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I just finished an EU funded CompSci Masters degree in Wales, the poorest country in the UK and it's devastatingly sad to think that once the EU research fundin
by codecurve 10y ago
I just finished an EU funded CompSci Masters degree in Wales, the poorest country in the UK and it's devastatingly sad to think that once the EU research funding stops, those opportunities will be gone forever for future students coming through the department.
There aren't enough large tech companies in the area for there to be any sponsored degrees available, which probably means that when the funding finishes, the research will start to dry up and the interesting researchers will leave with it. Take away the research and what's left is a department of third-rate lecturers. That's not an inspiring way to learn.
Will the NHS get some of the £350m? Maybe, maybe not. It's likely to be up for discussion. Will the post-Brexit government allot research funding for CS departments in North Wales? Not a chance.
- niccolop 10y agoAgreed, and think what it will mean for non-STEM research funding.
- tosseraccount 10y agoPrivate, endowment and British funds can make up for the EU. Getting out from under EU regulations and negotiating as a free agent is a better deal for most Brits. [ edit: must have touched a nerve. +1 to -4 in an instant. ]
- creshal 10y ago> Private, endowment […] funds can make up for the EU Ah, yes. Private charities providing public services, the driving force behind the rise of communism in the 19th century. > Getting out from under EU regulations and negotiating as a free agent is a better deal for most Brits. People keep saying that, but why? Britain is now in a much worse negotiation position than before.
- peteretep 10y agoCould you specify some of the "EU regulations" that we should be getting out from under?
- teekert 10y agoWell, for example all the bad stuff TTIP will bring the rest of Europe? Everybody here is pissed about TTIP. Now the Brits vote to get into a position to do something about such undemocratic bs and suddenly they are the bad guys? I see the pro-EU marketing campaign in which all the smart, rich and famous people that you should want to be like, say pro EU things, is working well. Even among the intellectual HN crowd. All this anti UK sentiment is caused by fear mongering from the pro-EU lobby. The Brits are our friends, but just like the Russians, they don't dance to the tune of the power hungry EU bureaucrats and the propaganda machine is suddenly aimed in their direction.
- pjc50 10y agoPeople keep talking about how the UK will be able to negotiate its own market access deals after brexit. What that means in practice is that if TTIP goes ahead it will be the only route to US trade deals. Also TTIP is the kind of think I can see a Conservative government signing up to immediately. The UK is far more "free market" than the rest of Europe.
- lhnz 10y ago> if TTIP goes ahead it will be the only route to US trade deals. That's just not true [0] [1]. There's been a lot of movement relating to countries being open to global free trade [2]. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2016/06/29/paul-ryan-urges-new-trade-deal-with-the-u-k-but-others-say-its-too-soon/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2016/06/29/... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jul/11/brexit-is-a-golden-opportunity-for-stronger-us-uk-trade-ties-says-osborne https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jul/11/brexit-is-a... [2] http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/08/business-minister-sajid-javid-opens-preliminary-trade-talks-with-india http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/08/business-min...
- welterde 10y ago> Well, for example all the bad stuff TTIP will bring the rest of Europe? Everybody here is pissed about TTIP. Now the Brits vote to get into a position to do something about such undemocratic bs and suddenly they are the bad guys? As far as I understand it the UK was a very strong driving force behind TTIP.. Getting us into this mess and then leaving before the consequences start to affect you, isn't very nice to say the least.
- wrong_variable 10y agoIf private endowment wanted to fund those researchers - they would have already done so, since they respond to market forces and not on charity towards North Wales. The reason why the EU was providing funding was because market forces were unwilling to.
- niccolop 10y agoI don't doubt there are funds in the UK, but so far it's been far more common to rely on the EU for projects that require a longer or more nebulous time horizon, with little or no payback. You only need to look at startup funding: http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2016/06/24/2167618/the-risk-to-uk-startup-funding-after-brexit/ http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2016/06/24/2167618/the-risk-to-uk... And you realize there will be repercussions for funding and endowments too.
- throwaway-hn123 10y ago> [ edit: must have touched a nerve. +1 to -4 in an instant. ] Or perhaps people simply disagree with you, tosser.
- sctb 10y agoPersonal attacks are not OK on Hacker News, even clever ones.
- throwaway-hn123 10y agoHis name is tosser. Where's the attack?
- sievebrain 10y agoYou're talking about a government that recently made computer programming class a mandatory part of the high school curriculum. Your leap from "UK exits the EU" to "there will no longer be funding for computer science research" is based purely on your own emotions, not rational analysis. Like so much else I hear from pro-EU people these days.
- pjc50 10y agoThe current funding is going away and there has not yet been an announcement of its replacement. The government has however spent years implementing "austerity" and attempting to cut public spending. It's very optimistic to think that any more money will be forthcoming.
- DanBC 10y agoImportantly the government has announced more austerity after the referendum.
- saboot 10y agoYeah, you did not understand what he wrote. He specially mentions his program in North Wales which relies on EU funding.
- ck425 10y agoYou can't deny there will be less funding, given the amount of funding we receive from the EU. Though hopefully the new PM will prioritise investment in research and hopefully given the strong technology sector in the UK CompSci will get a reasonable share of it. But that's still to be seen and given May's attitude toward technology experts and level of knowledge during the discussions around the Snoopers Charter I'm sceptical of her understanding and appreciation of the importance of the technology sector.
- sievebrain 10y agoThe EU doesn't "fund" anything, the UK funds the EU by paying in more than it gets back out. It's literally the UK's own money being recycled through Brussels, except with extra rules and exchange rate risks thrown in. Whether or not research funding is cut is an entirely open question right now. Maybe it will be: the EU has effectively been overriding the austerity policies everyone else in the economy has had to deal with, and academias has benefited from that. But as no policies have been announced yet, nobody can know what will happen.
- philk10 10y agoand that £350m a week that is supposedly sent to the EU is more like £140m
- jcranmer 10y agoIIRC, £350m/wk is the gross amount, £140m/wk is the net.
- dajohnson89 10y agoSo the EU payments were taxed? By whom?
- pjc50 10y agoThat's net of money paid to the UK by the EU. Like the aforementioned Welsh CS funding.
- Blahah 10y agoYup, and only naively accounts for the cash flow. It doesn't consider any of the downstream benefits of the single market, free movement, or coherent continental legislation which together will completely swamp the measly £140m/week net cash contribution we make.
- lhnz 10y agoThe UK isn't a protectionist state, they'll do what they can to ensure global free trade. Firstly, to keep access to the EU's 'single market', and secondly to attempt agile free trade with other countries around the world. It'll be interesting to look in 10 years and see who is more protectionist and less open.
- tankenmate 10y agoBut of course that means staying in the EEA for the moment at least; which means freedom of movement, EU regulations, but now with much reduced influence... CETA for example took 5.5 years to negotiate and of course it still needs to be ratified. On the other hand if the UK leaves the EU and the EEA then under EU rules it will need to wait until it fully leaves before it can negotiate a CETA style trade agreement. In the mean time one could assume that UK / EU trade would follow WTO norms. [EDIT] fixed typo
- misja111 10y agoThe UK is a net payer to the EU. For instance in 2015 alone, UK's net payment to the EU was about 8.5 billion pounds. So after the Brexit there will be more than enough money to continue the research funding. But as you mention already, it is another question if the government will be wanting to pay it. But is this really such a bad thing? The difference will that instead of the EU, the UK itself will decide which of its research projects it wants to fund.
- djaychela 10y ago"More than enough money" (and certainly the figures I've seen people bandying about) assumes that the cost of accessing the EU market (which I think we will have to pay) would be zero. I think it will be a significant proportion of the amount we were paying (net) to the EU, and in addition there will be other costs which people are just starting to cotton onto as well. The main thing is that at the moment, we really have no idea at all what the financial costs will be - particularly of accessing the EU market - and until we do then a lot of this must hang in the balance.
- sievebrain 10y agoWTO max tariffs (worst case scenario) are 4%. But the currency has weaked by about 8%. So even if max tariffs are applied tomorrow, UK goods are still cheaper to buy in the EU than before! In practice, if the EU doesn't strike a deal with the UK (which it won't) then I think it will suffer more exits. Because the EU has spent years trying to sign free trade deals with America, Canada and other places. If it turns around and says "we will give those countries tariff-free access to our markets but not the UK" this will send a powerful message to all EU citizens that this is not an organisation with their best interests at heart.
- SlashmanX 10y agoIf they do give a deal to the UK wouldn't that trigger more exits? If countries see they can leave the EU and still get a trade deal they'd be more likely to leave than if they saw the UK get shafted (so to speak).
- giardini 10y ago"...the research will start to dry up and the interesting researchers will leave with it. Take away the research and what's left is a department of third-rate lecturers. That's not an inspiring way to learn." Do researchers in Wales teach much anyway? I know that, in the USA, researchers teach as little as possible. Schools should get back to the proper job of teaching students. Research is best done by private institutions with their own funding. Government education funding should be used for education proper, not fluffing a featherbed for Nobel laureates.
- mc32 10y agoCouple of things: The UK has premier scientists. The EU would be remiss to not find a way to work things out. If not, I'm sure other places will pick them up. These are field leading scientists. Two, upper middle class still don't get it. They're still tone deaf. The Brexit was the working class demanding what was promised them, which was prosperity that never came. Instead they got sold out for a cheaper European work force (not faulting the Poles for wanting better, if just is) while the middle upper classes (professional class) got to enjoy the spoils and got to snicker at the working class for being upended by outsiders. The professional class are now complaining that they will lose their privileged position... A position the working class never got to taste. So, there it is, they called in the promise and foolish or not, they at least are doing it by their own hands rather than that of the tone deaf professional class who never cared for the working class. Of course, the professional class, showing their class in style, as they are wont to do, go about castigating the working class by telling them how provincial and selfish they are... But just look who is complaining about losing their privileged status.
- TheOtherHobbes 10y agoThe UK's premier scientists can always get jobs elsewhere - and probably will. After a while, if research funding dries up, there won't be any more premier scientists being produced. Two, if you vote for people who are going to deny you prosperity, you don't get prosperity. If the working classes don't understand that, it's not the fault of the professional classes who - mostly - do. The reality is that some of those hoity toity Islington socialists care a lot more about the rest of the country than anyone else does. The upper classes are happy to con the people they think of as plebs with flag waving, a bit of bunting, and wall to wall lies. You can't blame the middle classes if they get shouted down with name calling for pointing this out.
- mc32 10y agoI still don't hear the voice of the working class in your response. Never the less, both the Tories and Labour fleeced the working class with the promise that they too could enjoy the prosperity the professional class would get to enjoy. The problem with socialists with respect to the working class, is that they treat the working classes all as one. The native working class are subverted for the non native working class. They didn't work hard enough for their own working class. The English and Welsh working class want the UK government to work and care for them, then, when they meet that, they can work on their pan- European workin class... However, the UK working class were given the short shrift, and now they are demanding what was promised them. And, lead to what it may, there is satisfaction in having your hand on your destiny, because frankly, leaving it in the hands of others have left them holding the empty bag of promises. [s/subterfuged/subverted]