6 ms·

I'm not strongly opinionated on what's wrong with the euro currency, but this is a pretty major issue with the EU generally. There isn't a coherent democratic p

by netcan 10y ago

I'm not strongly opinionated on what's wrong with the euro currency, but this is a pretty major issue with the EU generally. There isn't a coherent democratic polity, it's being governed like a trade agreement while acting like much more. I think Brexit highlighted this big hole. Who spoke for the EU? You'd occasionally see a headshot with a "EU President" title attached to it, which would then be dismissed in favour of the opinion of Merkel or Hollande who didn't even notionally represent the Brttish in any way. If the EU is to govern so much, it needs a polity that Europeans jointly elect, with representatives that genuinely represent the EU, not local interests. The EU needs a face, parties with cross-border support, democracy, mandate... Even the UN has more of this than the EU. At least it has a face representing it. I'm not sure this leads to better monetary policy (I don't really believe we confidently know what better monetary policy is), but I do think it's necessary if the EU is going to govern so much.

mattmanser 10y ago
There was one point where the EU commission president stuck his fingers in his ears and walked away when being asked about Brexit by journalists. That would be career suicide for a politician, but not for EU bureaucrats. That's the sort of contempt they hold for the populace of the EU, they couldn't care at all.
- Thimothy 10y ago
  Well, that's kind of what the Republicans have been doing when being asked about Trump, lately.
visarga 10y ago
Direct voting, like the UK referendum, can lead to impossible situations. People vote for what they wished was the reality, and many times it's just not possible.
- guard-of-terra 10y ago
  You can learn to vote reasonably only if you do it.
- tomp 10y ago
  I think it's the exact opposite. Direct democracy would lead to people voting for what they want much more granularly, whereas the Brexit vote was once-in-a-generation opportunity that conflated many many different issues (immigration, "ever closer union", single market, London vs. the rest of England, England vs. Scotland, economic inequality, ...). I people were given a chance to vote for each of these issues separately, I would expect much saner (and less contradictory) outcomes...
rubber_duck 10y ago
>The EU needs a face, parties with cross-border support, democracy, mandate... You know what's funny - US is constantly railing about inequality - meanwhile median income between poorest and richest EU members is close to 10x - in the US it's ~2-3 between states. It's no longer "the 1% are exploiting us" narrative and "democracy will save us" - these are similarly sized countries where people are 10x richer in one compared to the other. And that's just one easily quantifiable difference of how diverse the EU actually is, broader point is - these are different countries with different culture, history, religion, economies, language, ethnicity, etc. pretending you can bunch them all up in to a single unit and that democracy makes any sense in this context is ridiculous.
- kbart 10y ago
  "meanwhile median income between poorest and richest EU members is close to 10x - in the US it's ~2-3 between states" That's comparing apples to oranges. Country != state.
  - rubber_duck 10y ago
    >Country != state. This is my point
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >That's comparing apples to oranges Which is totally valid, since both are fruit, and we can e.g. compare their nutricional value to decide what to eat. Or their selling price, to decide what to buy. Etc. >Country != state That's kind of the parent's whole point. That countries are the closest thing the EU has to states, and that they must get much closer to states for EU to function properly.
  - matwood 10y ago
    For the EU to work, the countries need to function more as states. Maybe this is just the hard road for the EU to get to something resembling the states, or it will fall apart as a failed experiment.
    - 10y ago

by netcan 10y ago

mattmanser 10y ago

There was one point where the EU commission president stuck his fingers in his ears and walked away when being asked about Brexit by journalists. That would be career suicide for a politician, but not for EU bureaucrats. That's the sort of contempt they hold for the populace of the EU, they couldn't care at all.

Thimothy 10y ago
Well, that's kind of what the Republicans have been doing when being asked about Trump, lately.

visarga 10y ago

Direct voting, like the UK referendum, can lead to impossible situations. People vote for what they wished was the reality, and many times it's just not possible.

guard-of-terra 10y ago
You can learn to vote reasonably only if you do it.
tomp 10y ago
I think it's the exact opposite. Direct democracy would lead to people voting for what they want much more granularly, whereas the Brexit vote was once-in-a-generation opportunity that conflated many many different issues (immigration, "ever closer union", single market, London vs. the rest of England, England vs. Scotland, economic inequality, ...). I people were given a chance to vote for each of these issues separately, I would expect much saner (and less contradictory) outcomes...

rubber_duck 10y ago

>The EU needs a face, parties with cross-border support, democracy, mandate... You know what's funny - US is constantly railing about inequality - meanwhile median income between poorest and richest EU members is close to 10x - in the US it's ~2-3 between states. It's no longer "the 1% are exploiting us" narrative and "democracy will save us" - these are similarly sized countries where people are 10x richer in one compared to the other. And that's just one easily quantifiable difference of how diverse the EU actually is, broader point is - these are different countries with different culture, history, religion, economies, language, ethnicity, etc. pretending you can bunch them all up in to a single unit and that democracy makes any sense in this context is ridiculous.

kbart 10y ago
"meanwhile median income between poorest and richest EU members is close to 10x - in the US it's ~2-3 between states" That's comparing apples to oranges. Country != state.
- rubber_duck 10y ago
  >Country != state. This is my point
- coldtea 10y ago
  >That's comparing apples to oranges Which is totally valid, since both are fruit, and we can e.g. compare their nutricional value to decide what to eat. Or their selling price, to decide what to buy. Etc. >Country != state That's kind of the parent's whole point. That countries are the closest thing the EU has to states, and that they must get much closer to states for EU to function properly.
- matwood 10y ago
  For the EU to work, the countries need to function more as states. Maybe this is just the hard road for the EU to get to something resembling the states, or it will fall apart as a failed experiment.
  - 10y ago