4 ms·

It seems safe to say that a JIT-trace -> Rust -> machine code compilation pipeline will probably never be fast enough to satisfy the requirements of a high-perf

It seems safe to say that a JIT-trace -> Rust -> machine code compilation pipeline will probably never be fast enough to satisfy the requirements of a high-performance JIT compiler.

Dylan16807 10y ago
Going the long way is just a 'proof of concept' sort of thing. You could design a high-performance JIT around equivalent safety mechanisms, and even prove the tricky parts.
- haberman 10y ago
  I'll believe it when I see it. :)
- azakai 10y ago
  In theory, but there isn't even good research on this, AFAIK. Fast JITs for languages like JavaScript require unsafety in the state of the art today.
- pcwalton 10y ago
  JavaScript's memory model is incompatible with that of Rust anyhow. You would want something like typed assembly language (Google this--it's a fertile research area). Very researchy though, with uncertain payoff. But note that a lot of security problems are not in the jitcode but rather in C++ implementations of JS objects and in the compiler itself.
  - nickpsecurity 10y ago
    BOOM! Typed, assembly language is exactly what I was going to recommend! TALC assembly, Chlipala's Bedrock, and Microsoft's CoqASM are Google keywords to use for anyone following along. CakeML or Verisoft's C0 could be useful for assembly generation but not as sure there. Tough constraints in JIT. Edited to add Myreen's JIT that I just remembered. http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download;jsessionid=F58CA1EA4E767AE101854A3B87BD0739?doi=10.1.1.154.6457&rep=rep1&type=pdf http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download;jsessionid=F58...
    - dman 10y ago
      CoqASM looks interesting! Is it publicly available anywhere?
      - nickpsecurity 10y ago
        Not that Im aware of. They might privately license it if asked. I mainly bring it up as something worth cloning by FOSS team given there's plenty details in paper. Meanwhile, look up Magnus Myreen's publications and software as they're on a row with verified everything.
  - moosingin3space 10y ago
    Typed assembly language would be an excellent addition to the Rust ecosystem -- there are still segments of software which should (or must) be implemented in assembly, so anything that can help make assembly easier to verify would be helpful to the ecosystem.

It seems safe to say that a JIT-trace -> Rust -> machine code compilation pipeline will probably never be fast enough to satisfy the requirements of a high-performance JIT compiler.

Dylan16807 10y ago

Going the long way is just a 'proof of concept' sort of thing. You could design a high-performance JIT around equivalent safety mechanisms, and even prove the tricky parts.

haberman 10y ago
I'll believe it when I see it. :)
azakai 10y ago
In theory, but there isn't even good research on this, AFAIK. Fast JITs for languages like JavaScript require unsafety in the state of the art today.
pcwalton 10y ago
JavaScript's memory model is incompatible with that of Rust anyhow. You would want something like typed assembly language (Google this--it's a fertile research area). Very researchy though, with uncertain payoff. But note that a lot of security problems are not in the jitcode but rather in C++ implementations of JS objects and in the compiler itself.
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  BOOM! Typed, assembly language is exactly what I was going to recommend! TALC assembly, Chlipala's Bedrock, and Microsoft's CoqASM are Google keywords to use for anyone following along. CakeML or Verisoft's C0 could be useful for assembly generation but not as sure there. Tough constraints in JIT. Edited to add Myreen's JIT that I just remembered. http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download;jsessionid=F58CA1EA4E767AE101854A3B87BD0739?doi=10.1.1.154.6457&rep=rep1&type=pdf http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download;jsessionid=F58...
  - dman 10y ago
    CoqASM looks interesting! Is it publicly available anywhere?
    - nickpsecurity 10y ago
      Not that Im aware of. They might privately license it if asked. I mainly bring it up as something worth cloning by FOSS team given there's plenty details in paper. Meanwhile, look up Magnus Myreen's publications and software as they're on a row with verified everything.
- moosingin3space 10y ago
  Typed assembly language would be an excellent addition to the Rust ecosystem -- there are still segments of software which should (or must) be implemented in assembly, so anything that can help make assembly easier to verify would be helpful to the ecosystem.