8 ms·

Austria: The up-and-coming early-stage investment capital of europe

45 points by mherrmann 10y ago

jkot 10y ago
It would be hard to attract talent in Austria. Brno is real startup hub in that region.
- atmosx 10y ago
  Brno? Startup hub? A city where no one speaks English and foreigners are treated bad by locals can not be compared to a multi-cultural city as Vienna. I studied in Brno and I have friends working at AT&T and IBM. They even have a ruby group meetup.. But a startup hub??? No.
  - smcl 10y ago
    It's certainly not a startup hub yet, but you're absolutely wrong about nobody speaking english and foreigners being treated badly by locals. I don't know what problems you had when you were here, but I'd be willing to bet that either you were extremely unlucky and had a couple of really bad experiences (can happen anywhere) or you're overreacting.
    - atmosx 10y ago
      hm, no. Most foreigners I know (and I knew a lot as I happened to organize events among other things) have the exact same view.
      - smcl 10y ago
        Agree to disagree. But what you describe is absolutely not what me (foreigner) and my foreign friends and colleagues have experienced.
- codecamper 10y ago
  Agreed! Brno would be an awesome place to make a startup. Cheap, good talent, lovely old town, and near the nature.
badlogic 10y ago
Apart from missing venture capital, the biggest hurdle for a flurishing startup ecosystem is of a cultural nature. Failure is still somewhat of a taboo in Austria. Risk aversity is taught from an early age on in most households. That being said, things are starting to move a little. Small hubs develop around universities in Vienna/Graz/Linz, with regular meetups for networking. Much of it is in its infancy, and attending those events sometimes feels like being in a badly acted version of Silicon Valley. But it's still better than not having them.
geff82 10y ago
You don't want to pay the ultra-high taxes and social security in Austria. While corporate taxes are ok, they went berserk with personal income.
- geff82 10y ago
  If you make a decent salary, expect a hard 50% to go to the state. No reduction for marriage or children.
  - pvitz 10y ago
    The 50% tax rate is a marginal tax rate. If you would earn e.g. 100.000 EUR per year, you would pay about 39% (tax plus social security). 200.000 EUR per year -> 42% (tax plus social security) totally. This calculation was done for an employee, not for the employer. Also, there are things like child support, tax credit and allowances as well as social security benefits. In the best case, you will not need to pay for health insurance for your children till the age of about 24 and so on...
  - stewbrew 10y ago
    Do have children? You get family support for each child. You get money for child care (Kinderbetreueungsgeld) for at least 1 year. You get affordable child care (kindergarten) starting from 1.5 yrs (at least in Vienna).
- mherrmann 10y ago
  If you live in Vienna you do however get to enjoy the highest quality of life in the world [1]. And not just this year either. Vienna has kept the title as the best city to live in for several years. Also, you don't have to pay hundreds of thousands of $ to send your kids to college. 1: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/23/vienna-named-worlds-top-city-for-quality-of-life https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/23/vienna-name...
  - atmosx 10y ago
    Vienna is outstanding. Just by living there you achieved a "high quality" life. You can move around with a Bike, the food is amazing if you know where to look, the city is vibrating, full of events and happenings and sightscenes, open concerts and people are amazing :-)
kbody 10y ago
So it's Austria this week? I thought it was Norway last week.
lazyjones 10y ago
I live in Austria, founded (and sold) a company years ago and have invested in 2 startups (6 figure each) - and I believe this is a misleading PR article. Austria has lackluster, under-funded universities, unattractive tax rules for companies and higher-paid employees and the country is dropping in most competitiveness, growth rankings that matter for startups. Infrastructure is good, but hiring good developers e.g. is very difficult because salaries are both low and burdened with high taxation, so they look elsewhere. Personally, I wouldn't found another company in Austria. There are many better places in the EU, Ireland is probably the best option right now.
- the_mitsuhiko 10y ago
  > Austria has lackluster, under-funded universities, unattractive tax rules for companies and higher-paid employees and the country is dropping in most competitiveness, growth rankings that matter for startups. Correct. However I think the hope of many here is that it's going to change now.
  - nice__two 10y ago
    Not with this traditional socialist/conservative government keeping everything it's always been. And let's not hope the FPÖ takes over! They've fucked up good back when they had a chance. With their corruption and strong association with the industrial's association (Industriellenvereinigung), they are more interested in not helping start-ups than any other party.
    - the_mitsuhiko 10y ago
      In case you missed it things are already changing. It would be nice if Neos would get support but they will not largely because the population values stability and conservatism. Politics can't change that.
      - lazyjones 10y ago
        Nothing at all has changed. The new chancellor is just trying a new spin to attract younger voters again and part of it is positioning Austria somehow as an attractive country for startups (while at the same time discussing a "machine tax" to please marxist voters). I don't know if paid articles in various magazines are part of the campaign.
the_mitsuhiko 10y ago
Traditionally Austria has many problems with founding of startups. In particular the culture does not embrace failure, the social security net is ridiculously tight and rewards people who do not work a bit too much, the taxes are high and the rules and regulations are strict. None of that is new however. What is new is that for the first time in a long time this has been acknowledged as a problem and it would appear that the ones in charge are genuine about wanting to change this. Taxation wise I think it would be nice to improve things a bit but if you do the math a fully insured person in California will have to deliver a similar percentage of their income to the state so I think this is mostly a marketing problem than an actual issue. We will see how this goes. In the last few years many of my friends and collegues when to the states and I really wish that some of that talent will eventually come back. There is a lot that is wrong in Austria but the quality of living is great and at one point in life this matters a lot.
- curiouslurker 10y ago
  Here's one of Austria's most famous exports. Arnold's 6 Rules for Success: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RQO_OoNASU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RQO_OoNASU Surely it can't have been too bad for him!
- superuser2 10y ago
  >rewards people who do not work Why would this be a problem for startups? Demand for low-wage labor (i.e. people for whom the social safety net yields similar quality of life to the jobs they can access) is certainly a hallmark of traditional small businesses but does not seem particularly common among startups.
codecamper 10y ago
Vienna! ha ha ha. You better have some VC if you want to afford that kaffe. I was there for a few days earlier this year & felt like I was getting fleeced at every turn. What is the point? About 30 minutes drive you come to Bratislava. They have the Euro, they have the more affordable everything.. including old slavic roots who kick some serious butt at everything programming & math related. Nice parks though.
- smcl 10y ago
  Was it just garden-variety tourist fleecing, or did you head outside the city centre? Vienna's definitely pricier than Bratislava and Brno, but I've never found it to be outrageous. Also since both of those cities are so close I don't think it's out of the question to be based in either and seek funding/investment in Vienna is it?
  - codecamper 10y ago
    It was just inside the center. A few others said this to me. I've travelled to Morocco and felt insulted at being constantly ripped off because I was a tourist. Well, now I know it doesn't happen just in Morocco.
    - smcl 10y ago
      Ok I think we are talking about different things. I'm just saying that in a western city popular with tourists (think Paris, NY, London, Dublin) things like accommodation, drinks and food will be pricier. Sounds like you're meaning something different, which I haven't experienced
- the_mitsuhiko 10y ago
  > felt like I was getting fleeced at every turn. On what? I never noticed Vienna as an expensive place for anything other than maybe housing.
ZenoArrow 10y ago
I can't remember who said it, but I remember someone saying there was one question you should ask yourself when reading any news story... Why am I reading about this now? In other words, for what purposes is this story being shared right now? I'm not suggesting there's a conspiracy behind every story, and there are often benign explanations that can coexist with dramatic ones. What I am suggesting is that question is a vital one for seeing through media spin, regardless of whether it's intentional or unintentional.

45 points by mherrmann 10y ago

jkot 10y ago

It would be hard to attract talent in Austria. Brno is real startup hub in that region.

atmosx 10y ago
Brno? Startup hub? A city where no one speaks English and foreigners are treated bad by locals can not be compared to a multi-cultural city as Vienna. I studied in Brno and I have friends working at AT&T and IBM. They even have a ruby group meetup.. But a startup hub??? No.
- smcl 10y ago
  It's certainly not a startup hub yet, but you're absolutely wrong about nobody speaking english and foreigners being treated badly by locals. I don't know what problems you had when you were here, but I'd be willing to bet that either you were extremely unlucky and had a couple of really bad experiences (can happen anywhere) or you're overreacting.
  - atmosx 10y ago
    hm, no. Most foreigners I know (and I knew a lot as I happened to organize events among other things) have the exact same view.
    - smcl 10y ago
      Agree to disagree. But what you describe is absolutely not what me (foreigner) and my foreign friends and colleagues have experienced.
codecamper 10y ago
Agreed! Brno would be an awesome place to make a startup. Cheap, good talent, lovely old town, and near the nature.

badlogic 10y ago

Apart from missing venture capital, the biggest hurdle for a flurishing startup ecosystem is of a cultural nature. Failure is still somewhat of a taboo in Austria. Risk aversity is taught from an early age on in most households. That being said, things are starting to move a little. Small hubs develop around universities in Vienna/Graz/Linz, with regular meetups for networking. Much of it is in its infancy, and attending those events sometimes feels like being in a badly acted version of Silicon Valley. But it's still better than not having them.

geff82 10y ago

You don't want to pay the ultra-high taxes and social security in Austria. While corporate taxes are ok, they went berserk with personal income.

geff82 10y ago
If you make a decent salary, expect a hard 50% to go to the state. No reduction for marriage or children.
- pvitz 10y ago
  The 50% tax rate is a marginal tax rate. If you would earn e.g. 100.000 EUR per year, you would pay about 39% (tax plus social security). 200.000 EUR per year -> 42% (tax plus social security) totally. This calculation was done for an employee, not for the employer. Also, there are things like child support, tax credit and allowances as well as social security benefits. In the best case, you will not need to pay for health insurance for your children till the age of about 24 and so on...
- stewbrew 10y ago
  Do have children? You get family support for each child. You get money for child care (Kinderbetreueungsgeld) for at least 1 year. You get affordable child care (kindergarten) starting from 1.5 yrs (at least in Vienna).
mherrmann 10y ago
If you live in Vienna you do however get to enjoy the highest quality of life in the world [1]. And not just this year either. Vienna has kept the title as the best city to live in for several years. Also, you don't have to pay hundreds of thousands of $ to send your kids to college. 1: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/23/vienna-named-worlds-top-city-for-quality-of-life https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/23/vienna-name...
- atmosx 10y ago
  Vienna is outstanding. Just by living there you achieved a "high quality" life. You can move around with a Bike, the food is amazing if you know where to look, the city is vibrating, full of events and happenings and sightscenes, open concerts and people are amazing :-)

kbody 10y ago

So it's Austria this week? I thought it was Norway last week.

lazyjones 10y ago

I live in Austria, founded (and sold) a company years ago and have invested in 2 startups (6 figure each) - and I believe this is a misleading PR article. Austria has lackluster, under-funded universities, unattractive tax rules for companies and higher-paid employees and the country is dropping in most competitiveness, growth rankings that matter for startups. Infrastructure is good, but hiring good developers e.g. is very difficult because salaries are both low and burdened with high taxation, so they look elsewhere. Personally, I wouldn't found another company in Austria. There are many better places in the EU, Ireland is probably the best option right now.

the_mitsuhiko 10y ago
> Austria has lackluster, under-funded universities, unattractive tax rules for companies and higher-paid employees and the country is dropping in most competitiveness, growth rankings that matter for startups. Correct. However I think the hope of many here is that it's going to change now.
- nice__two 10y ago
  Not with this traditional socialist/conservative government keeping everything it's always been. And let's not hope the FPÖ takes over! They've fucked up good back when they had a chance. With their corruption and strong association with the industrial's association (Industriellenvereinigung), they are more interested in not helping start-ups than any other party.
  - the_mitsuhiko 10y ago
    In case you missed it things are already changing. It would be nice if Neos would get support but they will not largely because the population values stability and conservatism. Politics can't change that.
    - lazyjones 10y ago
      Nothing at all has changed. The new chancellor is just trying a new spin to attract younger voters again and part of it is positioning Austria somehow as an attractive country for startups (while at the same time discussing a "machine tax" to please marxist voters). I don't know if paid articles in various magazines are part of the campaign.

the_mitsuhiko 10y ago

Traditionally Austria has many problems with founding of startups. In particular the culture does not embrace failure, the social security net is ridiculously tight and rewards people who do not work a bit too much, the taxes are high and the rules and regulations are strict. None of that is new however. What is new is that for the first time in a long time this has been acknowledged as a problem and it would appear that the ones in charge are genuine about wanting to change this. Taxation wise I think it would be nice to improve things a bit but if you do the math a fully insured person in California will have to deliver a similar percentage of their income to the state so I think this is mostly a marketing problem than an actual issue. We will see how this goes. In the last few years many of my friends and collegues when to the states and I really wish that some of that talent will eventually come back. There is a lot that is wrong in Austria but the quality of living is great and at one point in life this matters a lot.

curiouslurker 10y ago
Here's one of Austria's most famous exports. Arnold's 6 Rules for Success: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RQO_OoNASU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RQO_OoNASU Surely it can't have been too bad for him!
superuser2 10y ago
>rewards people who do not work Why would this be a problem for startups? Demand for low-wage labor (i.e. people for whom the social safety net yields similar quality of life to the jobs they can access) is certainly a hallmark of traditional small businesses but does not seem particularly common among startups.

codecamper 10y ago

Vienna! ha ha ha. You better have some VC if you want to afford that kaffe. I was there for a few days earlier this year & felt like I was getting fleeced at every turn. What is the point? About 30 minutes drive you come to Bratislava. They have the Euro, they have the more affordable everything.. including old slavic roots who kick some serious butt at everything programming & math related. Nice parks though.

smcl 10y ago
Was it just garden-variety tourist fleecing, or did you head outside the city centre? Vienna's definitely pricier than Bratislava and Brno, but I've never found it to be outrageous. Also since both of those cities are so close I don't think it's out of the question to be based in either and seek funding/investment in Vienna is it?
- codecamper 10y ago
  It was just inside the center. A few others said this to me. I've travelled to Morocco and felt insulted at being constantly ripped off because I was a tourist. Well, now I know it doesn't happen just in Morocco.
  - smcl 10y ago
    Ok I think we are talking about different things. I'm just saying that in a western city popular with tourists (think Paris, NY, London, Dublin) things like accommodation, drinks and food will be pricier. Sounds like you're meaning something different, which I haven't experienced
the_mitsuhiko 10y ago
> felt like I was getting fleeced at every turn. On what? I never noticed Vienna as an expensive place for anything other than maybe housing.

ZenoArrow 10y ago

I can't remember who said it, but I remember someone saying there was one question you should ask yourself when reading any news story... Why am I reading about this now? In other words, for what purposes is this story being shared right now? I'm not suggesting there's a conspiracy behind every story, and there are often benign explanations that can coexist with dramatic ones. What I am suggesting is that question is a vital one for seeing through media spin, regardless of whether it's intentional or unintentional.