3 ms·

I'm sorry was this an April Fool joke? By definition a 'phenotype' is the expressed traits of a genotype. As far as I know there is no known gene or set of ge

by ascotan 10y ago

I'm sorry was this an April Fool joke? By definition a 'phenotype' is the expressed traits of a genotype. As far as I know there is no known gene or set of genes which express the 'phenotype' of 'Educational Attainment'. I looked at the paper and the author provides no methods to replicate his study. For example, there is no discussion as to the SNP markers he was tracking to associate the 'phenotype' of EA. What the author is implying here is that there is a gene for 'educational attainment' that is becoming more common in the population in general due to selection pressure. I'm sorry but this is total hogwash. Anyone that correlates educational attainment to genetics is following a 'chopstick' gene. Imagine that you correlate the ability to use chopsticks to genetic markers. What you'll find is that people with black hair and brown eyes have a much greater ability to use chopsticks then people with blond hair and blue eyes. You could even produce some pretty convincing graphs about this. However, as we all know the usage of chopsticks is cultural not genetic. There is nothing to prevent blond haired, blue eye people from using chopsticks genetically. In fact you can correlate any two things that have no relationship to each other and find a correlation. For instance, the sun coming up in the morning and traffic congestion. They correlate, but have no causal relationship. i.e the sun does not cause traffic.

sdiepend 10y ago
When the sun goes up, it's easier to do your work or job. So people get to work and cause traffic jams.
timeu 10y ago
Correct me if I am wrong, but I though the chopstick gene example has more to do with population structure confounding than with the heritability of the trait? For example one could make a similar example with malaria resistance and skin color.
nabla9 10y ago
>My results imply that natural selection has been slowly favoring lower EA in both females and males lower educational attainment, not higher see: GWAS of 126,559 Individuals Identifies Genetic Variants Associated with Educational Attainment (one of the authors is Beauchamp) http://science.sciencemag.org/content/340/6139/1467 http://science.sciencemag.org/content/340/6139/1467 >Three independent single-nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) are genome-wide significant (rs9320913, rs11584700, rs4851266), and all three replicate. Estimated effects sizes are small (coefficient of determination R2 ≈ 0.02%), approximately 1 month of schooling per allele. A linear polygenic score from all measured SNPs accounts for ≈2% of the variance in both educational attainment and cognitive function
- ralfd 10y ago
  So ... less educated people are getting more kids? (or the inverse: more educated people are getting less kids)
  - toasterlovin 10y ago
    Yeah, this should be the case just based on the logistics involved. Higher education typically takes place during the years when a woman is able to have children. And to go a step further: generally people obtain higher education for a purpose: to further a career. So, then, after schooling is over, there will be a career to make, further reducing the number of years available for a woman to have children. So this should be the case based on practical matters alone.
- ascotan 10y ago
  Sorry but these types of studies strongly smack of eugenics. This reminds of Stephen Jay Gould's book "The mismeasure of a man". If the SNPs are inherited (and possibly racially so) and a lower educational attainment should be associated with a lack of native intelligence, can we then conclude from this study that certain groups have a lower IQ and therefore are genetically pre-disposed to have less educational attainment? Can we test for these people in the general population and prevent them from breeding? Are these SNPs associated with criminal propensities or mental issues and therefore correlate with a lack of educational attainment? We could then identify them and drill holes in their heads: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy Science is littered with shoddy peer accepted studies correlating IQ with genetics. This seems to be the 21st century version.
mirimir 10y ago
> What the author is implying here is that there is a gene for 'educational attainment' that is becoming more common in the population in general due to selection pressure. No, actually, he finds that there was negative selection pressure on educational attainment. Edit: You beat me, nabla9 ;)
CPLX 10y ago
The sun clearly does have a causal relationship with traffic, as traffic is exclusively the product of humans who are not sleeping, and is powered by the decayed products of photosynthesis. You may wish to choose a better example. Also the study is apparently proposing that natural selection is favoring low educational achievement. This, not incidentally, is the fundamental premise of the movie Idiocracy, and certainly has a plausible logic to it, though I am wholly unqualified to judge the methodology of this study.
deepnet 10y ago
Robert Plomin has proved a genetic influence for UK A-Level (exam) results. He uses the statistical method of comparing identical and fraternal twins to demonstrate that genetics accounts for twice the variation in exam achievement than different schools. Plomin is keen to stress that individual genes effects are very very tiny, this is a 'whole genome' comparison. Interviewed for BBC radio's Life Scientific : http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06j1qts http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06j1qts "In 1995 Plomin launched the biggest longitudinal twin study in the UK, the TED study of ten thousand pairs of twins which continues to this day. In this study and in his other work, he's shown consistently that genetic influences on intelligence are highly significant, much more so than what school you go to, your teachers or home environment. If only the genetic differences between children were fully acknowledged, he believes education could be transformed and parents might stop giving themselves such a hard time."

by ascotan 10y ago

sdiepend 10y ago

When the sun goes up, it's easier to do your work or job. So people get to work and cause traffic jams.

timeu 10y ago

Correct me if I am wrong, but I though the chopstick gene example has more to do with population structure confounding than with the heritability of the trait? For example one could make a similar example with malaria resistance and skin color.

nabla9 10y ago

>My results imply that natural selection has been slowly favoring lower EA in both females and males lower educational attainment, not higher see: GWAS of 126,559 Individuals Identifies Genetic Variants Associated with Educational Attainment (one of the authors is Beauchamp) http://science.sciencemag.org/content/340/6139/1467 http://science.sciencemag.org/content/340/6139/1467 >Three independent single-nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) are genome-wide significant (rs9320913, rs11584700, rs4851266), and all three replicate. Estimated effects sizes are small (coefficient of determination R2 ≈ 0.02%), approximately 1 month of schooling per allele. A linear polygenic score from all measured SNPs accounts for ≈2% of the variance in both educational attainment and cognitive function

ralfd 10y ago
So ... less educated people are getting more kids? (or the inverse: more educated people are getting less kids)
- toasterlovin 10y ago
  Yeah, this should be the case just based on the logistics involved. Higher education typically takes place during the years when a woman is able to have children. And to go a step further: generally people obtain higher education for a purpose: to further a career. So, then, after schooling is over, there will be a career to make, further reducing the number of years available for a woman to have children. So this should be the case based on practical matters alone.
ascotan 10y ago
Sorry but these types of studies strongly smack of eugenics. This reminds of Stephen Jay Gould's book "The mismeasure of a man". If the SNPs are inherited (and possibly racially so) and a lower educational attainment should be associated with a lack of native intelligence, can we then conclude from this study that certain groups have a lower IQ and therefore are genetically pre-disposed to have less educational attainment? Can we test for these people in the general population and prevent them from breeding? Are these SNPs associated with criminal propensities or mental issues and therefore correlate with a lack of educational attainment? We could then identify them and drill holes in their heads: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy Science is littered with shoddy peer accepted studies correlating IQ with genetics. This seems to be the 21st century version.

mirimir 10y ago

> What the author is implying here is that there is a gene for 'educational attainment' that is becoming more common in the population in general due to selection pressure. No, actually, he finds that there was negative selection pressure on educational attainment. Edit: You beat me, nabla9 ;)

CPLX 10y ago

The sun clearly does have a causal relationship with traffic, as traffic is exclusively the product of humans who are not sleeping, and is powered by the decayed products of photosynthesis. You may wish to choose a better example. Also the study is apparently proposing that natural selection is favoring low educational achievement. This, not incidentally, is the fundamental premise of the movie Idiocracy, and certainly has a plausible logic to it, though I am wholly unqualified to judge the methodology of this study.

deepnet 10y ago

Robert Plomin has proved a genetic influence for UK A-Level (exam) results. He uses the statistical method of comparing identical and fraternal twins to demonstrate that genetics accounts for twice the variation in exam achievement than different schools. Plomin is keen to stress that individual genes effects are very very tiny, this is a 'whole genome' comparison. Interviewed for BBC radio's Life Scientific : http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06j1qts http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06j1qts "In 1995 Plomin launched the biggest longitudinal twin study in the UK, the TED study of ten thousand pairs of twins which continues to this day. In this study and in his other work, he's shown consistently that genetic influences on intelligence are highly significant, much more so than what school you go to, your teachers or home environment. If only the genetic differences between children were fully acknowledged, he believes education could be transformed and parents might stop giving themselves such a hard time."