4 ms·
I never paid much attention to the details of the Madoff case but I think people on the internet throw out the "sociopath" label way too freely. Not much is ga
by tps5 10y ago
I never paid much attention to the details of the Madoff case but I think people on the internet throw out the "sociopath" label way too freely.
Not much is gained from that label, in my opinion. And I certainly wouldn't apply it to Bernie Madoff or Holmes based on what I know of their situations.
- scott_s 10y agoI use the word because, based on his actions, I think he does not have empathy for other people. He knowingly defrauded thousands of people, often depleting all of their savings. The scale of his fraud, and the length of time he perpetuated it, is staggering.
- FireBeyond 10y agoRight, empathy or sympathy would have meant that among other options, in his continued lies to investors, "We made a very bad trade, got into Company X, who went bankrupt / were delisted". He could have shut it down. He chose not to.
- Dylan16807 10y agoBrains don't handle scale well. Defrauding a thousand people can be easier empathy-wise than defrauding a single person, because it's a statistic rather than an individual. You cannot use the total scale in trying to judge whether someone has empathy. The impulse to associate 'bad actions' with 'inherently bad people' can make it harder for people to realize when they are acting badly and to pull out. http://www.npr.org/2012/05/01/151764534/psychology-of-fraud-why-good-people-do-bad-things http://www.npr.org/2012/05/01/151764534/psychology-of-fraud-...
- wmil 10y agoMadoff was quite unusual because he was very actively involved in the upperclass Jewish philanthropic community. It's also where most of his victims came from. That's one of the reasons he was able to get away with it for so long. People assumed that he wouldn't steal from members of his own community like that. So most observers assumed he found a way to front run trades on his other funds without getting caught, and were looking for evidence of that.
- gnaritas 10y ago> but I think people on the internet throw out the "sociopath" label way too freely. Not an argument. > And I certainly wouldn't apply it to Bernie Madoff or Holmes based on what I know of their situations. Not an argument. If you're going to disagree with someone, generally, some logic as to why is useful, not just "I don't agree". Madoff certainly deserves that label, he ruined lives by running the biggest investment scam in history: he clearly didn't in any way care about what happened to those other people, completely lacking in empathy, they were used and discarded.
- oldmanjay 10y agoWhat definition of "sociopath" are you using here? How do you third-hand diagnose a man as completely lacking in empathy? Can we somehow use this skill for good instead of boring internet commentary?
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- gnaritas 10y agoI'm not third hand diagnosing anyone, I'm not diagnosing anyone, and I'm not the one who even brought up the term sociopath as I'm not the OP; I simply said he deserves the label given what he's done. So if you're bored, feel free to go somewhere else.
- Dylan16807 10y agoDeclaring that someone must clearly have no empathy because they hurt people they didn't even know is also not an argument.
- gnaritas 10y agoActually it is an argument as that's one of the defining characteristics of the condition, it's not a great argument because I don't know how he feels, but it's more than just "I disagree" which is no argument at all. In any case, I'm not the OP, I didn't call him a sociopath, I merely said he deserved the label.
- auggierose 10y agoI don't know, his investors were mostly rich people wanting to get richer. I don't feel empathy for those people either.