4 ms·

There are many fundamental problems with hedonism, but hedonism avoids dealing with the problems because that's its nature.

• delluminatus 10y ago
  Like what?
  • ctrlalt_g 10y ago
    Mercy killings and martyrdom (or any beliefs that optimize for the afterlife)
• ZenoArrow 10y ago
  What are the inherent problems with hedonism?
  • seanp2k2 10y ago
    Small example: not taking care of your parents when they get old because it's not pleasurable.
    • ZenoArrow 10y ago
      That is a good example. On the other hand, whilst hedonists may shirk some responsibilities, perhaps their focus on pleasure also ends up improving their ability at finding pleasure in the situations they find themselves in. If you intend to find pleasure, you may find it easier to recognise the opportunities to create it when they arise. So to go back to your example of looking after parents when they get old, perhaps a hedonist would be resistant if that involved acting as a servant, but may be good company for them by playing games, telling stories, etc... Not all acts of compassion require self-sacrifice.
      • ctrlalt_g 10y ago
        Finding value in pleasure is different than saying that only pleasure has value. It seems to me that a hedonist would not bother playing games or telling stories with senile parents, since only the games and the (pleasant) stories have value, and that they would do these things in more pleasant company instead. Either way, there just doesn't seem to be any reason to deny that accepting and knowing pain is an important part of the human experience.
        • ZenoArrow 10y ago
          http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=hedonist http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=hedonist Hedonist - "a person who believes that the pursuit of pleasure is the most important thing in life; a pleasure-seeker." For the hedonist, pleasure is something to pursue. By having this focus, it gives you more experience of creating pleasure. "a hedonist would not bother playing games or telling stories with senile parents" Do you know any hedonists? I know some. They look to make situations more fun (for themselves, but this tends to involve taking others along for the ride). Perhaps you don't believe it's possible to have fun with old senile people, I'd say it's more than possible and I'm not even a hedonist (i.e. someone who looks for fun in a high proportion of their time, someone who is good at doing so).
          • ctrlalt_g 10y ago
            http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/hedonism/ http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/hedonism/ "Psychological or motivational hedonism claims that only pleasure or pain motivates us. Ethical or evaluative hedonism claims that only pleasure has worth or value and only pain or displeasure has disvalue or the opposite of worth." I'm mainly concerned with the second category, since the first is more of a question for psychology and neuroscience. Anyway, you're constructing a false ideal. Even if we use Google's poorly defined and colloquial version of hedonism, the more representative real world examples are cases of pain avoidance, overeating, risky behavior, gambling/shopping addiction, and so on. > Perhaps you don't believe it's possible to have fun with old senile people What?
    • milcron 10y ago
      I think that's using too narrow a definition of pleasurable. Isn't the (pleasurable) time spent with your parents worth the trade-off of caring for them? Hedonism isn't necessarily restricted to physical pleasure. There are emotional and intellectual pleasures as well.
      • ctrlalt_g 10y ago
        You can move around the definition of pleasure, but then you end up with situations where pain as a means to pleasure is indistinguishable from pain as equal to pleasure, which undermines the whole premise of hedonism (that only pleasure has value).
        • milcron 10y ago
          How could you possibly end up in a situation where pain is equal to pleasure? I think pain would only be considered positive when it leads to greater pleasure. Epicurus has a great hedonistic philosophy [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurus ], here are some abridged excerpts from the wiki page: Epicurus' philosophy is based on the theory that all good and bad derive from the sensations of what he defined as pleasure and pain: What is good is what is pleasurable, and what is bad is what is painful. If pain is chosen over pleasure in some cases it is only because it leads to a greater pleasure. Epicurus explicitly warned against overindulgence because it often leads to pain. Although Epicurus has been commonly misunderstood to advocate the rampant pursuit of pleasure, his teachings were more about striving for an absence of pain and suffering, both physical and mental, and a state of satiation and tranquility that was free of the fear of death and the retribution of the gods. Humans have a wide range of pleasures, of varying degrees of richness and sophistication. People sometimes object to hedonism on the grounds that it makes us no better than swine in the mud. But I think that reflects a poor opinion of humanity. Don't we get pleasure from symphonies, poetry, and great works of art? Epicurus himself said he could be content with water, bread, weak wine and a "pot of cheese".
          • ctrlalt_g 10y ago
• marcosdumay 10y ago
  Thus, no problem. The fact that if it fails to cause a fast death, it causes a big deal of suffering to the individual is not out of irony. But is still not a problem for it.
  • ctrlalt_g 10y ago
    Case in point.
• mcguire 10y ago
  Epicurus had some thoughts regarding avoiding the problems with hedonism while still basing 'the good' on pleasure.