8 ms·

It seems to me that many (but not all) of the experiences he describes here are things that most of us go through. He can attribute them to his skin color, but

It seems to me that many (but not all) of the experiences he describes here are things that most of us go through. He can attribute them to his skin color, but really, most people are outsiders in one way or another, and sometimes feel awkward about how well we fit in with various groups. So I'm inclined to attribute some of his concerns to being just the normal (if unfortunate) human condition. Even as a middle-aged guy, I sometimes feel that the seat next to me is the one people are avoiding. And I've definitely seen moms grab their little girl and march away when I smile at them (the little girl, that is; and then my smile melts from sorrow at the world we live in). I've been guilty of accidentally referring to one gay guy at work by the name of another gay guy (and it was pointed out to me later by a third person). But the thing is, they both held the same position at different times, and that confusion over their roles was the actual cause of my mistake. Surely it's not necessarily their sexual preference (or skin color in the case of the article) that's serving as an alternate identifier. I feel awkward when people talk about sports (I'm just not interested and so have no knowledge) or popular culture like TV (I don't even have cable TV). Now, it's not right to sweep all of his concerns under the carpet. I'm sure that some of it really is racial in nature. But I'm equally sure that some of it is just normal. And because it's not possible for us to live the experience of the other, I can't actually see what it's like to be him, and he can't see the awkwardness that I and others experience. I'm sad that we're in a position where racial bias seems a reasonable default explanation for such things. But I'm also sad that people also continue to make accusations of racism, because it also hurts to be on the receiving end. I'd have to admit for myself that I sometimes have impure thoughts, but I honestly do my best to make my actions correct. At the end of the day, I think the only way to get past this is for everyone to be color blind. We need to guard against acting out of bias. But on the other side, those people potentially on the receiving end need to get past it, too. It's not fair. But unless we let it be water under the bridge, the bad feelings will keep passing back and forth like a pingpong ball.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
balls187 10y ago
What you've written is pretty much nothing like what the author is talking about. > I feel awkward when people talk about sports You don't like talking about sports, but it's a topic of conversation, because by and large many people in the US like sports. That is different than assuming you must be an athlete because of the color of your skin (racism). > Even as a middle-aged guy, I sometimes feel that the seat next to me is the one people are avoiding. For whatever reason, sometimes people don't take the empty seat next to you. That reason isn't because the color of your skin. > And I've definitely seen moms grab their little girl and march away when I smile at them Yes, this is something all men should be aware of. Don't act creepy to little kids. Parents typically do not spirit away their kids when adults simply smile at their children. Something other than your smile is causing that parent. > I'm sad that we're in a position where racial bias seems a reasonable default explanation for such things. At the risk of telling you how to feel, how about feeling sad that people are actually victims of racism. > At the end of the day, I think the only way to get past this is for everyone to be color blind. We need to guard against acting out of bias. I disagree with the first part, but agree with the second. A persons skin color is part of their identity, and we should recognize that, but not use that as a way to group, categorize, or otherwise use as the basis for how we behave towards that individual. We should also be aware that it's human nature to feel defensive against those that are different from us, and to not give into that behavior.
- mhenr18 10y ago
  > A persons skin color is part of their identity Unless they're white, at which point they get shunned if they even try to embrace that part of their identity. If a black man says he's proud to be black, that's perfectly fine. If a white man says he's proud to be white, people think "what's wrong with being any other skin color?"
  - balls187 10y ago
    I think you've missed the point about racial identity. White people do get to embrace their identity, but how it's how they do it that matters. "White pride", for better or worse, is closely linked to "white supremacy." That is different than, https://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/ https://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/ which embraces and celebrates "white" culture, without demonizing other cultures.
lotso 10y ago
>At the end of the day, I think the only way to get past this is for everyone to be color blind. Sure, but let's acknowledge and then fix the systematic oppression in our country and implicit bias inherent in our people first.
- webXL 10y ago
  What "systematic oppression in our country"?
- giardini 10y ago
  In the movie "Bulworth", Warren Beatty's character, Sen. Jay Billington Bulworth, who is running for the Presidency, is asked how to solve racism. Part of his answer: "Rich people have always stayed on top by dividing white people from colored people, but white people got more in common with colored people then they do with rich people. We just gotta eliminate them - white people, black people, brown people, yellow people - get rid of 'em all. All we need is a voluntary, free spirited, open-ended program of procreative racial deconstruction. Everybody just gotta keep fuckin' everybody til they're all the same color." I think he's right! Of course Bulworth makes it look easy by falling in love with Nina (Halle Berrie). You can read Bulworth's full answer at http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118798/quotes http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118798/quotes
skywhopper 10y ago
Some or most of it may not be due to race, but enough of the behavior is truly different from what you and I experience (police harassment, store owner suspicion, people avoiding you on the street, as well as stuff the author didn't mention: explicit discrimination from landlords, banks, restaurant hosts, and more), that even the little things can add up more than they do for those of us who are closer to the "norm".
- CWuestefeld 10y ago
  police harassment, store owner suspicion I experience both of these things when I was younger. Not so much anymore. people avoiding you on the street As I related above, I've had moms keep their little girls away from me. Is the perceived potential danger from a middle-aged guy much different from that of a black guy? explicit discrimination from landlords Funny you should mention that. As it happens, my wife is Asian. I know for a fact that in at least two rental situations, we were given preferential treatment because of that. It cuts both ways. Again, as long as people keep pointing fingers at me and telling me I'm a racist, I will grow increasingly inured, and even angry. I think that in the end, you start to have the opposite of the effect you'd like.
  - sangnoir 10y ago
    > I know for a fact that in at least two rental situations, we were given preferential treatment because of that. It cuts both ways Black people getting the short-end of the stick while Asians (allegedly) getting preferential isn't "cutting it both ways". > Again, as long as people keep pointing fingers at me and telling me I'm a racist, I will grow increasingly inured, and even angry. I think that in the end, you start to have the opposite of the effect you'd like. It's your prerogative. Not specifically directed to you, but it is important to note that racism is not a state of mind - it's the way you act. A lot of prejudiced people do not feel like racists even after their obviously racist tirade has been recorded. Being a racist is a terrible thing and they obviously aren't terrible people, so how can they possibly be racist?
    - CWuestefeld 10y ago
efuquen 10y ago
>Now, it's not right to sweep all of his concerns under the carpet. And yet that's exactly what you are doing in your entire comment, drawing parallels that are not equivalent and then sweeping under the rug the racial issues as nonexistent. You are discounting the experience of the vast majority of black Americans.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

balls187 10y ago

What you've written is pretty much nothing like what the author is talking about. > I feel awkward when people talk about sports You don't like talking about sports, but it's a topic of conversation, because by and large many people in the US like sports. That is different than assuming you must be an athlete because of the color of your skin (racism). > Even as a middle-aged guy, I sometimes feel that the seat next to me is the one people are avoiding. For whatever reason, sometimes people don't take the empty seat next to you. That reason isn't because the color of your skin. > And I've definitely seen moms grab their little girl and march away when I smile at them Yes, this is something all men should be aware of. Don't act creepy to little kids. Parents typically do not spirit away their kids when adults simply smile at their children. Something other than your smile is causing that parent. > I'm sad that we're in a position where racial bias seems a reasonable default explanation for such things. At the risk of telling you how to feel, how about feeling sad that people are actually victims of racism. > At the end of the day, I think the only way to get past this is for everyone to be color blind. We need to guard against acting out of bias. I disagree with the first part, but agree with the second. A persons skin color is part of their identity, and we should recognize that, but not use that as a way to group, categorize, or otherwise use as the basis for how we behave towards that individual. We should also be aware that it's human nature to feel defensive against those that are different from us, and to not give into that behavior.

mhenr18 10y ago
> A persons skin color is part of their identity Unless they're white, at which point they get shunned if they even try to embrace that part of their identity. If a black man says he's proud to be black, that's perfectly fine. If a white man says he's proud to be white, people think "what's wrong with being any other skin color?"
- balls187 10y ago
  I think you've missed the point about racial identity. White people do get to embrace their identity, but how it's how they do it that matters. "White pride", for better or worse, is closely linked to "white supremacy." That is different than, https://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/ https://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/ which embraces and celebrates "white" culture, without demonizing other cultures.

lotso 10y ago

>At the end of the day, I think the only way to get past this is for everyone to be color blind. Sure, but let's acknowledge and then fix the systematic oppression in our country and implicit bias inherent in our people first.

webXL 10y ago
What "systematic oppression in our country"?
giardini 10y ago
In the movie "Bulworth", Warren Beatty's character, Sen. Jay Billington Bulworth, who is running for the Presidency, is asked how to solve racism. Part of his answer: "Rich people have always stayed on top by dividing white people from colored people, but white people got more in common with colored people then they do with rich people. We just gotta eliminate them - white people, black people, brown people, yellow people - get rid of 'em all. All we need is a voluntary, free spirited, open-ended program of procreative racial deconstruction. Everybody just gotta keep fuckin' everybody til they're all the same color." I think he's right! Of course Bulworth makes it look easy by falling in love with Nina (Halle Berrie). You can read Bulworth's full answer at http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118798/quotes http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118798/quotes

skywhopper 10y ago

Some or most of it may not be due to race, but enough of the behavior is truly different from what you and I experience (police harassment, store owner suspicion, people avoiding you on the street, as well as stuff the author didn't mention: explicit discrimination from landlords, banks, restaurant hosts, and more), that even the little things can add up more than they do for those of us who are closer to the "norm".

CWuestefeld 10y ago
police harassment, store owner suspicion I experience both of these things when I was younger. Not so much anymore. people avoiding you on the street As I related above, I've had moms keep their little girls away from me. Is the perceived potential danger from a middle-aged guy much different from that of a black guy? explicit discrimination from landlords Funny you should mention that. As it happens, my wife is Asian. I know for a fact that in at least two rental situations, we were given preferential treatment because of that. It cuts both ways. Again, as long as people keep pointing fingers at me and telling me I'm a racist, I will grow increasingly inured, and even angry. I think that in the end, you start to have the opposite of the effect you'd like.
- sangnoir 10y ago
  > I know for a fact that in at least two rental situations, we were given preferential treatment because of that. It cuts both ways Black people getting the short-end of the stick while Asians (allegedly) getting preferential isn't "cutting it both ways". > Again, as long as people keep pointing fingers at me and telling me I'm a racist, I will grow increasingly inured, and even angry. I think that in the end, you start to have the opposite of the effect you'd like. It's your prerogative. Not specifically directed to you, but it is important to note that racism is not a state of mind - it's the way you act. A lot of prejudiced people do not feel like racists even after their obviously racist tirade has been recorded. Being a racist is a terrible thing and they obviously aren't terrible people, so how can they possibly be racist?
  - CWuestefeld 10y ago

efuquen 10y ago

>Now, it's not right to sweep all of his concerns under the carpet. And yet that's exactly what you are doing in your entire comment, drawing parallels that are not equivalent and then sweeping under the rug the racial issues as nonexistent. You are discounting the experience of the vast majority of black Americans.