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That's real patriotic of him. By the way, wage arbitrage is old hat, if he was really hip to the scene he would have done that years ago. Care to backup your c

That's real patriotic of him. By the way, wage arbitrage is old hat, if he was really hip to the scene he would have done that years ago. Care to backup your claim that the bill will cost 2 to 5 times more? I can read xlsx format. Also never mind the fact the bill covers 30 million more people, ends insurance caps on care, lowers per capita costs, and rids the hideous practice of denying care because of preexisting conditions. The only set back in this bill is that we never got a Public Option, but we will get it, if it takes another 3 or 10 years, we will get insurance coverage that finally covers every single citizen in the United States.

ktsmith 17y ago
If this bill fails to meet expectations expect it to be used as a red herring for why government run health care can't work in the US. That will set back true health care reform by 10 to 20 years.
- rdtsc 17y ago
  Once they took the public option out. I stopped following. Yes, the foaming at the mouth Tea Baggers already won. This will be a flaming red herring for generations to come. Expect lobbyist, PR firm workers and paid town hall agitators everywhere to get nice bonuses at the end of the year.
  - fnid2 17y ago
    Are they still requiring everyone to get health insurance?
    - rdtsc 17y ago
      Not until 2014 apparently. Here are some highlights of highlights for HNers from from Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1914020220100319 http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1914020220100319) This year: - Insurance companies will be barred from dropping people from coverage when they get sick. Lifetime coverage limits will be eliminated and annual limits are to be restricted. - Insurers will be barred from excluding children for coverage because of pre-existing conditions. - Uninsured adults with a pre-existing conditions will be able to obtain health coverage through a new program that will expire once new insurance exchanges begin operating in 2014. - A tax credit becomes available for some small businesses to help provide coverage for workers. In 2011: - Employers are required to disclose the value of health benefits on employees' W-2 tax forms. - An annual fee is imposed on pharmaceutical companies according to market share. The fee does not apply to companies with sales of $5 million or less. In 2013: - The threshold for claiming medical expenses on itemized tax returns is raised to 10 percent from 7.5 percent of income. The threshold remains at 7.5 percent for the elderly through 2016. - A 2.9 percent excise tax in imposed on the sale of medical devices. Anything generally purchased at the retail level by the public is excluded from the tax. In 2014: - State health insurance exchanges for small businesses and individuals open. - Most people will be required to obtain health insurance coverage or pay a fine if they don't. Health-care tax credits become available to help people with incomes up to 400 percent of poverty purchase coverage on the exchange. - Health plans no longer can exclude people from coverage due to pre-existing conditions. - Employers with 50 or more workers who do not offer coverage face a fine of $2,000 for each employee if any worker receives subsidized insurance on the exchange. The first 30 employees aren't counted for the fine. - Health insurance companies begin paying a fee based on their market share. In 2018: - An excise tax on high cost employer-provided plans is imposed. The first $27,500 of a family plan and $10,200 for individual coverage is exempt from the tax. Higher levels are set for plans covering retirees and people in high risk professions.
joezydeco 17y ago
People need to understand what "insurance" really means. Unless you're 65 or over, you do NOT have health insurance in the US right now. You may think you do, but you don't. Good reading: http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/05/you-do-not-have-health-insurance/ http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/05/you-do-not-have-healt...
- fnid2 17y ago
  What most people have is employer insured employee health. If you lose your job, you're out. It makes as much sense to insure the health of your employees as it does to insure corporate vehicles, but employers don't think of it that way.
  - rdtsc 17y ago
    > If you lose your job, you're out. The corollary to that is that if you are 'too sick' then a reason to fire or lay you off will be found. So, in those terms, "if you have anything serious like cancer, then you don't really have health insurance".
chipsy 17y ago
I've heard (hearsay) that this bill will squeeze the private insurers to unprofitability in a few years. If true, that would be a strong way to get us to the public option.

ktsmith 17y ago

If this bill fails to meet expectations expect it to be used as a red herring for why government run health care can't work in the US. That will set back true health care reform by 10 to 20 years.

rdtsc 17y ago
Once they took the public option out. I stopped following. Yes, the foaming at the mouth Tea Baggers already won. This will be a flaming red herring for generations to come. Expect lobbyist, PR firm workers and paid town hall agitators everywhere to get nice bonuses at the end of the year.
- fnid2 17y ago
  Are they still requiring everyone to get health insurance?
  - rdtsc 17y ago
    Not until 2014 apparently. Here are some highlights of highlights for HNers from from Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1914020220100319 http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1914020220100319) This year: - Insurance companies will be barred from dropping people from coverage when they get sick. Lifetime coverage limits will be eliminated and annual limits are to be restricted. - Insurers will be barred from excluding children for coverage because of pre-existing conditions. - Uninsured adults with a pre-existing conditions will be able to obtain health coverage through a new program that will expire once new insurance exchanges begin operating in 2014. - A tax credit becomes available for some small businesses to help provide coverage for workers. In 2011: - Employers are required to disclose the value of health benefits on employees' W-2 tax forms. - An annual fee is imposed on pharmaceutical companies according to market share. The fee does not apply to companies with sales of $5 million or less. In 2013: - The threshold for claiming medical expenses on itemized tax returns is raised to 10 percent from 7.5 percent of income. The threshold remains at 7.5 percent for the elderly through 2016. - A 2.9 percent excise tax in imposed on the sale of medical devices. Anything generally purchased at the retail level by the public is excluded from the tax. In 2014: - State health insurance exchanges for small businesses and individuals open. - Most people will be required to obtain health insurance coverage or pay a fine if they don't. Health-care tax credits become available to help people with incomes up to 400 percent of poverty purchase coverage on the exchange. - Health plans no longer can exclude people from coverage due to pre-existing conditions. - Employers with 50 or more workers who do not offer coverage face a fine of $2,000 for each employee if any worker receives subsidized insurance on the exchange. The first 30 employees aren't counted for the fine. - Health insurance companies begin paying a fee based on their market share. In 2018: - An excise tax on high cost employer-provided plans is imposed. The first $27,500 of a family plan and $10,200 for individual coverage is exempt from the tax. Higher levels are set for plans covering retirees and people in high risk professions.

joezydeco 17y ago

People need to understand what "insurance" really means. Unless you're 65 or over, you do NOT have health insurance in the US right now. You may think you do, but you don't. Good reading: http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/05/you-do-not-have-health-insurance/ http://baselinescenario.com/2009/08/05/you-do-not-have-healt...

fnid2 17y ago
What most people have is employer insured employee health. If you lose your job, you're out. It makes as much sense to insure the health of your employees as it does to insure corporate vehicles, but employers don't think of it that way.
- rdtsc 17y ago
  > If you lose your job, you're out. The corollary to that is that if you are 'too sick' then a reason to fire or lay you off will be found. So, in those terms, "if you have anything serious like cancer, then you don't really have health insurance".

chipsy 17y ago

I've heard (hearsay) that this bill will squeeze the private insurers to unprofitability in a few years. If true, that would be a strong way to get us to the public option.