutdown? Edit: reading it again it seems maybe there are people continuing on with Mercedes Benz Edit2: geez just read your post sans audio. That is pretty terrible
- gnahckire 10y ago
  It wasn't an acquihire. Source: Know someone who until recently ... worked at flightcar
phreanix 10y ago
The comment by flightcar employee was incredibly disturbing.
- ams6110 10y ago
  It was, but bear in mind also totally unverified.
ithinkinstereo 10y ago
What do you find particularly terrible about renting from one of the major agencies? I travel frequently for work and rent across all the major rental agencies (Hertz, Avis, National) and their discount subsidiaries (Thrifty, Budget, Alamo). These days the process is super smooth. If you register with the agency's free rewards program, the process is usually: 1) Bypass counter to the rewards members area 2) Pick up pre-assigned car or choose your own from the designated pickup areas 3) Drive to exit, show drivers ID, and leave. When returning, most agencies allow you to just drop it off and get your receipt delivered via email. I've tried flightcar a few times and have no complaints about the experience itself - it just wasn't any better than going with a major agency, with more downsides: 1) weirder off-airport location (makes returning more difficult - vast majority of airports have clear signs for car rental dropoffs that are super easy to follow) 2) not as consistent in terms of car quality (major agencies standardize their lineups across a few models and years) and maintenance - harder to change/swap cars 3) not as good support (stuck somewhere in random CT, hertz locations everywhere, flightcar = BOS)

Hydraulix989 10y ago

Not surprising, they were competing against Uber. So many people listed their cars on FlightCar's monthly parking plan (park long-term for free at their lot near SFO, and occasionally they'll rent your car out) to avoid paying SF parking costs (~$400/month) that they had to force everybody to get their cars out of their "salvage yard." When I arrived at FlightCar HQ, I saw a lot full of unused cars the day I showed up to pick up my car once and for all. Everyone just abused the system. It was a pretty sweet deal for a while: I was profiting off my car while parking it for free for over a year in San Francisco.

kylec 10y ago
How is that abuse? Having lots of cars to rent out seems like the exact thing they would have wanted.
- Hydraulix989 10y ago
  Marketplace concepts are hard because you need the supply side and the demand side to be balanced.

wmccullough 10y ago

"We believe that people around the world can be more self-reliant by sharing their resources to improve society" You sure do, that's why you sold out. Lip service at its finest.

rdl 10y ago

Flightcar failed, but was it fundamental to the market, or just this specific company? I wonder if there's a successful business to be done in this space. I'm not convinced the fundamental economics work -- most business travelers value convenience and lack of failure (and are responsible for most high-margin, low-hassle rentals); families or individual non-business <25yo, etc. are more likely to heavily use and thus damage a car. It also seems a bit crazy to rent out a personal car unless you don't particularly care about that car, or are very confident the rental agency can detect and fix any problems. Generally, even with great maintenance, ex-rental cars do not do great on resale compared to single-driver cars. This would work great for 100% self-driving cars, but there's no particular reason for individuals to own and rent out the self driving cars -- those could just be owned by a fleet provider who can borrow at 0-2%.

pbreit 10y ago
I'd be surprised if it ever works. Too many variables. The service that I think will be killer is Luxe/Zirx at the airport: drive right up to the curb drop-off, someone takes your car and then returns it right to you as you exit the baggage claim. For a fee somewhere between off-airport and short-term parking.
- rdl 10y ago
  I don't think Luxe style "wait for someone to razor scooter to you, then drive off" would work -- too far, and waiting even 5 minutes in the dropoff area of an airport would be obnoxious for the airport, and thus banned. Actual valet parking at the airport would be great, though (with a manned facility where you drive up, drop off, and fly). I've been to airports which offered this. Aside from taxi mafia regulatory capture, I don't see why more places don't offer it. (On return, I'm indifferent between valet-returns-with-car, and taking a shuttle to your car elsewhere; the thing I want to optimize is dropoff speed.)
  - bayesian_horse 10y ago
    At that speed I would wonder If I gave my car keys to the right person, or a scammer lying in wait.

jlukecarlson 10y ago

I used FlightCar for the first time literally last night. I signed up right before I boarded and getting to the FlightCar location ended up being decently convoluted but I did get a pretty nice Mazda for the weekend. This morning I received a 'Welcome to FlightCar' email and two hours later a follow up 'Update from FlightCar' thanking me for being a loyal customer and letting me know that they are shutting down

mchannon 10y ago

I'm sad to see them go. Used them near exclusively for my past 2 dozen trips (about a dozen SFO, about a dozen OAK). The rental car experience in general is ripe for disruption- flightcar was not perfect but the incumbents were and are just atrocious, from surly, conniving employees every step of the way to miserable shuttle/train rides to out-of-the-way and monopoly-priced oceans of asphalt. If FC ran out of room for cars, they could always have charged a discounted rate for parking instead of offering it for free. I guess I'll give Turo a try next time.

avindroth 10y ago

Hopefully another company in the near future is founded in the same name to deliver the promises of its title.

robg 10y ago

Surprised no one has mentioned how the cards were stacked against them from a bureaucratic level. I understand the airport authorities help run their operations from what they get from rental car fees. But Flightcar was clearly treated in an heavy handed way by different municipalities. That's very difficult to overcome. I only used them at SFO and the rules kept changing underneath them. They had to change locations multiple times and went from curbside service to being treated as an off-airport vendor. It's all the bloat and corruption of the taxi industry PLUS local municipalities getting their cut and fighting to keep it. That was going to be a very difficult terrain to overcome even if the customer service was perfect. Overall, I was probably typical. When I could avoid the airtrain with their blackcar I was willing to put up with the off-airport location. As soon as I had to take the airtrain to the rental car facility and then hop in the blackcar, the modestly lower prices with more variable car quality was no longer worth it. Curbside pickup made a lot of sense. Until the SFO authority regulated it toward their own bloated interests.

josho 10y ago
> all the bloat and corruption of the taxi industry PLUS local municipalities getting their cut Isn't that simply capitalism? An analog: iPhones default to google for web searches because google paid Apple $1b to keep it the default. Yet we typically don't call this bloat or corruption. Hertz (or whoever it is these days) is the closest car rental at every airport because they pay the airport the most for this scarce resource. Yes, this makes it difficult for new entrants into the marketplace. But, don't blame corruption, blame capitalism for everyone maximizing their own profits. Oh, and to bring this back to startups. What is Hertz/Taxi unfair competitive advantage? Multi-year agreements with each airport to give them closest access for airport passenger pickup. That is what Flightier had to overcome, it seems they struggled overcoming their competitors lock-in with the airports.

brianbreslin 10y ago

With all this discussion on car rental options. I'm surprised no one has mentioned SilverCar. Has anyone used them? The airport rental business is indeed one that needs major overhaul. If any of you are curious, there are some fascinating case studies out there on enterprise and how they succeeded by avoiding the airports.