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A lot of issues surrounding the move to make anything and everything a "Service" are starting to become very clear. The issues with IoT devices being bricked, T

A lot of issues surrounding the move to make anything and everything a "Service" are starting to become very clear. The issues with IoT devices being bricked, Tesla 'ownership', and so on really do need scrutiny from a functional body with a hint of the public's interest at heart.

waterphone 10y ago
Those are all definite issues, but even in the case of simple computer hardware there's a problem when the manufacturer tries to lock the owners out of repairing with special screws, glue, etc., so that they can make money off the repairs themselves. New MacBook Pros have their batteries glued in and they can't really be replaced without replacing the entire top case they're glued to at the same time. They claim this is necessary for the thinness they want, but the MacBook Air is thinner and doesn't have a glued battery. My older MacBook Pro has a screwed in battery which uses tri-wing screws to keep people from replacing it themselves, but a $5 tool online can let you replace it anyway, and it takes literally just a couple minutes.
- wil421 10y ago
  MacBooks and MBPs are becoming throw away devices after 3 or 4 years. In 2013 I upgraded my 2011 MBP to have more RAM and a larger SSD. The new ones have the RAM soddared on so I guess I'll need to max it out when I buy and forfeit the possibility of a future upgrade. The custom SSD is expensive and only one maker seems to have decent quality ones.[1] I know laptops aren't increasing in power/abilities like they used to be. It's still nice to be able to add more to an old laptop and get a couple more years. [1]https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ssd/owc/macbook-pro-retina-display/2013-2014-2015 https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ssd/owc/macbook-pro-retina-d...
  - waterphone 10y ago
    I still have a 2011 as well, and have no intention of upgrading beyond it for the foreseeable future. It still works great, I've maxed out the RAM and added a 750 GB SSD, it does everything I need to do with the performance I need, and I'm happy. I've replaced the keyboard myself, and replaced the battery as well with an aftermarket replacement. I don't need anything newer, and I like being able to repair it myself for minimal cost.
  - Nullabillity 10y ago
    Or you could buy another brand of laptop instead, next time...?
    - wil421 10y ago
      Which other laptops support macOS? I have a company Dell that's horrible. Had many Vaios in the past that were great but the new ones aren't that great. Don't want a tablet or a touch screen as my main device or an Internet only device (chrome book).
      - Nullabillity 10y ago
        Personally I've mostly been using ASUSes lately, which IMO offer decent value and have generally been very easy to upgrade. > I have a company Dell that's horrible. Aren't company computers pretty generally crap? I'm not sure that's a fair comparison to draw...
        wil421 10y ago
        There are companies that allow you to choose a Mac or PC (or they just use Macs only). Where I work they are piloting a Mac option.
  - jolux 10y ago
    Except the custom SSD is unbelievably fast and soldered RAM inarguably takes up less space than RAM chips...
    - wil421 10y ago
      Except for the $200 premium apple chargers to go from a paltry 128 to 256 I could get double that from an SSD on Amazon... Not to mention the $200 premium they charge for RAM. I can get 16gb of crucial RAM for the older MBPs for $56.99. I'll pay to play eventually but I'm not happy about it.
      - jolux 10y ago
        Would the one off Amazon be as fast? Is Crucial RAM as high-binned as Apple RAM is?
        wil421 10y ago
        I doubt it's as fast but the flash is made by Samsung and if it's using triple layer cells I'm worried about the longevity of the drives. In 3 years of heavy use will the drive still have the same amount of space? The olds ones I could pop a new drive in as advancements are made in the SSD space, which I have done twice.
- Aelinsaar 10y ago
  They're doing it physically, or they're doing it legally, but through one avenue or another they're all starting to do it. 'Surface as a Service', all of what you said about Macs and their batteries, and so on.
twblalock 10y ago
> The issues with IoT devices being bricked, Tesla 'ownership', and so on really do need scrutiny from a functional body with a hint of the public's interest at heart. Oh great, another bureaucracy. Why should manufacturers be forced to make their products repairable by users? Why don't they have the right to make a non-repairable product, and let the market decide whether or not it succeeds? If people really want repairable products, some company will be able to make money by selling them. The market is an excellent way to track consumer preferences -- far better than a bureaucracy telling companies how to make their products.
- mindslight 10y ago
  Okay, but to be consistent you have to argue for getting rid of copyrights and patents as well. It makes no sense to regard these devices as "creative works", yet then deny that the end user has been sold an instance of this abstract structure.
  - twblalock 10y ago
    How exactly did you derive this from my argument? I see no logical connection.
    - zerohp 10y ago
      Patent and copyright are an external force created by a bureaucracy that prevents a free market for these products.
      - twblalock 10y ago
        It is certainly not a logical conclusion of my argument that all bureaucracies that interfere with the market ought to be abolished, or that the market should be free in all cases. My point was that in this particular case, the market would be a better way to solve the problem than a bureaucracy. Therefore, advocating the existence of some bureaucracies and not others does not contradict my argument, nor is it inconsistent with my argument.

waterphone 10y ago

Those are all definite issues, but even in the case of simple computer hardware there's a problem when the manufacturer tries to lock the owners out of repairing with special screws, glue, etc., so that they can make money off the repairs themselves. New MacBook Pros have their batteries glued in and they can't really be replaced without replacing the entire top case they're glued to at the same time. They claim this is necessary for the thinness they want, but the MacBook Air is thinner and doesn't have a glued battery. My older MacBook Pro has a screwed in battery which uses tri-wing screws to keep people from replacing it themselves, but a $5 tool online can let you replace it anyway, and it takes literally just a couple minutes.

wil421 10y ago
MacBooks and MBPs are becoming throw away devices after 3 or 4 years. In 2013 I upgraded my 2011 MBP to have more RAM and a larger SSD. The new ones have the RAM soddared on so I guess I'll need to max it out when I buy and forfeit the possibility of a future upgrade. The custom SSD is expensive and only one maker seems to have decent quality ones.[1] I know laptops aren't increasing in power/abilities like they used to be. It's still nice to be able to add more to an old laptop and get a couple more years. [1]https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ssd/owc/macbook-pro-retina-display/2013-2014-2015 https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ssd/owc/macbook-pro-retina-d...
- waterphone 10y ago
  I still have a 2011 as well, and have no intention of upgrading beyond it for the foreseeable future. It still works great, I've maxed out the RAM and added a 750 GB SSD, it does everything I need to do with the performance I need, and I'm happy. I've replaced the keyboard myself, and replaced the battery as well with an aftermarket replacement. I don't need anything newer, and I like being able to repair it myself for minimal cost.
- Nullabillity 10y ago
  Or you could buy another brand of laptop instead, next time...?
  - wil421 10y ago
    Which other laptops support macOS? I have a company Dell that's horrible. Had many Vaios in the past that were great but the new ones aren't that great. Don't want a tablet or a touch screen as my main device or an Internet only device (chrome book).
    - Nullabillity 10y ago
      Personally I've mostly been using ASUSes lately, which IMO offer decent value and have generally been very easy to upgrade. > I have a company Dell that's horrible. Aren't company computers pretty generally crap? I'm not sure that's a fair comparison to draw...
      - wil421 10y ago
        There are companies that allow you to choose a Mac or PC (or they just use Macs only). Where I work they are piloting a Mac option.
- jolux 10y ago
  Except the custom SSD is unbelievably fast and soldered RAM inarguably takes up less space than RAM chips...
  - wil421 10y ago
    Except for the $200 premium apple chargers to go from a paltry 128 to 256 I could get double that from an SSD on Amazon... Not to mention the $200 premium they charge for RAM. I can get 16gb of crucial RAM for the older MBPs for $56.99. I'll pay to play eventually but I'm not happy about it.
    - jolux 10y ago
      Would the one off Amazon be as fast? Is Crucial RAM as high-binned as Apple RAM is?
      - wil421 10y ago
        I doubt it's as fast but the flash is made by Samsung and if it's using triple layer cells I'm worried about the longevity of the drives. In 3 years of heavy use will the drive still have the same amount of space? The olds ones I could pop a new drive in as advancements are made in the SSD space, which I have done twice.
Aelinsaar 10y ago
They're doing it physically, or they're doing it legally, but through one avenue or another they're all starting to do it. 'Surface as a Service', all of what you said about Macs and their batteries, and so on.

twblalock 10y ago

> The issues with IoT devices being bricked, Tesla 'ownership', and so on really do need scrutiny from a functional body with a hint of the public's interest at heart. Oh great, another bureaucracy. Why should manufacturers be forced to make their products repairable by users? Why don't they have the right to make a non-repairable product, and let the market decide whether or not it succeeds? If people really want repairable products, some company will be able to make money by selling them. The market is an excellent way to track consumer preferences -- far better than a bureaucracy telling companies how to make their products.

mindslight 10y ago
Okay, but to be consistent you have to argue for getting rid of copyrights and patents as well. It makes no sense to regard these devices as "creative works", yet then deny that the end user has been sold an instance of this abstract structure.
- twblalock 10y ago
  How exactly did you derive this from my argument? I see no logical connection.
  - zerohp 10y ago
    Patent and copyright are an external force created by a bureaucracy that prevents a free market for these products.
    - twblalock 10y ago
      It is certainly not a logical conclusion of my argument that all bureaucracies that interfere with the market ought to be abolished, or that the market should be free in all cases. My point was that in this particular case, the market would be a better way to solve the problem than a bureaucracy. Therefore, advocating the existence of some bureaucracies and not others does not contradict my argument, nor is it inconsistent with my argument.