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I think, that meaning can be only defined in the case, when one is immortal. If I'm mortal, everything I do, good or bad, is meaningless for consciousness, beca

I think, that meaning can be only defined in the case, when one is immortal. If I'm mortal, everything I do, good or bad, is meaningless for consciousness, because it will cease to exist and everything that will happen after death will have no effect on it. Any meaning, that's is defined while one is mortal is no more than illusion, in which people immerse themselves for whatever reason.

colordrops 10y ago
I agree. One workaround is to identify with your family or humanity instead of just yourself, then there is a shot at immortality. There are lots of instances of individuals dying in service of a greater good, such as the amoeba Dictyostelid, which when food runs out, climb on top of each other to form a stalk and then die, allowing the rest to climb to the top and form a spore which then explodes and spreads the rest of the amoeba toward greener pastures. Depending on the lifecycle stage, the Dictyostelid takes on the form of a group of individuals, a single animal-like creature, or a single plant like creature. Pretty amazing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictyostelid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictyostelid
Mahn 10y ago
That's a bit pessimist, isn't it? It's a little bit like saying that living is not worth it because you'll die anyway. I think what we do is not about an indefinite future impact or goal, but about the how it impacts us and the people around us today, right now. I see meaning as something not like a hard drive, where you store data once you are done, but like RAM, where you read, write and modify on the fly, constantly, while the machine is powered on. Sure, at some point the machine will be powered off you'll be gone, but meaning doesn't have to be everlasting to exist and have an impact.
- JoeAltmaier 10y ago
  So much this. For some reason humans have no appreciation for the value of time. Because a relationship ends, doesn't mean it wasn't good while it lasted. Because I have something now, doesn't mean I will have it forever.
- freerobots 10y ago
  I go back and forth between your perspective and the previous posters perspective. In terms of the scope of the universe my behavior is impact-less but as I limit scope my impact grows. I prefer this perspective because it avoids self importance - an attribute that in my opinion does more harm than good.
gkya 10y ago
If there is no afterlife, then I'm immortal: the end of my life is equivalent to the end of the universe, end of time. And in my infinite (!) life I associate certain understandings to certain things and certain events: that's meaning. This is not particularly an illusion, as it's real and there in my mind, and one way or another, abstract things exist. The illusion is the universal phenomenon itself, a spectacle we briefly assist and affect. If there is an afterlife, I'm immortal. Thus again meaning exists, this time so in accordance with your definition thereof. Therefore, meaning exists.
amelius 10y ago
Let me explain that you are in fact immortal. First, you have to see that there is no reason for your brain and my brain to have different "souls" (whatever that may mean). It only appears to you that we are different beings because there is no strong neurological connection between our brains. But there is a connection (albeit very weak), in e.g. electromagnetic and gravity forces between our brains. The universe, of course, really doesn't care about all this. So you could say that we are both one being, and we are one with the universe. This means that we (and everybody else) will only die when the universe ceases to exist. Which is not likely to happen soon, so for all practical purposes, you are immortal.
- colordrops 10y ago
  Another implication of this line of reasoning is that since there are no inherent boundaries between anything, the universe itself is thus a living, conscious being.
- adwn 10y ago
  > Let me explain that you are in fact immortal. [...] so for all practical purposes, you are immortal. That is not how the vast majority of people define "immortal". Unless you're aiming for some kind of uplifting, motivational speech?
- gnaritas 10y ago
  > This means that we (and everybody else) will only die when the universe ceases to exist. You're playing a trick there by jumping from brain to atoms, but people do not define themselves by their atoms, but by their consciousness which will not survive death making what you're saying about all being one rather meaningless. So.. > so for all practical purposes, you are immortal. Not even close, because I cease to exist the second my brain dies and whatever happens to my atoms after my mind is gone is completely meaningless.
DigitalJack 10y ago
Well, I think this is easily falsifiable. You are here because your ancestors, long deceased, reproduced. Clearly their life had meaning as expressed by your existence. Whether or not they continue to exist in some other reality has no bearing on the fact that you exist now, thanks to them.
drjesusphd 10y ago
Not necessarily. We still have no evidence that consciousness exists off of Earth. The scariest solution to the Fermi paradox is that we are in fact alone, or at least first. One can even stop just short of solipism and consider the possibility that humans are the only consciousness in the universe. Granted, this is just a possibility, perhaps a very small one. But we know so little about such things. My point is that you may have far more of an effect on Consciousness than you think.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > We still have no evidence that consciousness exists off of Earth. We still have no objective definition of consciousness that would let us determine what it is that would be evidence that consciousness exists, on or off of Earth.

colordrops 10y ago

I agree. One workaround is to identify with your family or humanity instead of just yourself, then there is a shot at immortality. There are lots of instances of individuals dying in service of a greater good, such as the amoeba Dictyostelid, which when food runs out, climb on top of each other to form a stalk and then die, allowing the rest to climb to the top and form a spore which then explodes and spreads the rest of the amoeba toward greener pastures. Depending on the lifecycle stage, the Dictyostelid takes on the form of a group of individuals, a single animal-like creature, or a single plant like creature. Pretty amazing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictyostelid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictyostelid

Mahn 10y ago

That's a bit pessimist, isn't it? It's a little bit like saying that living is not worth it because you'll die anyway. I think what we do is not about an indefinite future impact or goal, but about the how it impacts us and the people around us today, right now. I see meaning as something not like a hard drive, where you store data once you are done, but like RAM, where you read, write and modify on the fly, constantly, while the machine is powered on. Sure, at some point the machine will be powered off you'll be gone, but meaning doesn't have to be everlasting to exist and have an impact.

JoeAltmaier 10y ago
So much this. For some reason humans have no appreciation for the value of time. Because a relationship ends, doesn't mean it wasn't good while it lasted. Because I have something now, doesn't mean I will have it forever.
freerobots 10y ago
I go back and forth between your perspective and the previous posters perspective. In terms of the scope of the universe my behavior is impact-less but as I limit scope my impact grows. I prefer this perspective because it avoids self importance - an attribute that in my opinion does more harm than good.

gkya 10y ago

If there is no afterlife, then I'm immortal: the end of my life is equivalent to the end of the universe, end of time. And in my infinite (!) life I associate certain understandings to certain things and certain events: that's meaning. This is not particularly an illusion, as it's real and there in my mind, and one way or another, abstract things exist. The illusion is the universal phenomenon itself, a spectacle we briefly assist and affect. If there is an afterlife, I'm immortal. Thus again meaning exists, this time so in accordance with your definition thereof. Therefore, meaning exists.

amelius 10y ago

Let me explain that you are in fact immortal. First, you have to see that there is no reason for your brain and my brain to have different "souls" (whatever that may mean). It only appears to you that we are different beings because there is no strong neurological connection between our brains. But there is a connection (albeit very weak), in e.g. electromagnetic and gravity forces between our brains. The universe, of course, really doesn't care about all this. So you could say that we are both one being, and we are one with the universe. This means that we (and everybody else) will only die when the universe ceases to exist. Which is not likely to happen soon, so for all practical purposes, you are immortal.

colordrops 10y ago
Another implication of this line of reasoning is that since there are no inherent boundaries between anything, the universe itself is thus a living, conscious being.
adwn 10y ago
> Let me explain that you are in fact immortal. [...] so for all practical purposes, you are immortal. That is not how the vast majority of people define "immortal". Unless you're aiming for some kind of uplifting, motivational speech?
gnaritas 10y ago
> This means that we (and everybody else) will only die when the universe ceases to exist. You're playing a trick there by jumping from brain to atoms, but people do not define themselves by their atoms, but by their consciousness which will not survive death making what you're saying about all being one rather meaningless. So.. > so for all practical purposes, you are immortal. Not even close, because I cease to exist the second my brain dies and whatever happens to my atoms after my mind is gone is completely meaningless.

DigitalJack 10y ago

Well, I think this is easily falsifiable. You are here because your ancestors, long deceased, reproduced. Clearly their life had meaning as expressed by your existence. Whether or not they continue to exist in some other reality has no bearing on the fact that you exist now, thanks to them.

drjesusphd 10y ago

Not necessarily. We still have no evidence that consciousness exists off of Earth. The scariest solution to the Fermi paradox is that we are in fact alone, or at least first. One can even stop just short of solipism and consider the possibility that humans are the only consciousness in the universe. Granted, this is just a possibility, perhaps a very small one. But we know so little about such things. My point is that you may have far more of an effect on Consciousness than you think.

dragonwriter 10y ago
> We still have no evidence that consciousness exists off of Earth. We still have no objective definition of consciousness that would let us determine what it is that would be evidence that consciousness exists, on or off of Earth.